Greetings and prepurchase question

So first of all, greetings all. I live in Denver Colorado, and I stumbled across the great deals that a used Leaf provides, and now I think I may have been bitten by the electric car bug. I have been doing a lot of pre-purchase research, and I think I have found all the big gotchas, however I would like someone who has actually owned, or does own a Leaf to provide a backstop to my thoughts and point out any other concerns that they have had during ownership, in respect to my locale, and prospective use.

So, as stated before, I live in Denver Colorado. We are typically pretty mild winter weather wise, but it is not uncommon that we have weeks with sub 0F temperatures. I do own a house, but I will not be parking/charging the leaf indoors. This car will need to be parked/charged outside. I do have RV parking on both sides of my house, and running a 30-50 amp 240 volt supply for an EVSE will not be a problem. I have also decided upon a used Leaf, as it will be replacing our second car, which is my primary transportation to/from work. As a second vehicle I don't need to worry about range so much as my daily commute totals ~14 miles round trip, but I don't have charging available at work. This seems to work well within the range limitation of the Leaf, even without at work charging in the winter, provided I get one with a decent battery and work within its limitations.

Through my research I have decided to limit my search to 2013+ models in the SV/SL trim (given the heat pump, the standard battery heater, and to provide some warranty cushion on the battery). Additionally one with the CHAdeMO charger would be a welcome bonus, but not a requirement. Additionally I have already made plans to get one of the Bluetooth ODBII dongles that I can use with Leafspy during the prepurchase test drive/inspection, to hopefully reduce the likelihood of buying a used Leaf with a bum battery. I am also looking to keep the miles on the used vehicle as low as possible as well. I plan on keeping this for several (5+) years and I hope by keeping the mileage low I can extended the amount of time that the range meets my needs.

Are there any other trouble spots that you, as a Leaf owner/former owner, would be on the look out when purchasing a used vehicle?

Do you see any issues with my daily commute round trip distance causing issues during extreme cold? My research now indicates that I should be able to get at least 30 miles of round trip range during extreme cold, which is double my round trip range, without having access to charging at work. Do you believe that this is doable?

I have seen a few posts lamenting insurance rates as being inexplicably high. Is that really a big issue?

My hope is to eventually to transition to an all electric vehicle house. I want to ease into it though, and prove to my wife that it is, mostly, doable with only the occasional once a month/once every two month trip requiring more range than current, or prospective vehicles will provide.

Thank you for any input, or any posts that you can point me to that will help in my continuing research.

i see no issues for you really. I have a similar commute (to Salt lake downtown from bountiful) and similar weather too.

The only things is.. how about a NEW one? I've heard that in CO that with all the state and fed tax thingies you'll be able to get into a new one for less than $16k but that is probably only if you earn enough to qualify.. which i didn't for fed taxes and no real utah state extras would hit my bottom line.

anyway. You should meet up with owners or at least have a long phone conversation with some. forums are ok but most of us (myself included) are too lazy to post all of our thoughts and if we did, would anyone read them all?

The main issue I have with a new vehicle, even one discounted by State/Federal tax incentives is the first year depreciation, which seems to be unusually high with the Leaf. Sure I could get a new one for a all said and done (the lowest quote I've found on a SV/SL so far), but I have seen low mileage (less than 3K) 2015 lease surrenders for $15K. They disappear fast, but they are there. And saving $8K on a purchase if I can, while still having the full, or near full factor warranty is a smart decision in my book.

Some of the lower prices bandied about the web on Leaf prices in Colorado are ignoring the fact that dealers can now advertise the state tax incentive in the 'window' price. So the low priced new Leafs already have the State $5K tax credit in their advertised price, but people are double deducting it in some cases. The lowest I've seen a new Leaf currently with the State Tax credit and federal credit applied is $23K. I'm not willing to pay $8K+ more for a one/two MY newer vehicle, it doesn't make financial sense to me.

DuncanCunningham said:

i see no issues for you really. I have a similar commute (to Salt lake downtown from bountiful) and similar weather too.

The only things is.. how about a NEW one? I've heard that in CO that with all the state and fed tax thingies you'll be able to get into a new one for less than $16k but that is probably only if you earn enough to qualify.. which i didn't for fed taxes and no real utah state extras would hit my bottom line.

anyway. You should meet up with owners or at least have a long phone conversation with some. forums are ok but most of us (myself included) are too lazy to post all of our thoughts and if we did, would anyone read them all?

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14 miles round trip is very short, even in winter. With my 2015 SV at 95% health at 15F (but no snow) at primarily 65 mph, I can do my 36.5 mile round trip commute with >20% remaining. I plan for 2% per mile right now as a conservative estimate, but have typically seen about 1.6-1.8% per mile. That's around 3 miles per kwh, which is considered "average". If you're not going on the highway you'll likely see better efficiency. We haven't had a super cold snowy day yet, so I can't comment on how it does in that weather.

I would always recommend checking out http://insideevs.com/used-nissan-leaf-buying-guide/ and http://plugshare.com. The former is a site that (while a bit out of date) explains all the differences between years and trims (you likely have already seen it) and the latter shows you charging stations you can use in case of emergencies or if you want to try doing some shorter trips (filter out superchargers, CCS DCFC, and maybe 120V wall outlets).

