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a03326495

Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2017
Messages
5
Location
Sacramento, CA
We are looking at buying a used Nissan Leaf and are hoping folks on this forum can weigh in on our decision a bit. We are currently looking at 2 cars:

Both $10999

One is:
2013 SV
7,700 miles
11 bars on battery

One is:
2014 SV
44,200 miles
11 bars on battery

Both have quick charge and 220 charger, both have 1 previous owner.

Our immediate inclination is to buy the 2013 because the mileage is so low, but we are wondering if the battery degraded to 11 with so few miles on the car might be a sign that we’ll have rapid degradation of the battery going forward.

We also considered buying the newer car because it has more years on the warranty (though getting close to Nissan’s 60k mile battery warranty)

Which would you buy?

It looks like similar cars without the DC quickcharge are going for $2000+ cheaper than these. How important have you found that feature? (we’re in a city in CA, so lots of charging stations available.)

Thank you!
 
Insufficient info.

Can you update your location info via your user name in the upper right > User Control Panel > Profile tab? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.

What are your daily driving needs in terms of miles? How much city vs. highway? Will you have the ability to charge at your work/destinations?

What's the build month on each? Very important: Where did each of the cars reside before? Hot climates == lots of battery degradation, esp. on ones built before 4/2013. What was the original in-service date on each? That's when the warranty clock started ticking.

For me, the CHAdeMO inlet was NOT worth the price, so I didn't bother when I bought my used done. I don't have time to repost why, but please see http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=508786#p508786. Basically, reason for me was: not worth it to me to pay $1K to $1.5K for the privilege of spending more $ to DC FC my Leaf than to fuel my Prius. I lived with a '13 Leaf w/CHAdeMO for 2 years and used the inlet about 16 times in free DC FCs. None of those are free any more and there are almost no free ones left in the Bay Area.

FWIW, I live and work hotter parts of the SF Bay Area and lost my 1st capacity bar on my 5/2013 built Leaf a few weeks ago: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=511915#p511915. I tried to baby the battery on weekdays, keep it out of the heat and tried to let the battery cool outside at night.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/seattle-nissan-leaf-owners/a-guide-for-buying-a-used-leaf/1100737373291032/ may help.
 
Thanks for the quick reply. We're in Sacramento, CA.

Most of the driving will be a 50mi round trip commute 4 days a week, with some in town driving. There is charging at work.

From Carfax:

The 2013, (Oct build month) was leased in LA.

The 2014, (Feb build month) was leased in Long Beach.

We're very excited to make the switch to electric! Thanks for the help!
 
I'll have to think about the cars more but the only part of the 5 year/60K warranty you might care about is the EV system/powertrain warranty.

Unless the cars had their BMSes reset (e.g. http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2014/11/buyers-beware-this-is-must-read.html ; search for posts by AntronX in the thread at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=489739#p489739), neither is going to hit 8 bars before the 5 year/60K capacity warranty is up. My semi-wild guess is that neither of the cars you listed was reset.
 
I'd keep looking, there are a lot of cheaper cars out there. I just got my first EV in October here in LA, a 2014 S for $7500 from a private party. 30K miles, had 12 bars, it just lost a bar a month after I bought it, DOH! Drives great, I love it, even though it's a SLOW charger, 3.6kW, no DCFC. That was the only black eye for this car, the private seller was asking $8000 but I offered $7500 since I figured I'd need to buy an L2 charger at home.

BTW from what I gather, the battery degradation (bars lost) is more related to battery age than mileage, assuming the car hasn't been abused in a hot area. I see some 2015s with 12 bars with over 50K miles.

I shopped on Carfax for a long time before I bought, Metro Nissan was flipping several 2015's coming off lease for $10K with 16K miles. That became my standard for pricing. At first I thought that buying from a Nissan dealer was more legit than a private party, but the salesmen really knew nothing about Leafs, or the many different warranties on the car/powertrain and battery.

I ultimately found my car on Craigslist, and I am the THIRD owner. No worries.

For a while now, Metro has had two 2015s for $14K, with just 323 and 1554 miles:
https://www.metronissanmontclair.com/VehicleSearchResults?search=preowned&searchQuery=leaf&offset=0

A Leaf NUT I met says that Silicon Valley has more Leafs for sale than anywhere, so you're closer than I was to Leaf heaven than I am. Keep looking!

Check for Norcal incentives at https://www.driveclean.ca.gov/pev/Incentives.php . I'm getting $450 from my power company: https://www.scecleanfuel.com/

And $250 from AQMD for my L2 EVSE: http://www.aqmd.gov/home/programs/community/community-detail?title=ev-charging-incentive
 
BTW from what I gather, the battery degradation (bars lost) is more related to battery age than mileage, assuming the car hasn't been abused in a hot area.

That's the case with the first version of the pack, from 2011 through March of 2013 builds. After that, age is much less a factor.
 
