Want to buy a leaf, need to do 84 round trip 1x to 2x per month.

Hello All,
I live southwest of Denver
I am very much considering buying a 2016 SV with the 30kwh battery.
The rated range is 107 miles, but reading through the forums, it looks like this can change significantly with lower temperatures.

I work primarily about 15 miles from my house, so I am not worried about the 30 mile round trip there.

I do occasionally have to work at the IBM site in Boulder, which is 42 miles from my house. The parking lot is far from any buildings, and I have called the site coordinator and they were clear that there will be no electric car charging stations at any time in the near future.

The drive is rolling hills, with one steeper hill on the way home which is about 1 mile long. Speed limit is 65 for the first 10 or so miles, 55/45 after that.

I am fine with driving slowly, limiting heater use for a 1x trip per month to the office... Is it reasonable at all that I could reliably use the leaf for this commute? If not, there are two L3 charging stations on the way home, but I am concerned I cannot rely on them to always be available when I need them... How long would I have to sit at a L2 station to ensure a stress free trip home?

Thanks in advance for your advice.

L2 6.6 kWh charging rate is about 20 miles per hour of charge as long as the battery temperature is in the middle range of the temperature gauge.

I'd wait for the Chevy Bolt before I put down $ on a new Leaf. Reports are some people are getting nearly 300 miles on a singe charge.

http://insideevs.com/motley-fool-wonders-if-chevy-bolt-has-more-range-than-tesla-model-3/

Love the Leaf, but a longer range would allow me to sell one of my ICE's.

Forget about a long-term 85 mile round trip. Although it is possible when new, you cannot guarantee that you will be able to make it in hot, cold, as time goes on. The Leaf is really not made to be the only car in your garage, unless if you are a retired person and do not travel on long trips... If the Leaf HAS TO BE your only car, then the 85 mile trip is the deal-breaker.... Although with the 30kwh battery, it is possible to drive 82 miles, you would be driving it to the point of a low level of charge on the battery. I only am afraid of you draining the battery down to a low level, which I understand will deteriorate the battery more quickly.....

However, if you have an L2 charger along the trip, then you could charge at a range of about 30 miles of range per hour, which would make the Leaf good for you... Maybe once per week, you could stop to shop or eat for an hour while the car charges??

Even L-1 charging with the supplied cable will net you enough extra range if done for several hours. Did the facilities people ban charging period, or just say that there are no charging stations? All you need is an outdoor 120 volt outlet with 15 amps free.

With the wide-spread availability of L2 & L3 charging in the area (check out plugshare.com) I wouldn't be bothered by this trip. Yes, at some point you may not be able to make the round-trip without charging, but this is a once a month trip. With multiple L3's in boulder and Denver and a significant # of L2's consider the charging time your once a month gas station visit... The Nissan dealership from Aurora had some insanely low pricing on a group buy about a month ago, and the state credit is good too.

I wouldn't let this stop you, not that a Bolt with 200+ mile range wouldn't be nice for it... The price levels are likely to be somewhat different.

Yeah, I thought about waiting for the bolt or the Tesla, but I can get a new leaf
SV for about 11k once all is said and done. I doubt ill be able to get the bolt or Tesla for anywhere near that any time soon. If I don't get a leaf ill get a Honda fit or something similar.

I did notice there are several level 3 stations in Boulder, which would work well. Called Boulder Nissan and he said their stations are busy, but I should be able to get in without waiting longer than 30 min.

We have a minivan for long trips, but I can't steal it during the week for work. Basically, for 95% of the time, I drive leass than 30 miles a day.

About the charging at work, the building is pretty much surrounded by fences, parking lot is far from the building. I am thinking about driving around the site to see if I can find any outdoor outlets.

Based on everything I personally think a 30kwh Leaf would work out great for you. As long as stopping off for a charge once in a while doesn't bother you then there's really nothing to worry about. My 30kwh Leaf is my only car and it works great for me! I live in the twin cities and there are lots of L3 charging stations here so I have nothing to worry about. I could have waited for the Bolt or Tesla too but I'm impatient and I got a good deal on my Leaf.

Note that Nissan has been giving a Charge Point card with the first 30 minutes free at pay stations which gets you an 80% charge at a DC Fast Charger. You can log on to their web site and verify if there are any Charge Point DC Fast Charge stations on your 84 mile route that would make this no-cost option work for you. Charge up while stopped for coffee, shopping, etc.

https://na.chargepoint.com/charge_point

The SV with 30 kWh battery and heat pump climate control should be fine for your occasional 84-mile trip, especially at the moderate speeds you noted. Since you have public charging options along your route, a few minutes of charging would be enough to get you home even with significant battery deterioration (after several years of use). In my opinion, there is no harm in running the battery really low (even on a daily basis) so I routinely drive enough miles on a charge to hit LBW or VLBW (low battery warning or very low battery warning) with my 2015.

