New 2013 SL Owner

Hi there fellow Leaf owners!

Allow me to introduce myself, since I'm new to this forum.

I go by Isaac on the web (kind of a pseudonym). My wife and I live in a town called Gunnison in the state of Colorado, USA. It's cold and snowy in the winter with mild summers. There are lots of mountains around here. I'm at 7,700ft/2,300m above sea level, with mountain passes that go up to as much as 11,500ft/3,500m every which way out of town and then back down to 5,000ft/1,500m or lower. We are close to the Black Canyon and both Crested Butte and Monarch ski areas. We work around town mostly. So far the most I've driven in a day and on a single charge has been about 75miles/120km. But with the cold and snow I have had to charge the Leaf during lunch just to make sure I wouldn't run out of battery power.

We don't have the best public EV charging infrastructure, but at least there is an infrastructure of the sort. There is a public charging station in town that's free, and since I drive mainly in town, I stop by there when I go for a cup of coffee. I'm about 60 miles away from the nearest level 2 charging stations both West (Montrose) and East (Salida). To the North there's one only 30 miles away in Crested Butte, but that's a dead end during the winter and 74 miles from Carbondale during the summer over a dirt road and two mountain passes. And to the South of here there's not much to charge from either. So far I've only driven to Crested Butte and back. I know I won't make it to the other towns with the steep mountain passes we have unless I do something to get a bit more range.

We bought our Leaf last November (2016). As far as I know I'm one of only two Leaf owners in the area. I don't even know of anyone else that even owns an EV, except for one guy 60 miles away in Salida that has a converted classic VW Beetle. I had owned over 20 vehicles in my life and just never could find something that provided the three main things that are most important to us: reliability, comfort and economy, until we found out about used Leafs (or is it Leaves?). We still own two other cars, a 1972 VW Super Beetle and a 1985 VW Golf diesel. I guess I've always been attracted to what most people would consider odd or different. Most people think I'm insane for owning an electric car in this part of the world. (They think the same about the air cooled car and the diesel car.)

So far we absolutely love our Leaf. I haven't even driven another vehicle since we got it, except once when we went to see the in-laws. We've been living through what the newspaper calls "Snowmaggedon." I've got stuck in the snow a few times in the Leaf, even with tire chains on, but nothing too hard to get out of. We've also had some cold, but not as much as usual. We awoke to -33°F/-36°C a couple Saturday's ago, but that's been about the coldest so far in the Leaf. I ended up jumping two other cars that day with my Leaf. :shock:

Questions and problems thus far

1. How do I get the headlights and taillights to stop frosting over and getting covered in snow?
2. I can no longer preheat my Leaf via NissanConnectEV (CarWings). From what I understand this is due to AT&T decommissioning their 2G service. What can I do about this seeing how I want to be able to preheat the Leaf more than once per day and at odd times using charging power?
3. I'd like to eventually make this our only car. I can rent for those time or two a month we need to go somewhere out of town. But any range extending ideas, enough to make it in the Leaf to the next public charging station 60 or 70 miles away, would be appreciated. For an example, if I made it to Salida, there are probably enough level 2 charging stations from there on for me to make it to Denver in a day.

1. Rain-X might be worth a try, but that's just a guess - be careful with it.

2. Nissan is offering a 3G modem upgrade for $199 out of pocket.

3. Slow down. Once you get down to 40MPH or so, and reduce the heater blower speed to the lowest setting, you can go significantly farther.

What year and sub-model is the car?

LeftieBiker said:

1. Rain-X might be worth a try, but that's just a guess - be careful with it.

2. Nissan is offering a 3G modem upgrade for $199 out of pocket.

3. Slow down. Once you get down to 40MPH or so, and reduce the heater blower speed to the lowest setting, you can go significantly farther.

What year and sub-model is the car?

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I was algo thinking of Rain-X, but ever since I bought the car it hasn't been warm enough to use the stuff. I tried using it on the windshield and windows, but with no luck since it's supposed to be at least 40°F/4°C for it to work. I see it's not approved for plastic lenses, but in a worse case scenario I guess I'd have to buy new plastic lenses?

I figured that slowing down would help a lot. After all the energy needed to resist the aerodynamic drag is equal to V^2•Cd•D. Any tips on how to drive like that on two lane (one lane each way), 65mph highways? :shock:

This is a 2013 SL. I'll try to upload pics when I get the time.

I figured that slowing down would help a lot. After all the energy needed to resist the aerodynamic drag is equal to V^2•Cd•D. Any tips on how to drive like that on two lane (one lane each way), 65mph highways? :shock:

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The trick is to go very slow when no one is behind you, and gently accelerate to 55 when someone is. In frigid weather, and especially with snowy roads, anyone expecting to go 65MPH at all times isn't being rational.

