Newbie battery question - Leased in 2015 - considering buying it in Apr 2018

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All4Leaf

Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2017
Messages
11
Location
Hillsboro, Oregon
Hi all,

Newbie from Pacific Northwest here - I never lease a vehicle but based on special rates provided by my local Nissan dealer and no gas expense per month, I opted for leasing 2015 Nissan Leaf S (base model with quick charger option). The car this Leaf replaced used to cost me about $120 per month in gas alone; never mind scheduled maintenance, etc. I got the Leaf for $199 per month. The residual value is quite reasonable.
I am considering buying the car in Apr 2018 instead of lease return. I charge my Leaf every night with trickle charge/110V home outlet. The battery when fully charged after two and half years, still gets ~104 miles range.

Now that I have given some background - considering the vast experience of owners on this forum, my question is if I buy this 2015 Leaf that has about ~26000 miles on it and my average of ~12000 miles per year drive, how long should I expect the current battery to last before I need to purchase a new battery?

In case if I need to put this question somewhere else on this forum, please do point me in that direction.

Thanks,
 
In your climate it could be usable for ten years or more - it depends on how much range you need. The 2015 battery is the best that Nissan has ever made. If you like the car, then buying it will give you the best return on your investment - again, if the range is more than adequate. You might want to find someone who can check the remaining capacity with LeafSpy.
 
LeftieBiker said:
In your climate it could be usable for ten years or more - it depends on how much range you need. The 2015 battery is the best that Nissan has ever made. If you like the car, then buying it will give you the best return on your investment - again, if the range is more than adequate. You might want to find someone who can check the remaining capacity with LeafSpy.

Thank you for the quick reply LeftieBiker - could you please clariy "check the remaining capacity" - does this mean checking if the battery is still 24kWh?

Thanks,
 
Incredible that you are getting 104 miles of range! I'm guessing most of your driving is done through relatively flat terrain and at lower speeds.

Being a PNW LEAF, it's probably still > 95% state of health (SOH in LeafSpy). It's hard to estimate battery degredation, as there are so many variables, but you'll likely lose the first capacity bar sometime in 2020. Five years from now, your best range might be 70 miles, based on your current driving. The vast majority of Leaf owners would be thrilled to have that kind of range from what will then be a 7 year old LEAF.

In your shoes, I would drive it until a used EV with better range becomes more affordable. That's my plan, likely my next EV will be a Bolt or perhaps a used 2018 LEAF.
 
All4Leaf said:
LeftieBiker said:
In your climate it could be usable for ten years or more - it depends on how much range you need. The 2015 battery is the best that Nissan has ever made. If you like the car, then buying it will give you the best return on your investment - again, if the range is more than adequate. You might want to find someone who can check the remaining capacity with LeafSpy.

Thank you for the quick reply LeftieBiker - could you please clariy "check the remaining capacity" - does this mean checking if the battery is still 24kWh?

Thanks,

More or less. Nissan EV batteries are notorious for degrading over time - especially in hotter climates, and especially the early ones. Those made after March of 2013 are better, but those made in 2015 only (called the "Lizard pack") are best. 2016 and 2017 packs once again degrade fast, especially in heat. LeafSpy is an app that uses a diagnostic port reader to interpret data from the Battery management System (BMS) to determine remaining capacity, among other things.
 
alozzy said:
Incredible that you are getting 104 miles of range! I'm guessing most of your driving is done through relatively flat terrain and at lower speeds.

Being a PNW LEAF, it's probably still > 95% state of health (SOH in LeafSpy). It's hard to estimate battery degredation, as there are so many variables, but you'll likely lose the first capacity bar sometime in 2020. Five years from now, your best range might be 70 miles, based on your current driving. The vast majority of Leaf owners would be thrilled to have that kind of range from what will then be a 7 year old LEAF.

In your shoes, I would drive it until a used EV with better range becomes more affordable. That's my plan, likely my next EV will be a Bolt or perhaps a used 2018 LEAF.

Alozzy,

I have been really happy with my 2015 Nissan Leaf S. I dont know much about electric batteries and their internals but here are some of the things that related to my driving and charging - dont know if any of them contributes to the range:

1. So far I have always charged my Leaf at home using 110V trickle charge.
2. My daily drive is about 36 miles
3. So far, because of my ignorance, I had been charging my battery full.I would put my car for charging at around 8:00pm and in the morning around 7:00am when I head out, it is already fully charged.
4. My commute is hilly especially in the morning, it is about 5 miles steep uphill followed by 6 miles downhill. Then it is pretty much flat 8 miles. On the way back, it is mostly flat 17 miles.
5. I am not exactly a very slow driver; pretty much on par with gas car drivers. Let's put it this way, no one complains I am slowing them down ;)

Based on some expert input I got on this forum, seems like the credit goes to the 2015 Leaf batteries.
I wish I had joined this forum earlier; if that were the case, I probably would have been doing the 80% charging.
Thank you for giving me some estimates - that really helps with my decisiion to buy this car.
 
brotherjethro said:
Where in PNW do you live? If you're near Vancouver, WA, I have LeafSpy and can help you understand the current state of your battery.

Thank you brotherjethro. I'm in Hillsboro, OR. Really appreciate your offer.
I am thinking about getting LeafSpy and would ask for your & others guidance on this forum.

Thanks,
 
joeriv said:
RE residual value: You might get significant discount off the residual value - don't hesitate to bargain.

Thank you. I've always bought cars and have never leased so any info I can get on saving money when I buy this leased car is much appreciated. It is great to know that residual value can be bargained. I will definitely give it my best.


