LeftieBiker
Posts: 9615
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Leaf or Prius?

Sat Jun 03, 2017 3:35 pm

Just to restate my position. Cwerdna is right, but if you want a lower payment, and if you are willing to risk losing $2k then put $2k down. Most people don't total their leased cars, but some do. It's a financial risk, so treat it as one. If you won't be hurting if you lose the $2k, don't worry about it. Just be aware that it's a gamble.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

TreeStar
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 7:38 pm
Delivery Date: 29 May 2017
Location: Oregon City, Oregon

Re: Leaf or Prius?

Sat Jun 03, 2017 3:48 pm

I'll probably put enough down to get my payments under $300.

It was mentioned that the batteries have shown to be somewhat problematic? Losing bars?

It's really tempting to buy one used, but I want a longer range than what they have.

cwerdna
Posts: 8294
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Leaf or Prius?

Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:41 pm

TreeStar wrote:I'll probably put enough down to get my payments under $300.

You should calculate the total cost of the lease for the $0 down case vs. whatever you plan to put down.

Then ask yourself, are the savings over total cost of lease worth losing all $ paid so far (down payment + all payments thus far), if the car is totaled.
TreeStar wrote:It was mentioned that the batteries have shown to be somewhat problematic? Losing bars?

You're in Oregon, amongst the mildest climate for temperature-based battery capacity loss.

The guy at https://www.facebook.com/groups/seattle ... 631254435/ is at 90.1K miles and still has all 12 bars on his '13. The previous record I'd heard of (at least for the US) was 1 bar gone at 89K miles at https://www.facebook.com/groups/seattle ... %22R%22%7D.

I'm still at 12 bars on my used '13 at almost 45K miles that was built 5/2013 that I bought in July 2015. From Leaf Spy stats, I've been creeping closer to losing a bar. I'm not in nearly as mild of climate as Oregon. In contrast, this is what Phoenix does to a Leaf built the same month: viewtopic.php?p=473995#p473995.

Did we already point you to https://www.facebook.com/notes/16224457 ... 373291032/?

Unfortunately, it seems like the 30 kWh batteries in '16+ SV and SL, '16 "S 30" and '17+ Leafs aren't holding up that well in terms of capacity loss. Either those folks have defective batteries or Nissan took a step back compared to batteries in 4/2013+ built thru model year '15 Leafs. Leaf from '11 thru '15 was always 24 kWh.

The only good thing is that the 30 kWh batteries have an 8 year/100K capacity warranty (if you're down to 8 bars, they'll replace it udner warranty) vs 5 years/60K miles on the 24 kWh. Problem is, we don't know if the capacity percentages for each bar are still the same on the 30 kWh Leafs. Before, down to 8 bars == a bit over 30% capacity loss.

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

TreeStar
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 7:38 pm
Delivery Date: 29 May 2017
Location: Oregon City, Oregon

Re: Leaf or Prius?

Sat Jun 03, 2017 7:11 pm

cwerdna wrote:
TreeStar wrote:I'll probably put enough down to get my payments under $300.

You should calculate the total cost of the lease for the $0 down case vs. whatever you plan to put down.

Then ask yourself, are the savings over total cost of lease worth losing all $ paid so far (down payment + all payments thus far), if the car is totaled.
TreeStar wrote:It was mentioned that the batteries have shown to be somewhat problematic? Losing bars?

You're in Oregon, amongst the mildest climate for temperature-based battery capacity loss.

The guy at https://www.facebook.com/groups/seattle ... 631254435/ is at 90.1K miles and still has all 12 bars on his '13. The previous record I'd heard of (at least for the US) was 1 bar gone at 89K miles at https://www.facebook.com/groups/seattle ... %22R%22%7D.

I'm still at 12 bars on my used '13 at almost 45K miles that was built 5/2013 that I bought in July 2015. From Leaf Spy stats, I've been creeping closer to losing a bar. I'm not in nearly as mild of climate as Oregon. In contrast, this is what Phoenix does to a Leaf built the same month: viewtopic.php?p=473995#p473995.