LeftieBiker said:

The trick is to go very slow when no one is behind you, and gently accelerate to 55 when someone is. In frigid weather, and especially with snowy roads, anyone expecting to go 65MPH at all times isn't being rational.

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Yes. I have been taking advantage of the slick roads to drive slower.

On the other hand there are a lot of irrational drivers. They think that just because they have a Subaru or 4WD makes them invincible. I remember one icy day over a dozen 4WD vehicles passed me, and all of them went off the road at some point ahead of me or passing me. I counted 14 off the road after I started counting. Idiots. As a former school bus driver I respect snow and ice.

Another idea I had was to advertise in the paper if anyone with a 240V outlet along the way would be willing to allow me to charge there. I'd like to get my EVSE upgraded to level 2 capability for that reason.

In the end, I need to take a day and have my brother follow me in his truck and just see how far I can drive the Leaf to see if it'll make it to the next town or not. It's the mountain passes around here that are a real threat to out-of-town range.

Unfortunately without a public EVSE or at least a 20a 240v outlet there is little you can do to extend your range, other than low down and reduce things like heat usage. Carrying around a generator just isn't practical, the ones you can actually lift are only 120v and would just take too long to charge the Leaf, the ones that are 240v and at least 20a are too heavy and bulky for one person to lift out of the back of the Leaf, IMO your only decent alternative is a 240v outlet. Of course a decent 120v outlet could also help but you'd have to be able to plug in for many many hours for it to make much of a difference. If you have access to a TT-30 or older RV outlet that can also give you decent charging speed even though it's 120v only, but you need the correct EVSE. You need one capable of 24a @ 120v, which the EVSEupgrade option is not, it basically tops out at 12a @ 120v and maxes out at 16a @ 120v if you purchase the optional cable adapter. No if you want decent 120v charging speed you'd need the correct EVSE. 24a @ 120v is like 12a @ 240v so not too bad.

In the past people have talked about mounting a larger generator on a pull behind trailer but even going that route you'd still need to stop driving to charge.

P.S. I like your tire chains in one of the photos, do they really help on snow covered roads? Do you also have winter tires? I've been thinking of getting some chains for my '12 that has "summer tires" as it's basically worthless in the snow, can you suggest a good brand/style? These are the ones I was looking at, their normally ~$30 but seem a bit higher, later in the year. Are they a big hassle to put on, I don't suppose you'd want to drive too long with them on dry pavement or once the road has cleared?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000VAKXVA/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2FOFVDA67L13W&coliid=IJ66SDQYWLNRY&psc=1

jjeff said:

Unfortunately without a public EVSE or at least a 20a 240v outlet there is little you can do to extend your range, other than low down and reduce things like heat usage. Carrying around a generator just isn't practical, the ones you can actually lift are only 120v and would just take too long to charge the Leaf, the ones that are 240v and at least 20a are too heavy and bulky for one person to lift out of the back of the Leaf, IMO your only decent alternative is a 240v outlet. Of course a decent 120v outlet could also help but you'd have to be able to plug in for many many hours for it to make much of a difference. If you have access to a TT-30 or older RV outlet that can also give you decent charging speed even though it's 120v only, but you need the correct EVSE. You need one capable of 24a @ 120v, which the EVSEupgrade option is not, it basically tops out at 12a @ 120v and maxes out at 16a @ 120v if you purchase the optional cable adapter. No if you want decent 120v charging speed you'd need the correct EVSE. 24a @ 120v is like 12a @ 240v so not too bad.

In the past people have talked about mounting a larger generator on a pull behind trailer but even going that route you'd still need to stop driving to charge.

P.S. I like your tire chains in one of the photos, do they really help on snow covered roads? Do you also have winter tires? I've been thinking of getting some chains for my '12 that has "summer tires" as it's basically worthless in the snow, can you suggest a good brand/style? These are the ones I was looking at, their normally ~$30 but seem a bit higher, later in the year. Are they a big hassle to put on, I don't suppose you'd want to drive too long with them on dry pavement or once the road has cleared?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000VAKXVA/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2FOFVDA67L13W&coliid=IJ66SDQYWLNRY&psc=1

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I just bought those at WalMart. Nothing special about the chains. They work pretty well I'd say.

A generator on a trailer and having to pull over just to get enough to make it to the next public charging station would be better than calling a tow truck.

Have you looked at Plugshare? As for determining range, it turns out that the '13+ Leafs have a pretty good range estimator hidden in the dash. Press the Blue button on the steering wheel, and you will see a map come up on the big display, with two concentric circles on it. The larger circle represents the same range estimated by the worthless 'Guess O Meter' on the dash, but the smaller, more pessimistic estimate is actually quite accurate.

LeftieBiker said:

Have you looked at Plugshare? As for determining range, it turns out hat the '13+ Leafs have a pretty good range estimator hidden in the dash. Press the Blue button on the steering wheel, and you will see a map come up on the big display, with two concentric circles on it. The larger circle represents the same range estimated by the worthless 'Guess O Meter' on the dash, but the smaller, more pessimistic estimate is actually quite accurate.

