Lowest possible range in very cold weather?

What is the lowest range I can expect in the coldest conditions? I have a 30 mile commute one way, and will be installing a Level 2 charger at my business and home.

If it was cold enough in Antarctica, the battery might freeze and your range would be zero... Seriously though, without any parameters as to location, temperature range there, etc., it is impossible to answer your question.

aldamar said:

What is the lowest range I can expect in the coldest conditions? I have a 30 mile commute one way, and will be installing a Level 2 charger at my business and home.

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I think that a big sapper of energy in really cold weather is the defroster/defogger. If you need to run that for a considerable time to be able to see well enough to drive, it can zap some of your already limited cold weather range.

If you are able to pre-condition your car while plugged in at work and/or at home, that would be a big help.

Nissan has said 50 miles, I dont recall anyone getting less (in this forum) this past winter.. but you can always pre-heat the car both at home and at work.. and always charge to 100%

I don't know if very cold vs cold enough makes a huge difference, but the lowest I've gotten 45 mile range in the winter months (30-40 degree) with freeway driving at 65 mph and climate on.

Lots and lots of threads on this. We need more info from YOU !!!! Or, you can plug your route into the iPhone/iPad app "LEAF Energy"

Where are you? Where are you traveling from and to ? Generally speaking, two things affect your range; battery capacity and heater use. How much heater is up to you, and battery capacity can be manipulated by keeping the battery as warm as possible (in a warmer garage, or some type of heater on the battery itself). Note: the battery heater on the car (if equipped) does not improve range.

Preheating the car while still plugged in is critical for maximum range.

Here's a thread to read up on:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=167334#p167334" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here is some more information. I live 29 miles from work, where I am installing a GE Wattstation L2 charger, the same one I will be installing in my unheated garage at home. The car will be outside at work . I plan on charging to either 80% or 100% at each location, every day. I'm reasonably certain that I will never run out of battery power to cover the trip both ways, since the battery will always be charged to either 80% or 100% (not sure which level I should charge to). My wife never drives without cabin temps in our car being as close to room temperature as possible, say 68 degrees. I plan on pre-heating or pre-cooling off the grid at both locations. Driving to work consists of 20 miles of back country roads at speeds of approximately 40 mph, and 10 miles of almost always heavily congested I95 traffic for the remainder of the trip, another 10 miles. If there is no traffic, we drive around 60 mph on I95. We live in Connecticut, where 3 months of the year early morning temps can be as low as 0-10 degrees, although during this past winter we averaged lows of around 25 degrees during the winter months.

Two questions:

1. Why charge to 80%, and what happens if you charge to 100%?

2. How much range,approximately, will I have remaining when I get to work, with outside temps starting in the low digits and not getting above high teens by the time we reach work?

My wife is very concerned with range issues, and feels we might get stuck without making it to work, I know there are many factors that will influence our typical range in such cold conditions, but I'm just looking for ball park estimates here and trying to assuage her anxiety.

Thanks

I would suggest to wait for 2013 model, the heater improvements and faster charging should eliminate or at least reduce worries in colder climates.

IBELEAF said:

I would suggest to wait for 2013 model, the heater improvements and faster charging should eliminate or at least reduce worries in colder climates.

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Maybe, but my gut feel is that he's well within the capabilities of even the 2012 model.

He's not going to be pushing highway speeds for more than 10 out of a 20 mile commute each way and will have the opportunity to pre-heat at both ends. Assuming he doesn't have a 4 hour work-day even charging at 3.3kW is going to get him back up to 100% even at work.

29 miles even in extreme cold is not going to be an issue even on a 80% charge with pre-heating. Even without preheating, you can figure that the most the HVAC system will draw is about 5kW. The only time cold will be an issue is if your commute takes 2+ hours with the heater blasting the whole way. I expect you to get home with at least 2 bars remaining - probably 3-4 most of the time.

Waiting for the 2013 w/the more efficient heat-pump will will extend cold weather range. But for your situation where you're able charge at work I don't expect you to have any issues.

aldamar said:

1. Why charge to 80%, and what happens if you charge to 100%?

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It's better for battery longevity. Best not to let the car sit at 100% charged for an extended period of time. What "extended period of time" is probably somewhat of a religious issue, but my philosophy is simply if you don't need 100% charge, don't charge to 100%. I suspect you'll be fine to charge to 80% on all but the very coldest days (and even then you'll probably be okay). But if you charge to 100% as a precaution you'll probably be okay provided you don't let the car sit for more than 12-24 hours at the charge level.

aldamar said:

2. How much range,approximately, will I have remaining when I get to work, with outside temps starting in the low digits and not getting above high teens by the time we reach work?