Gerry

My work is 90 miles roundtrip from my house & I have had no problems with the commute so far, typically get home with around 20 miles of range (I like the challenge of squeezing every mile per kWh), but I'm a newb Leaf owner. My company has a huge campus and garages with EVSE's but they can fill up quickly, which is not a problem as with the Chargepoint stations if somebody's charging you just swipe your card & you are placed next inline. Haven't had any problems yet as the price to charge is $.05/kwh, but after 4 hours goes up to $5/hour, so employees are motivated to unplug & move their EV's as soon as they get a full charge text from their cars & the next person inline gets a notification that the charger is ready as well. We have a Leaf forum at work so get to hear a lot of the personal stories & there are a bunch of people that have a similar long commute as me & haven't heard of anybody having problems with their Leaf's making the commute. I don't think you will have a problem with your distance & you quickly find out where the EVSE's are in your typical stopping points as added security, I have learned where a lot of them are near my stops really quick. I want to eventually own a Tesla, but am going to spend the next 3 years with my Leaf saving up for it. Good-luck!

I am a prospective Leaf 30kwh buyer with a 102 mile round-trip commute in Colorado. I plan to drive the car daily including in the summer and 120 v trickle charge the battery. It's reassuring reading your posts that current extended range leaf sv long commutes are feasible. Is there any data about range decrease for hot climate southwest US available? I'd like to know after how many miles/YEARS I will not be able to drive 51 miles one way without recharging. Is there any data at all about vehicle range vs miles driven, for example x miles range decrease after each 10,000 miles logged?

Hello All,
Thank you for the thoughts and advice. I ended up purchasing a 2016 leaf from Boulder Nissan (which is right by my workplace) and driving it home, arriving with 66% still left on the battery. Boulder nissan has a fast charger I can use, so my plan is to charge it in the morning on the way in, and that should give me plenty of charge to make it all the way back home.

After tax rebates, the car will come in at around $11k +taxes and registration. I couldn't pass it up. So far I really love the car. I haven't been completely happy with the app, it is slow and doesn't always connect, but the car is by far the smoothest quitest car I have ever been in. Makes our Toyota Sienna which is a very smooth and quite ride sound harsh and grindy.

So far the trickle charger does what I need, but if I have to take multiple long trips in a row I'll have to invest in a L2. I was initially worried about the mileage reduction from climate control. Given the weather has been pretty mild here, if I put the setting on something reasonable it hardly registers in power consumption.

People I show the car to are like, oh, so it doesn't take gas? How does it turn on? Where is the ignition?

ledog said:

I am a prospective Leaf 30kwh buyer with a 102 mile round-trip commute in Colorado. I plan to drive the car daily including in the summer and 120 v trickle charge the battery. It's reassuring reading your posts that current extended range leaf sv long commutes are feasible. Is there any data about range decrease for hot climate southwest US available? I'd like to know after how many miles/YEARS I will not be able to drive 51 miles one way without recharging. Is there any data at all about vehicle range vs miles driven, for example x miles range decrease after each 10,000 miles logged?

Click to expand...

Wow! Even with the 30 KWh battery, 102 mi RT commute will be difficult, if not impossible, under certain conditions. First, you CANNOT recharge 100 mi per day (no matter what size battery you have ) using just the 120 V, 12 Amp trickle cord overnight. It takes at least 24 hours to charge the 24 KWh battery, so I would assume that you'll need 30-35 hrs for the 30 KWh battery. You must charge with a level 2 (240 V) station somewhere (best at home at night). If you mean to L2 charge overnight and L1 trickle charge at work for 8-9 hrs, then that's another story, and it will probably work very well for many years. Second, you should NOT plan on driving 51 mi one-way (winter, snow, etc.) beyond the fifth year. Yes it will be possible in the summer and yes, you might make it six or ten winters, but you might not. The older 2011-2012 Leaf batteries are known to degrade. The newer 2013+ batteries have been shown to be "more robust" but are still degrading (it's possible that Nissan is actually producing a larger battery, but electronic limiting it to 34 or 30 KWh for the first 6-12 mo).

Mr. LeDog,

You cannot be planning long term commutes of over 100 miles round trip, especially on a daily basis. And you cannot completely recharge the car with a 120 volt charger... At about 5 miles of range per hour of charging, it would take a lot more than overnight. That is no way realistic, you would need a 240 volt charger.

Please do not let the idea of getting an electric car get the best of you... If that is your commute, then you should forget the leaf, and get a Prius.....