My insurance is cheaper than my wife's 2012 Rav4, but we also only had her car on the policy before. It was about a $55 a month increase over the previous plan as a 24 year old male with no accidents from liberty mutual, with 2 cars and a house on the plan (previously 1 car and house).

The 2014s and later have the backup camera as standard. Otherwise there's not much else different that would concern you if you're looking at SV and SLs.

ok then. I was wondering. I saw a bunch of people bragging that in CO they got a NEW leaf for $15k or $16k. I guess later on they had a shock and didn't want to share that with the rest of us?

Yeah, I was on the same boat. I bought used too. The 2012 SL is perfect for my commute and lifestyle. I never charge anywhere but home unless i have a special trip to make and I don't like relaying on the Nissan dealerships for L3 charging a couple of them hate EVs and will try as much as possible to block the chargers with their dealer cars... NORTH SALT LAKE DEALER used to do that but have since told me that they are friendly to EV owners. it's the reason we didn't lease my wifes car from them so I hope they learn that it hurt their sales dept by their non love for EV at that time.

anyways. I've been very lucky, never been unable to get home. I think you are ok but I'd still push for a 2013 SV to get the better heater option.

Check out my posts on this board, I just bought a 2013 Leaf SV 28k miles 2 weeks ago in Denver for $9000. We are sharing brainwaves. CHAdeMO was also not on my list of required stuff, but now that I own a Leaf I am so happy that I have it. Denver has a couple quick chargers, mostly at Nissan dealers for free. If you want to go to Colorado Springs and on to Pueblo they have a whole CHAdeMO network down there it's pretty amazing. There are a bunch in northern CO too, Boulder, Longmont, Ft Collins, and Greeley. Insurance was only $4 more per month than my 2004 Subaru Forester for the same comprehensive coverage. The only issues I have with winter is that the stock Yokohama eco low rolling resistance tires are pure dog poo in the snow, I haven't found the heater impacts my range at all. The GOM says it will take maximum 3 miles off my range at 100% charge. Granted I haven't had it much colder than 20F yet. I have a feeling some Leaf owners have their tire pressures drop in the winter and are blaming the cold for less range instead of their tire pressure.

I'd probably include the S model in your search, just in case you see a good deal. Even without the heat pump, if you can get one for a couple thousand less than the SV it may still be worth it. Your commute is short enough that range shouldn't be an issue even with the less effective heater (also you can use the heated seats and steering wheel to minimize use of the heater).

taralon said:

The main issue I have with a new vehicle, even one discounted by State/Federal tax incentives is the first year depreciation, which seems to be unusually high with the Leaf. Sure I could get a new one for a all said and done (the lowest quote I've found on a SV/SL so far), but I have seen low mileage (less than 3K) 2015 lease surrenders for $15K. They disappear fast, but they are there. And saving $8K on a purchase if I can, while still having the full, or near full factor warranty is a smart decision in my book.

Some of the lower prices bandied about the web on Leaf prices in Colorado are ignoring the fact that dealers can now advertise the state tax incentive in the 'window' price. So the low priced new Leafs already have the State $5K tax credit in their advertised price, but people are double deducting it in some cases. The lowest I've seen a new Leaf currently with the State Tax credit and federal credit applied is $23K. I'm not willing to pay $8K+ more for a one/two MY newer vehicle, it doesn't make financial sense to me.

DuncanCunningham said:

i see no issues for you really. I have a similar commute (to Salt lake downtown from bountiful) and similar weather too.

The only things is.. how about a NEW one? I've heard that in CO that with all the state and fed tax thingies you'll be able to get into a new one for less than $16k but that is probably only if you earn enough to qualify.. which i didn't for fed taxes and no real utah state extras would hit my bottom line.

anyway. You should meet up with owners or at least have a long phone conversation with some. forums are ok but most of us (myself included) are too lazy to post all of our thoughts and if we did, would anyone read them all?

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Hmmm, that's odd. Here in Cali, we only get a $2500 rebate, and my out the door for a 2016 S30 (right before the 2017's were available) would've been $20k (I leased it instead hoping for another discount at end of lease). $17,500 sounds so different from $23k, unless that's for an SV?

Anyway, on OP's point, there doesn't seem to be any reasons why a used 2013+ wouldn't work.

I guess a new S wouldn't be terrible price wise, if I financed through Nissan and qualified for the $4k financing credit offer, with the stacked CO credit of $5k, and at the end of the year could claim the full $7500 Federal tax credit. Then yes, the price would be close to $17500. However even $17500 is a hefty premium over one currently on the lot which is a 2015 S with 9500 miles for $9k. This new vs used is a little better, but still I doubt the extra $8500 in cost would purchase all that much.

I am specifically looking at the SV/SL for the heater, and the fact that I don't have to specifically look for an S with the higher KW charger, it is hard enough calling a dealership about a car to find out the trim level when they don't specifically mention it, harder still to find out installed options. I don't currently think I would need the higher capacity charger, but I would like to avoid having buyers regret if in the future I do need it.

If you have no problem with the configuration of the S, then look for an SV without Premium Package. You still get the heatpump and a few other upgrades from the S, but the price will be closer to an S. If it isn't, negotiate! The unoptioned SVs are the next to last to sell when new, after the non-QC S.