2013 SL vs. 2015 S QC value proposition

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C

Coaster

Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2017
Messages
10
Location
Western NC
Hi, all!

Long time lurker, first time poster. While I've never owned one, I've been a LEAFophile for years. The problem is my absolutely bulletproof 1998 Honda Civic LX that gets pretty good mileage, is stone simple to work on, and just won't die. Still, I'm going to pull the EV trigger before too much longer and hope you can help me sort out what I see as my two main options.

As I analyze the used market for the best LEAF value, I keep coming back to opposite ends of the trim spectrum: either a 2015 S with QC (~20K miles, low price ~$8500) vs. a 2013 SL (~30K miles, low price ~$10,000). I'm gung-ho about the 2015 S since it comes with B mode & cruise.

If I choose the SL, there's no question that getting the heat pump, leather, 17” alloys, navigation, rear heated seats, LED low beams, and potentially the Premium package for ~$1500 is a steal. I'm just not sure that those options are worth trading for an S that's 2 years newer & could have ~10K fewer miles? Not to mention a healthier battery...

$1500 also comfortably covers the installed cost of an EVSE.

What's the wisdom of the collective on choosing between these two options? Am I missing something (likely)? :D

Thanks for reading,
Jeff

PS: My commute is 10-11 miles RT in/near Asheville, NC, which can get cold but not ridiculously so.
http://www.rssweather.com/climate/North%20Carolina/Asheville/
PPS: I will certainly do a LeafSpy analysis before plunking down any shekels.
 
I looked at a 2013 SL CPO with all the goodies versus a 2015 SV with 10k less miles but a little more beat up at similar prices.

I was also torn with older battery from cool climate versus newer battery from slightly warmer climate, and chose the 2013 SL because I'm a gadgetholic among other reasons. I feel like I won the battery lottery with my 5/13 build, as it's still just over 65 AHr and high SOH.

I've seen quite a few cases around here when someone was comparing similar cars in the $8-$10K range and ended up with a 2017 S Lease because it wasn't significantly more money per month and the 30kWh Battery is compelling.

I don't think any are a wrong choice as long as the potential range limitations over time fit within your needs.
 
silverone said:
I looked at a 2013 SL CPO with all the goodies versus a 2015 SV with 10k less miles but a little more beat up at similar prices.
I was also torn with older battery from cool climate versus newer battery from slightly warmer climate, and chose the 2013 SL because I'm a gadgetholic among other reasons. I feel like I won the battery lottery with my 5/13 build, as it's still just over 65 AHr and high SOH.
Click to expand...

Congrats! Were you able to test the battery before buying, or did you have to "ship & hope"? :eek:

silverone said:
I've seen quite a few cases around here when someone was comparing similar cars in the $8-$10K range and ended up with a 2017 S Lease because it wasn't significantly more money per month and the 30kWh Battery is compelling.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this perspective; I hadn't thought of leasing a new S. I usually buy a car and drive it into the ground, but I understand the arguments against that approach with an EV...

silverone said:
I don't think any are a wrong choice as long as the potential range limitations over time fit within your needs.
Click to expand...

Sure enough. Thanks for your reply, silverone!
 
Coaster said:
Congrats! Were you able to test the battery before buying, or did you have "ship & hope"? :eek:
Click to expand...

Against my better judgement I didn't LeafSpy test either car on the lots. I got quite a bit of the backstory on this particular car as a local lease return, and was fairly confident that the colder winter weather could only help. The battery state was a positive surprise and has actually improved in the last few weeks of regular driving.

This car was originally intended for my kids that are coming of driving age, but I'm not sure I'll give it up this summer now. They will have to pry my warm hands from the steering wheel to get it away from me this winter. I've enjoyed it much more than I anticipated and the range greatly exceeds my needs for the moment, even in the coldest of weather.
 
Coaster said:
Hi, all!

Long time lurker, first time poster. While I've never owned one, I've been a LEAFophile for years. The problem is my absolutely bulletproof 1998 Honda Civic LX that gets pretty good mileage, is stone simple to work on, and just won't die. Still, I'm going to pull the EV trigger before too much longer and hope you can help me sort out what I see as my two main options.

As I analyze the used market for the best LEAF value, I keep coming back to opposite ends of the trim spectrum: either a 2015 S with QC (~20K miles, low price ~$8500) vs. a 2013 SL (~30K miles, low price ~$10,000). I'm gung-ho about the 2015 S since it comes with B mode & cruise.