I would suggest you keep looking and see what else is out there. But, if your choice is just between those two, I would get the 2013 model. There is only a few months difference in the build dates, the 2013 has much lower mileage, and it also has the 80% charge option (which was removed for the 2014 and newer models). If you want, you can also purchase an extended warranty at a discount from some Nissan dealers. It is a little more, since the original warranty is expired, and has a $100 deductible per visit, but is available if you want it.
 
To summarize all of the long winded posts so far, don't buy either of these cars. $11K is a high price for these cars, and you could get much better and younger cars for that price. If you are willing to spend that much, then go for a 15, 16 with no more than 20k miles and 12 bars.....
 
a03326495 said:
We are looking at buying a used Nissan Leaf ...

It looks like similar cars without the DC quickcharge are going for $2000+ cheaper than these. How important have you found that feature?...
Just don't buy any BEV without a DC port, unless you plan to never drive more than ~50 miles from home, and plan to give it away rather than resell it in the future.

You are fortunate to live in a region where you can travel in any direction (except to the north-where I live, and where DC is coming soon) and already have the DC infrastructure that makes a ~$5,000 used LEAF with a DC port much more capable than a ~$30,000 new BEV without DC capability.

Every year I drive my 2011 LEAF to the Bay area, and every year it has become a better car, due to DC infrastructure improvements.
 
We found another for your consideration:

2013 SV, 32k miles, 11 bars, has DCFC, $8950

We found a free VIN report that says it was manufactured in 2012. Shipped to Dealer in 4/2013. That means it doesn't have the new battery, correct? If it hasn't lost its bars yet with the miles and years on it, are we likely safe from accelerated degradation? Feel free to point me to the relevant posts on the subject, my forum searches returned too many results.

I've been inspired to use Leaf Spy on it when we test drive.

VIN report screenshot: https://imgur.com/gallery/y9MJz1s
 
a03326495 said:
We found another for your consideration:

2013 SV, 32k miles, 11 bars, has DCFC, $8950

We found a free VIN report that says it was manufactured in 2012. Shipped to Dealer in 4/2013. That means it doesn't have the new battery, correct? If it hasn't lost its bars yet with the miles and years on it, are we likely safe from accelerated degradation? Feel free to point me to the relevant posts on the subject, my forum searches returned too many results.

I've been inspired to use Leaf Spy on it when we test drive.

VIN report screenshot: https://imgur.com/gallery/y9MJz1s

It means that it was kept cool. Unless it's also very cool where you live, it will degrade quickly.
 
a03326495 said:
We found another for your consideration:

2013 SV, 32k miles, 11 bars, has DCFC, $8950

We found a free VIN report that says it was manufactured in 2012. Shipped to Dealer in 4/2013. That means it doesn't have the new battery, correct? If it hasn't lost its bars yet with the miles and years on it, are we likely safe from accelerated degradation? Feel free to point me to the relevant posts on the subject, my forum searches returned too many results.

I've been inspired to use Leaf Spy on it when we test drive.

VIN report screenshot: https://imgur.com/gallery/y9MJz1s

Don't trust the free VIN reports, always get a CarFax. Most reputable dealers will now provide one for free.

Contact the seller and get the manufacture date from the drivers door pillar. If it was made and shipped to the dealer in 4/2013, then it has a better battery than cars made January thru March. From Nissan's history of how they handle the Leaf model years, it was not likely made in 2012 if it is an actual 2013 model.
 
Not sure if you are on SMUD or PG&E.

PG&E has a clean fuel rebate that you can claim, if the previous owner of the vehicle didn't. If you qualify, they'll send you a $500 check. SMUD also has a program that offers a $599 incentive or a L2 charger.

The IRS also has an alternate fuel credit up to $1000 for the installation of a charging station. I imagine this would also apply to any labor fees for an electrician to install an outlet for you. I installed my own, so I will be claiming parts I purchased as well as my charging station.


https://www.smud.org/en/Going-Green/Electric-Vehicles/Residential

https://www.pge.com/en_US/residential/solar-and-vehicles/options/clean-vehicles/electric/clean-fuel-rebate-for-electric-vehicles.page

https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/individuals/alternative-fuel-vehicle-refueling-property-credit
 
We're SMUD. However, their credit is just for new purchases and leases of EVs, not buying used.

https://www.smud.org/-/media/Going-Green/EVs/PEV-Charge-Free-rebate-form-2-years.ashx?la=en&hash=03BE17C8A2A59050922E38E81BDBB49C54FB04C1

I think SMUD might have a rate discount for EV owners if they use time of day billing, but I'll have to do more research.

I'll also look into the federal credit. Thanks!
 
I got a 2015 SV for with 21.5K miles for $11,900 in very good condition. It has 12 bars.

BARS - I would suggest you find one with 12 bars. Why accept less. They are out there for about the price you are paying.

YEAR - I also suggest you try and get the newest one you can afford (but I was not seeing a big difference between years with similar miles). In 2015 Nissan went to better battery chemistry, nicknamed the "Lizzard" battery. Again I suggest definitely get one with 12 bars. Of course LOW miles, good tires, good body, nice alloy rims is in the mix depending on your preferences.