I am amazed on how many people want and expect the Leaf to do things it is not made for... Or are expecting the Leaf to perform like a Tesla.... Remember... The Tesla is only a high tech toy for the super-rich...

Thank you for the replies. I do plan to recharge every night using L2 so I start fully charged every morning. At work thought need to use 120 v trickle charge. In a new development my company decided to encourage EVs so they are planning to add a new L2 charging station. Thus I believe this is much less risky. In my estimate th

Thank you for the replies. I do plan to recharge every night using L2 so I start fully charged every morning. At work I thought need to use 120 v trickle charge. In a new development my company decided to encourage EVs so they are planning to add a new L2 charging station. Thus I believe this is much less risky. In my estimate if I assume 4 % range loss every 10k miles after 100k my range goes from about 100 miles to 60 miles (ideal driving conditions). I will need a new battery after 3 years or maybe 4. Is this degradation rate reasonable? If I making a miscalculation please let me know. I could not find any data about long commutes yet and the dealer is VERY confident it will work.

LeDog,

It depends on what your ultimate goals are and the fee if any for charging at work. Myself with free charging at work my cost basis will be mostly that of battery replacement at for arguments sake say 100,000 miles for $5,500. With current fuel prices at about $2 per gallon that's the equivalent of driving a 36 mpg gasoline powered automobile however I should be retired for many years in my mid to upper 80's by then hopefully getting free charging with my senior cup of coffee and my children/grandchildren dealing with the battery/car as I only drive about 23 miles per day round trip to work which is less than 5,000 miles per year. That's presuming that the battery does not corrode away internally or start leaking after 10 years/45,000 miles.

If you have to pay for charging at 12 cents per kwh and drive gently getting 4.5 miles per kwh that adds over $2,666 into the mix so your cost (battery replacement and electricity to charge it over its life) rises to around $8,200 which brings the combined economy down to about the equivalent of a little over 24 mpg however if you drive more aggressively or mostly on a 70 mph interstate you can drop that to an equivalent 20 mpg which is less than if you were driving a newer full sized pickup truck.

As far as economics go you may be better off as some suggested with a Prius for such a long daily commute.

ledog said:

Thank you for the replies. I do plan to recharge every night using L2 so I start fully charged every morning. At work I thought need to use 120 v trickle charge. In a new development my company decided to encourage EVs so they are planning to add a new L2 charging station. Thus I believe this is much less risky. In my estimate if I assume 4 % range loss every 10k miles after 100k my range goes from about 100 miles to 60 miles (ideal driving conditions). I will need a new battery after 3 years or maybe 4. Is this degradation rate reasonable? If I making a miscalculation please let me know. I could not find any data about long commutes yet and the dealer is VERY confident it will work.

Click to expand...

Good news! Yes, charging on both ends will work for at least 3 year, probably 4, and maybe even 5. Read TaylorSFGuy's story (135 mi RT Seattle commute, 2011 Leaf, "less than robust" 24 KWh battery):
http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=15286&p=343895&hilit=100000#p343895
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=21961

Your commute is "substantially" less so you'll reach 100,000 mi at 4 y instead of his 2.5 y. Also, notice that he reported about 80% capacity at 100,000 mi, which is probably the best anyone will see due to Seattle's perfect temps for EVs. Assuming that your 30 KWh battery lasts at least as long, then you'll have a 20-24 KWh battery at 100,000 mi, so maybe 5-10% loss per year. Certainly, the larger battery will be discharged and cycled to a lesser extent than the 24 KWh battery and you should expect less degradation.

Unfortunately, the big unknown is calendar loss, which may be less, the same, or even more for the new battery chemistry (of course we all hope that it is better). Although the differences between Seattle and CO ambient temps are known, the effect on the battery isn't. In the winter time you may discharge more, using more heat, driving through snow, etc. You will see less temperature-induced degradation in the winter, but probably more in the summer. Also, the solar input to the car will be MUCH higher (altitude, sunshine) so you should try to minimize that by parking in the shade or parking garage during the day. I would leave the car out of the garage at night in the summer, maybe even year-round, to maximize the evening ambient cooling effect. The good news is that you can buy the 6.6 KW charger and the more efficient heat-pump heating system, which were not options back in 2011. Both of these will help in the long run, especially if there is a charging station half-way between work and home. After 100,000 mi, TaylorSFGuy needed to stop and do a quick charge for a few minutes on each end of his commute.

Finally, please read my post below and links. Perhaps you can use his story, to convince your work that more charging stations are needed. This is the real deal and we've only go one earth to screw up.
http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=21961&p=461641&hilit=shellfish#p461641