If I choose the SL, there's no question that getting the heat pump, leather, 17” alloys, navigation, rear heated seats, LED low beams, and potentially the Premium package for ~$1500 is a steal. I'm just not sure that those options are worth trading for an S that's 2 years newer & could have ~10K fewer miles? Not to mention a healthier battery...

$1500 also comfortably covers the installed cost of an EVSE.

What's the wisdom of the collective on choosing between these two options? Am I missing something (likely)? :D

Thanks for reading,
Jeff

PS: My commute is 10-11 miles RT in/near Asheville, NC, which can get cold but not ridiculously so.
http://www.rssweather.com/climate/North%20Carolina/Asheville/
PPS: I will certainly do a LeafSpy analysis before plunking down any shekels.
Click to expand...

I'd go for the 2015 S, and here's my reasons:
heat pump - not a big deal, since the 2013's going to have a weaker battery (more miles + more years). There's also pre-conditioning.
rear-heated seats - will your passengers really care for the 30 minutes that they'll be in the car? front-heated seats is standard on the S.
navigation - maps aren't OTA updatable, so these are 2013 maps. I'd rather use my phone.

That leaves 17" alloys, LED low beams, AND an older car for $1500 more.

Hope this helps!
 
I wouldn't even think for a second before going with the S. You can replace the radio in the S to something better, even a NAV unit if you want, for far less than $1500 (unlike the SL or SV the S doesn't have anything integrated into the head unit, so you can safely remove it). It's got fewer miles, the battery is younger and presumably in better shape, you have two more years of battery warranty. It costs a significant amount less.

Most of the stuff on the higher models (well, more like all of it) is not actually required to drive the car. You still have a gauge showing instant power usage and such on the S, which is all you really need.

You do lose a few nice features on the higher end car (heat pump), but I don't think any of that remotely makes up for the difference in price and age. Ultimately what's going to do the car in is the battery. All of the other features aren't going to mean a damn if the battery degrades to the point that the range is too low for your purposes. With the 15 it's more likely the car will last long enough for you to get your money's worth out of it.
 
I had to choose between a 2015 S (no CHAdeMO) and a 2013 SL. I went with the 2013 SL.

For me part of the reason was the faster charger. Not just the CHAdeMO, but the onboard charger was only 3.3kW with the 2015 S. I don't know if your 2015 S has a 6.6kW charger due to having a CHAdeMO port though. But to me, I figure if I ever do take my Leaf on a long trip, I don't want to be waiting 7 hours at a Level 2 charging station along the way.

Also the heat pump was important to me due to living in winter conditions 9 months out of the year.
 
silverone said:
Against my better judgement I didn't LeafSpy test either car on the lots. I got quite a bit of the backstory on this particular car as a local lease return, and was fairly confident that the colder winter weather could only help. The battery state was a positive surprise and has actually improved in the last few weeks of regular driving.

This car was originally intended for my kids that are coming of driving age, but I'm not sure I'll give it up this summer now. They will have to pry my warm hands from the steering wheel to get it away from me this winter. I've enjoyed it much more than I anticipated and the range greatly exceeds my needs for the moment, even in the coldest of weather.
Click to expand...

That's great the battery health has been so good!

I'm laughing that the "hand-off" to the kids may not occur; perhaps you guys will be a multi-LEAF family?! :D
 
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
I'd go for the 2015 S, and here's my reasons:
heat pump - not a big deal, since the 2013's going to have a weaker battery (more miles + more years). There's also pre-conditioning.
rear-heated seats - will your passengers really care for the 30 minutes that they'll be in the car? front-heated seats is standard on the S.
navigation - maps aren't OTA updatable, so these are 2013 maps. I'd rather use my phone.

That leaves 17" alloys, LED low beams, AND an older car for $1500 more.

Hope this helps!
Click to expand...

REALLY helpful, Oils4. Thanks!!

Heated rears are the only things the kids will be bummed about (see what I did there), but I totally see how the latest MY, healthiest battery, lowest mileage S with QC is the way to go...
 
Nagorak said:
I wouldn't even think for a second before going with the S. You can replace the radio in the S to something better, even a NAV unit if you want, for far less than $1500 (unlike the SL or SV the S doesn't have anything integrated into the head unit, so you can safely remove it). It's got fewer miles, the battery is younger and presumably in better shape, you have two more years of battery warranty. It costs a significant amount less.