Did we already point you to https://www.facebook.com/notes/16224457 ... 373291032/?

Unfortunately, it seems like the 30 kWh batteries in '16+ SV and SL, '16 "S 30" and '17+ Leafs aren't holding up that well in terms of capacity loss. Either those folks have defective batteries or Nissan took a step back compared to batteries in 4/2013+ built thru model year '15 Leafs. Leaf from '11 thru '15 was always 24 kWh.

The only good thing is that the 30 kWh batteries have an 8 year/100K capacity warranty (if you're down to 8 bars, they'll replace it udner warranty) vs 5 years/60K miles on the 24 kWh. Problem is, we don't know if the capacity percentages for each bar are still the same on the 30 kWh Leafs. Before, down to 8 bars == a bit over 30% capacity loss.


Great response.

The battery issue I recall reading was from the newer models.

I would love to buy a used one, but that range. What are they getting in real world conditions? They are rated at 84, right? I based a recent trip (I posted about here) on a car with a 90 mile range (to be on the safe side) and would have had no extra issues on this trip. I mean it wouldn't have caused a problem where I was needing to charge somewhere and wait. I could have charged at a destination.

The difference from a 2013 to a 2017 is about $10,000.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9615
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Leaf or Prius?

Sat Jun 03, 2017 7:43 pm

You might get 70 miles from a 2013 now. Or you might not. If you look at those, make sure you only consider cars built after 3/2013 (April builds are fine). Or find an early 2013 that has three or four bars lost, and has enough time left on the capacity warranty to lose a total of four.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

moneydown
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 1:53 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2017

Re: Leaf or Prius?

Sat Jun 03, 2017 7:47 pm

I traded in my 2008 prius for 2015 leaf. The leaf is a blast in comparison, and I use 0% gas instead of 100% gas. The battery range of even the new prius is laughable if I remember.
Have you looked at the Chevy Volt as a choice?

TreeStar
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 7:38 pm
Delivery Date: 29 May 2017
Location: Oregon City, Oregon

Re: Leaf or Prius?

Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:27 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:You might get 70 miles from a 2013 now. Or you might not. If you look at those, make sure you only consider cars built after 3/2013 (April builds are fine). Or find an early 2013 that has three or four bars lost, and has enough time left on the capacity warranty to lose a total of four.


That's probably enough range for most of my needs. I mean it is enough for most of my needs. 260 days (work days) of the year I only commute 26 miles a day. I've mentioned this elsewhere in this thread, but it's getting long now.

But if these make such a good used car, then the newer ones will make good used cars too. And with that $15,000 in incentives, that's a great chuck of the initial depreciation. So I can lease for 2 years then finance $11,395 for the remainder of the car.

alozzy
Posts: 1170
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: Leaf or Prius?

Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:49 pm

So I can lease for 2 years then finance $11,395 for the remainder of the car


$300 x 24 months = $7,200 + $2000 down = $9,200

That's the full cost of a 2013 SV + QC in your market.

I don't get it - why lease when you can own basically the same car after 2 years of the same payments and enjoy it from then on for next to nothing per month ($20 for electricity + insurance).
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Loving my first BEV :D

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9615
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Leaf or Prius?

Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:56 pm

I don't get it - why lease when you can own basically the same car after 2 years of the same payments and enjoy it from then on for next to nothing per month ($20 for electricity + insurance).


That's basically the same car with a brand new warranty, a 25% larger battery that should have as much range after five years as a good 2013 has now, and a longer battery warranty. I wouldn't spend more than $7k for a 2013 now, and I'd consider leasing a 2017 SV with premium if it were $200 a month, with a $9-10k residual. Some of us want peace of mind as much as we want a bargain.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

TreeStar
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 7:38 pm
Delivery Date: 29 May 2017
Location: Oregon City, Oregon

Re: Leaf or Prius?

Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:49 pm

The incentives are not as good on the SV. It's a more expensive car with less off.

I like the app control and the wheels are better, but whatever. That's not worth it to me for the SV.

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