SET YOUR NEEDS AND BUDGET - You need to research what you want and what you want to pay.

SPREAD YOUR SEARCH TO COUNTRY WIDE OR AT LEAST REGIONAL - I'd look country wide. Depending where you live you may have lots of local LEAF's to buy or none. I did an all Craigslist search and found my car in San Diago, 1800 miles away. Seems most EV's are on West Coast. If you live in California, you will have your pick. If the car is only 500-1000 miles away, rent a U-Haul Dolly trailer (front wheels off ground) and go pick up yourself (assuming you have a vehicle you can tow with). Where I live LEAF's are not common, therefore not a big local selection. Having it shipped is no big deal and easy, but that will add to the cost. I paid for the car Wednesday, Transport picked the car up on Thurs. I had car at my house Tuesday, late morning, before Lunch.

MODEL S, SV or SL. The SL is the delux with leather and all the bells and whistles. The SV has all the bells and whistles, especially in the later years, like hybrid heater, LED lights (which mine has). For me I wanted the SV and 12 bars. The 2015 was also high on my list for the Lizard battery, so that cut it down. "S" is a stripped down model. You can get 6.6KWh charger in a "S".

CHARGER - When I got my LEAF the fast charger was on my must have. However I have changed my opinion slightly. I was at first only charging at LEVEL 1 (because I did not have 220/240 LEVEL 2 charging cable). I went to LEVEL 2 16 AMP (3.8KWh, charging cable limited). It was a huge difference from LEVEL 1. I got another EVSE that is 20 AMPS, so I am charging at 4.8KWh and it is almost same time as 3.8KWh, a tad faster. The standard 3.3KWh normal charge (with LEVEL 2 cable) would have been sufficient for my needs, but I am glad I got the higher powered charger, even though I don't charge to the full 6.6KWh. On the "S" the 6.6KWh is an option. You need to research what years have what, what models have as standard and what is optional, (NAV, RIMS). I also have the DC Fast Charging standards – CHAdeMO charging jack. That is not for home use. I don't have access to a super fast charger, but it CHAdeMO can charge the car in something like 30 minutes. However there is some question to effect on battery life. As I understand it, OK for rare occasion but not routine charging. I doubt I will CHAdeMO charge my car.

When I was looking two months ago I found several 2015's for almost same or a little more then a 2013/2014. Also don't hesitate to buy out of state. You can always have it shipped to you. Cost of shipping? Depends on how far. I bought mine in San Diego, had it shipped ($800). If I were West of Mississippi or even Rocky's it would have been half that. I went with Pat, Drive Line Financial in San Diego. He is a LEAF expert. I also saw Carvana on-line selling many 2013 and 2014 LEAF "S" models, with similar miles or more than mine, for $12,000. I got mine about the same price but a SV. Carvana ships to you for free (but it is cooked into the price). The other ones I found on eBay. I found a nice one in Philly. It was a push between the two. The Philly one was almost in range for me to pick up, but at would be a 1600 mile round trip. The idea of having it delivered to me, not spending 3 days on the road, was better. I went with the California car despite paying the $800 transport fee.

I am a new LEAF owner (about 2 months) and not an expert, but understand where you are coming from as I just went though the decision making process. I know you want to stay away from 2011/2012. Again my advice is get 12 bars and the newest one you can find or afford. Also this is a good time as many 2015's are coming off lease and the new LEAF has new style and bigger battery.

To me I see no reason to buy one with 11 or 10 bars UNLESS THEY ARE GIVING IT AWAY. A new pack is $6,000. I would go for a "S" model with 11 bars only if it was $8,000 to $6,000. Keep in mind a new battery will be needed at some point. When? I don't know, but better to start with 12 not 11. I think (no facts just my opinion) once it is on it's way down, it is a steady decline from there. It also depends on ambient temperatures where you live and how you drive and charge. Hot rod driving (which is fun, fast off the line) creates battery heat. Have fun. I love my LEAF. I wanted to experience the EV for cheap. I looked at Tesla, and a used one was 4 times what I paid for this LEAF. It is only going to save me $6000 in the next 8 years, but then I will need to buy a battery pack. I suppose I am reducing pollution. I am only a few miles from free charging at a large park public. They have 10 covered charge stations, free. If I can figure a way to park there and leave to take care of errands, charging it for free that would be cool and save some real money! Ha ha :D
 
YEAR - I also suggest you try and get the newest one you can afford (but I was not seeing a big difference between years with similar miles). In 2015 Nissan went to better battery chemistry, nicknamed the "Lizzard" battery.

The 2016-2017 30kwh pack has proven to be a very big step backwards in resisting degradation from the 2015. For this reason I don't recommend that anyone buy a 2016 or lease a 2017 Leaf, unless they live in a very cold climate.
 
Right. The "pre-Lizard" (confusing name) or "Wolf Pack" (my idea) was made from 4/2013 through the 2014 model year. It seems to differ from the Lizard pack mainly in lower resistance to extreme heat.
 
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