Thanks,
 
FWIW, I'm guessing that Platt Auto would hookup an OBD2 dongle of theirs to your car and give you a Leaf Spy screenshot of the battery stats:

18720 SE McLoughlin Blvd, Portland, OR

About 45 minute drive each way from where you live, but worth it.

Or just buy an OBD2 dongle and DIY it :)
 
1. So far I have always charged my Leaf at home using 110V trickle charge.
2. My daily drive is about 36 miles
3. So far, because of my ignorance, I had been charging my battery full.I would put my car for charging at around 8:00pm and in the morning around 7:00am when I head out, it is already fully charged.
4. My commute is hilly especially in the morning, it is about 5 miles steep uphill followed by 6 miles downhill. Then it is pretty much flat 8 miles. On the way back, it is mostly flat 17 miles.
5. I am not exactly a very slow driver; pretty much on par with gas car drivers. Let's put it this way, no one complains I am slowing them down ;)

Based on some expert input I got on this forum, seems like the credit goes to the 2015 Leaf batteries.
I wish I had joined this forum earlier; if that were the case, I probably would have been doing the 80% charging.

Charging to 100% isn't a problem when you use the car within a few hours of the charge's completion - especially in cool, weather. You may want to avoid letting it sit at 100% in hotter weather, by setting the charge timer to finish an hour or two after you leave. This means the car won't be quite fully charged when you leave, but not far from it.
 
You should not feel guilty at all about charging to 100%. The trickle charger as no other choice than to do it overnight... You are charging the battery to the best possible manner....
 
Congratulations! You are in the catbird seat! The 2015 is a great vehicle for you and your environment. Your daily commute is perfect as well. You should get 10+ years out of it. I'm at 6.5 yr with my 2011 (a different battery that degraded more quickly than 2013+ batteries) and have had basically no problems. I'm expecting another 5-10 years. In your shoes, I would negotiate hard at the end of your lease (don't let them know that you really want to buy it) and then buy it. The 2015 is a great car with significant improvements over earlier models. In Portland, you would benefit from the heat pump that is in the SL or SV models, but other than that, the S+QC is an excellent, cost effective choice. In 2018 there will be many long range EVs available and you can pretend that you might need to switch. In the past few years Nissan has given significant incentives to buy vehicle at lease end. Who knows, maybe you'll get lucky.
 
powersurge said:
You should not feel guilty at all about charging to 100%. The trickle charger as no other choice than to do it overnight... You are charging the battery to the best possible manner....

Thank you Powersurge and Leftiebiker - not sure if this follow up question should be in this thread or different; but here goes.
So what I understand from you:

a) charging the battery to 80%
vs
b) 100% charge and start using the car in an hour or so

in the usual Pacific NW weather makes no difference. Did I get this right?

Thank you again for your advice.
 
Reddy said:
Congratulations! You are in the catbird seat! The 2015 is a great vehicle for you and your environment. Your daily commute is perfect as well. You should get 10+ years out of it. I'm at 6.5 yr with my 2011 (a different battery that degraded more quickly than 2013+ batteries) and have had basically no problems. I'm expecting another 5-10 years. In your shoes, I would negotiate hard at the end of your lease (don't let them know that you really want to buy it) and then buy it. The 2015 is a great car with significant improvements over earlier models. In Portland, you would benefit from the heat pump that is in the SL or SV models, but other than that, the S+QC is an excellent, cost effective choice. In 2018 there will be many long range EVs available and you can pretend that you might need to switch. In the past few years Nissan has given significant incentives to buy vehicle at lease end. Who knows, maybe you'll get lucky.

Thank you Reddy; I am planning on going ahead with buying this car. I have also found out that Nissan Finance is currently giving a $3500 discount of the residual value of the 3 year lease for 2015 Nissan Leaf S+QC .

Thanks,
 
All4Leaf said:
powersurge said:
You should not feel guilty at all about charging to 100%. The trickle charger as no other choice than to do it overnight... You are charging the battery to the best possible manner....

Thank you Powersurge and Leftiebiker - not sure if this follow up question should be in this thread or different; but here goes.
So what I understand from you:

a) charging the battery to 80%
vs
b) 100% charge and start using the car in an hour or so

in the usual Pacific NW weather makes no difference. Did I get this right?

Thank you again for your advice.
You should be fine to charge to 100% all of the time, except maybe in July/August. I have a friend in Seattle who charges to 100% all of the time and now has 80,000 mi on a 2011. He is down to 9 bars, but still makes a 40 mi RT commute (next winter will probably be tough, and no longer possible on certain days).
 
So what I understand from you:

a) charging the battery to 80%
vs
b) 100% charge and start using the car in an hour or so

in the usual Pacific NW weather makes no difference. Did I get this right?

Pretty much. If it were me I'd only charge to 100% if I planned on using most of it, and would charge to 75-90% otherwise, but in cooler weather it's fine if you use the car not long after charging is finished.
 
Nobody really knows for sure what factors accelerate degradation the most...

FWIW, here's my list based on what I've read online:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=25002&hilit=degredation#p513110

I personally try to charge to 80% max when I know I won't need additional range and I try to not let the SOC drop below 20% (again, if I don't need the range). There's some evidence that limiting the depth of discharge is better for the longevity of the battery, but again - speculation.

Having said that, I don't hesitate to charge to 100% SOC when I need the extra range and I do so roughly once a week to balance the pack too. I've also run the pack down to VLB a few times, but I also try to charge it immediately after doing so. I don't let the pack sit at 100% SOC for more than an hour if I can help it.

So far, so good as I've still got 12 bars on my 2013 SV that's over 60k miles now. Lucky to live in a very moderate climate, as I suspect that's the primary reason the pack is in good shape and that my charging habits have little to do with it...
 
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