Most of the stuff on the higher models (well, more like all of it) is not actually required to drive the car. You still have a gauge showing instant power usage and such on the S, which is all you really need.

You do lose a few nice features on the higher end car (heat pump), but I don't think any of that remotely makes up for the difference in price and age. Ultimately what's going to do the car in is the battery. All of the other features aren't going to mean a damn if the battery degrades to the point that the range is too low for your purposes. With the 15 it's more likely the car will last long enough for you to get your money's worth out of it.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the clear & cogent argument for a late model QC S, Nagorak. I truly appreciate it!

I've gone the "Crutchfield route" on a LOT of car radios; good to know it will work with the LEAF too!
 
IssacZachary said:
I had to choose between a 2015 S (no CHAdeMO) and a 2013 SL. I went with the 2013 SL.

For me part of the reason was the faster charger. Not just the CHAdeMO, but the onboard charger was only 3.3kW with the 2015 S. I don't know if your 2015 S has a 6.6kW charger due to having a CHAdeMO port though. But to me, I figure if I ever do take my Leaf on a long trip, I don't want to be waiting 7 hours at a Level 2 charging station along the way.

Also the heat pump was important to me due to living in winter conditions 9 months out of the year.
Click to expand...

Thanks, IZ. I totally understand your decision; at this point in the evolution of EVs, I wouldn't want a car without the 6.6/QC either. That will be mandatory on any S I consider.

As to the heat pump/resistive heater choice, I'm hoping that the seat heater, heated steering wheel, and a hat get me through the cold times! :lol:
 
Hands down, I chose the 2015 S.... So you use a little bit more power on the heater for a couple of months in the winter... The S has heated seats front an back, and the radio is as good as any... I have a BOSE radio on my Mazda Miata, and to me they sound the same. Also the alloy wheels are not such an improvement... I bought some new OEM Leaf tires and rims from a junkyard, and are fine.... BUT>> The alloys are actually 5lbs HEAVIER than the standard S steel wheels. You really are fine with the steel wheels.

The important option on the S is the charge package, with the chademo plug and the fast charge 6.6 charger.. Otherwise, get the newest Leaf you can.. Buying this car new is like buying bread in the bakery... buy the freshest you can get.
 
powersurge said:
Hands down, I chose the 2015 S.... So you use a little bit more power on the heater for a couple of months in the winter... The S has heated seats front an back, and the radio is as good as any... I have a BOSE radio on my Mazda Miata, and to me they sound the same. Also the alloy wheels are not such an improvement... I bought some new OEM Leaf tires and rims from a junkyard, and are fine.... BUT>> The alloys are actually 5lbs HEAVIER than the standard S steel wheels. You really are fine with the steel wheels.

The important option on the S is the charge package, with the chademo plug and the fast charge 6.6 charger.. Otherwise, get the newest Leaf you can.. Buying this car new is like buying bread in the bakery... buy the freshest you can get.
Click to expand...

You're speakin' my language, brother. I like the bread analogy! Thanks!

(Interesting tidbit on the alloys actually being heavier too...)
 
Coaster said:
Heated rears are the only things the kids will be bummed about (see what I did there), but I totally see how the latest MY, healthiest battery, lowest mileage S with QC is the way to go...
Click to expand...

Low & behold (and happily) I think I'm wrong...it seems from looking closely at online ad photos that the 2015 S w/ Charge Package has heated rear seats. Yippee!!
 
To be completely honest, I think the 2013 SL may be a bit overpriced. I actually think it would be more of a difficult decision if they were both priced at $8500, although even then I think I'd favor two years newer over nicer/more features.

A 2015 for $8500 is a really great buy, IMO. I recently purchased a 2013 S for $7500 and I definitely would have paid another thousand for a 2015. Around here comparable 2015 S models cost $11,000 (almost half again what my car cost).

One thing to note, the 2015 S still has the 24 kWh battery, not the 30 kWh (however the 2013 SL also has a 24 kWh).
 
Thanks for all the help, folks. I truly appreciate your thoughts and reasoning! My process will move forward at its glacial pace, better informed to make a decision when the time comes.

Nagorak said:
A 2015 for $8500 is a really great buy, IMO.
Click to expand...

I agree. I found a no-haggle LEAF reseller in suburban Atlanta that has them all day long at that price. Normally, I think no-haggle is a scam, but these folks are VERY competitive. As of this morning, they have 46 used LEAFs; PM me for details, though it should be pretty obvious on Cars.com...
 

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