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I suspect you'll have enough buffer. But of course for the first 2 weeks as you're getting used to eco-driving and the fact that the battery gauge drops rapidly compared to a gas gauge you'll suffer some range anxiety. But that will vanish quickly as you'll get a good feel for exactly how much power your drive consumes in various conditions. My wife and I can pretty easily predict how many bars we'll consume on her commute each day depending on temperature and road conditions.

In her case she has a 30 mile round trip commute. No charging or pre-heating at work for her. So it's a tad different than each leg of your commute (the difference being that she gets into a cold car at mile 15, whereas at mile 15 yours is already warm). Granted, we live in NC, not CT. Winter-time temps this winter were high 30's at the coldest this year. Even so, we charged to 80% (with pre-heating in the morning, so maybe boosted to about 85% or so) and she usually had enough range when she got home that I could make the trip a second time at night (I had a weekly meeting to go to at her workplace). I really think you're well within the capabilities of the LEAF here.

29 miles each way with charging at both ends? Total piece of cake! You should be able to drive like a maniac and blast the heater, and still make it.

Driving home from my annual battery check at the dealer, I did 31 miles with five thousand feet of climbing (4600' net elevation gain), up to my mountain home. Drove faster than usual (65-70 on the freeway, 40-45 up the mountain) while blasting the A/C and used 66% of a charge. Even in cold weather I could have done it.

abasile said:

29 miles each way with charging at both ends? Total piece of cake! You should be able to drive like a maniac and blast the heater, and still make it.

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Absolutely true. Don't wait for a 2013, because you do not need either the more efficient heater or faster AC charger (and you don't need the DC fast charger available on 2011-12 models).

You will be the envy of all your workmates as you ALWAYS jump into a fueled up, cooled / heated car. And you'll be operating it for 10 to 20 cents on the dollar of what they are.

Waiting only means more expensive gasoline (by USA standards with some of the cheapest gas in the world!!!) being burnt. Start saving today!

Yes, you'll be able to use 80% "long life" charging except for MAYBE the most cold, snow covered highways.

Easy, easy, EASY !!!!

I have a similar commute of about 55 miles total, and general consensus was if I pre-heated and then relied on seat and steering wheel heating and avoided the highways, I could probably make it there and back as long as I charged to 100%. The return trip would be very cold since I wouldn't have the opportunity to pre-heat.

I was able to get management to install an outside plug (120V) which isn't as good as 240V, but I'll take what they can give me. 8 hours on 120V should get me back up to 100% before I have to leave. That makes the commute in the worst conditions absolutely no problem.

I would expect worst case scenario to be around 40 miles (max heat, heated seats, heated steering wheel, driving 80MPH on the highway... through snow..., with sub-zero temperatures). Most people who own a LEAF are in warm weather states, and ,ost people who own a LEAF in cold-weather states don't have long commutes, so availability of consistent and repeatable range data isn't really available for ultra-cold conditions.

Here in North Carolina, obviously, it doesn't get as cold as your location, but I am doing a nearly 40 mile round trip without charging at work, no problem, even when it was 18F outside. With the ability to charge at work and the speeds you talk about you are going to be just fine.

Glad to see another potential Leafer in CT.

We first got our leaf @ the end of Jan this year. My wife has a 42 mile round trip with some pretty steep hills. Even with heat/defrost on and no eco mode she can make it with miles to spare. If you have a charge at both work and home, then 29 miles should be easy.

However, if you want longer range for other trips, you may want to wait for the 2013 with the improved heater.

Good luck!

I'll be the voice of dissent here and say it depends. Sub-freezing temps, high humidity, liberal heat+defrost usage, and sporty+interstate driving will bring mileage below 2%/mile. I actually did it a couple times last year as a test of how low it could go, and both times I was below 35 miles from 80% to low battery warning. On the other hand, in the same conditions I could lay off the heat, use defrost only when needed, drive like I normally do, and avoid the interstate and get quite a bit more mileage, so 60 miles from 100% in very cold+humid weather is doable with my experience, but requires some moderation of heat and reasonably smooth driving. I definitely would not try that on 80% though. Not from what I've seen. And you'd likely benefit from the 2013 heater, if it's as much of an improvement as I hope.



*EDIT* - reading comprehension is your friend. Charging at both ends? That's nowhere near a problem then

defiancecp said:

*EDIT* - reading comprehension is your friend. Charging at both ends? That's nowhere near a problem then

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Yeah, I read your post as saying that even in sub-freezing temps, high humidity, liberal heat+defog usage, sporty/interstate driving AND charging only to 80% he's still not even going to get to LBW by the time he reaches work. The only thing missing is an analysis of exactly how much range degradation he'll see after 8 years of this driving.

I think your post is as good an endorsement as I've seen here that he should proceed with his plan to get a LEAF!