EIA data shows ongoing trend of rising CO2 emissions

Via GCC:

EIA data shows ongoing trend of rising CO2 emissions from energy consumption after several years of decreases

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http://www.greencarcongress.com/2014/09/20140929-eia.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Pretty much what you'd expect from an economy coming out of recession.

Global CO2 emissions are no longer dominated by the U.S.:

My guess is that they never will be in the future, either.

RegGuheert said:

Global CO2 emissions are no longer dominated by the U.S.

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"Everyone else is doing it, therefore it's okay for us to do it too."

Most people leave that kind of reasoning behind when they graduate from elementary school :roll:
=Smidge=

Smidge204 said:

"Everyone else is doing it, therefore it's okay for us to do it too."

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Think that if you must.

My point is that if you REALLY care about global CO2 emissions, then focusing on only the U.S. emissions makes very little sense.

But CO2 is proving to not be the boogie man many here make it out to be. Let's focus on real pollution instead.

RegGuheert said:

My point is that if you REALLY care about global CO2 emissions, then focusing on only the U.S. emissions makes very little sense.

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AKA "Everyone else is doing it..."

There is little we can do to influence another country's behavior unless and until we get our own act together. We can set a good example by reducing our own emissions, and then we will have the moral high-ground necessary to pressure others to follow suit.

"Do as I say, not as I do" is another attitude unbefitting a mature adult. We need to lead by example.
=Smidge=

Smidge204 said:

RegGuheert said:

My point is that if you REALLY care about global CO2 emissions, then focusing on only the U.S. emissions makes very little sense.

Click to expand...

AKA "Everyone else is doing it..."

"Do as I say, not as I do" is another attitude unbefitting a mature adult. We need to lead by example.

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Still trying to put words in my mouth? I didn't say that, either.

RegGuheert said:

Global CO2 emissions are no longer dominated by the U.S.:
My guess is that they never will be in the future, either.

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For extra-credit, make the same graph on a per-capita basis. Our only competition is smaller countries like Canada, Australia and the Middle-Eastern states. I guess its an 'anglo-sphere' problem mostly.

The point is that it makes little sense to say "US CO2 emissions have been decreasing" when we have been offshoring our manufacturing operations to China and India for decades. So does it really make sense to count China's and India's emissions growth as somehow THEIR emissions? Perhaps one would do that if you want to feel better about how we are doing. But that doesn't change the situation.

RegGuheert said:

Still trying to put words in my mouth? I didn't say that, either.

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I think you're being obtuse.

Your position is that we should do something about China's emissions, yes? Otherwise "focusing on only the U.S. emissions makes very little sense" (a direct quote). So how do you propose to do that?

I propose we do that by setting an example, because simply pressuring them will be ineffective unless we show our own willingness and ability to reduce OUR emissions as well. In other words, don't have America be the "Do as I say, not as I do" guy.

If you have another suggestion for how the US can get countries like China to control their emissions without the legitimacy of taking action ourselves, I'd love to hear it. Economic sanctions perhaps? Trade restrictions? Military action? What do you think?
=Smidge=

RegGuheert said:

The point is that it makes little sense to say "US CO2 emissions have been decreasing" when we have been offshoring our manufacturing operations to China and India for decades. So does it really make sense to count China's and India's emissions growth as somehow THEIR emissions? Perhaps one would do that if you want to feel better about how we are doing. But that doesn't change the situation.

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Despite offshoring of heavy manufacturing, we still have higher per capita emission than China.

I still think if we want to go the 'fairness angle' per capita rather than per country emissions seem like a more appropriate basis. (We could just plot California or Ohio and say its tiny compared to China, so 'it all good.')

On that basis, we and the EU have similar lifestyles and expectations for energy services, yet the US average per capita CO2 is 2x the Eu rate per capita. Why? Does that not imply that we could reduce ours close to 50% without a significant impact/cost to quality of life.

Similarly, CA has much lower per capita home energy usage than the rest of the US....as a result of public policy. Does that not imply that the rest of the US could adopt more stringent codes without making housing hopelessly unaffordable?

China is still increasing it per capita emissions as it develops. They are likely to asymptote their standard of living to that of the EU/US according to the standard curve (defined by Japan and Korea). When they reach our standard of living, should they have US per capita emissions or EU per capita emissions?? That factor of 2 will matter! If their per capita is the same as ours, what will we be able to say about it then??