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Range at 78%.

Wow! Thanks for the blue button tip! I do see one flaw with it. If I were going straight it says I'd make it to Carbondale (the farthest north charging station). But Carbondale is 105 miles away and over two rather treacherous mountain passes, one of which is closed until June.

I have used Plugshare. Like I said, I just need to try getting to either Montrose (west) or Salida (east) and see if I make it there, then after charging, if I make it back. My brother can follow me in his pickup just in case. Or tow along a generator, just in case. Or put put a generator on a tail hitch rack, just in case.

Don't use the circle on the map if the roads are winding. Use the estimate in miles at the lower left - the lower number. This is one of those features that was only "discovered" recently, by another member here.

The "partial recirculate" feature is another: if you are in a ventilation mode that allows recirculation, turn that on, then press and hold the recirculate button just until the light above it flashes. After two or three flashes the light goes out, but you are now taking in about 30% fresh air, instead of 100% or none. It may take a little practice to do. It's hard to tell, but the car will "remember" this selection until the mode is changed again. By doing this you save energy that would otherwise be used to heat incoming frigid air, but still not fog the windows. This also allows you to use a trick that I discovered: if the climate control is in 'floor only' mode, the windshield vents will leak enough air to keep the windshield clear. You may have to use the second fan speed instead of the lowest, but doing this lets you use recirculate mode at will, easily, which you can't do with Floor + Defrost.

Wow thanks! Now I want to go charge her up to 100% to see what it says! It should say at least 60 miles I'm guessing. That would be borderline though. I also want to try the part/recycle feature. The nice thing around here is that in the summer the A/C is not needed.

Any idea how climbing to 11,000ft or better over Monarch pass would affect the range? The nice thing is that regen would help on the way down the other side!

No idea myself. The only mountain climbing I do with my car is a rather small local mountain with Grafton lakes State Park on top. There are others here who can answer that.

Montrose or Salida should be relatively easy with good weather (warm enough to not use heat), no wind or rain or snow. Since CO has lots of winter sun you might be quite comfortable even down to 30F. However, make sure to finish charging right before leaving, preheat if needed and carrying a long heavy gauge extension cord with the EVSE, preferably upgraded to 240 V. I've done 65 mi even at 20-30F with moderate hills and speed (45 mph). The hills definitely kill range going up but you get most of it back going down. The important factor is net elevation gain or loss and wind. However, these trips should only be for fun/vacation/outings and not routine or even every weekend. That's too much stress. Be prepared to spend the night somewhere or ask for assistance. See my signature for my longest trip, including several mountain passes.

I think Salida will definitely be doable if you are careful. I just drove from a quick charger in Monument all the way home in Morrison, about 58 miles. I started at only 79% and arrived at home with 28% and the GOM said I could do another 30 miles. I used the back highway 105 which was hilly and curvy. You can regen quite a bit on the downhills and if you accelerate downhill you can maintain a good 50-65mph at 4.5 miles/kwh. Depending on the hill I will either regen in D or B mode, or just shift to neutral and build up free speed.

The hills definitely kill range going up but you get most of it back going down.

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It may seem that way, but regen is only about 40% efficient at best.

LeftieBiker said:

It may seem that way, but regen is only about 40% efficient at best.

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From what I understand 25%-30% is about average for electric regen. An ultra capacitor pack might increase regen efficiency a bit.

If I ever make a range extending trailer of some sort, perhaps just a used Leaf battery on a trailer with a foldable solar panel, I'd be tempted to make a hydraulic drive regen system that's more like 70% efficient for the trailer.

How does hydraulic drive regen work? It's my understanding that the losses in normal regen are from conversion inefficiencies, so if hydraulic regen just adds a step, that should be lower overall, not higher...

LeftieBiker said:

How does hydraulic drive regen work? It's my understanding that the losses in normal regen are from conversion inefficiencies, so if hydraulic regen just adds a step, that should be lower overall, not higher...

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Hydraulic is it's own system. UPS is using it in their trucks as gasoline/hydraulic or diesel/hydraulic hybrids.

The idea is to add a hydraulic pump/motor to the driveline. When regen braking the pump pumps hydraulic fluid into a high pressure gas filled tank called an accumulator (there's a piston or bladder that separates gas from fluid). When acceleration is needed the fluid from the accumulator is forced through the hydraulic pump/motor, but with something reversed (like flow direction) which puts positive torque to the wheels and causes acceleration until the accumulator empties. UPS and others are seeing average 70% efficiencies and up to 40% savings in overall fuel economy.

The trailer idea would be a pusher trailer during acceleration and would have regen braking. It would be completely separate from the electric drive.

Interesting idea, but it sounds like it needs a heavy, expensive storage tank.