Used Leaf buying strategies?

Hi I'm a new member doing a lot of reading on new and used leafs on this awesome forum. I'm wavering between finding a used leaf, or doing a 3 year lease on a 2016.

One thing is for certain is that used car dealers do NOT know anything about these cars. I have had to tell them over email how to read how many bars are on the dashboard and how to find out if it has the quick charge installed. I also really appreciate this listing:


So, are there any veteran tips on how an educated buyer could take advantage of this lack of knowledge by dealers? Would one be able to for instance score an older model with 12 bars that has a new battery?

Since they tend to overvalue Leafs rather than undervalue them, I suggest you look for a nice used 2012 with nine or even 8 bars, point out the low capacity, but don't mention the battery warranty to them. Just check the VIN with Nissan for the in-service date and to make sure the car is likely to be eligible for a new battery at 8 bars. Then drive a hard bargain with them and get the new pack yourself.

Thanks for the reply. Here is another anecdote: A dealer has a 2013 Leaf SV with 36k for $10,300 that he said had "12 bars" when I asked him about it. I asked for a photo and here it is.



Would this be a good contender to buying to aim to get a new battery, or too pricey to begin with?

The dealership I bought my Leaf from didn't know you could charge it at home. Seriously. The dealership was so far away, that they came and delivered it to my house for me to test drive. After the test drive I plugged it in to test the charger. Guy delivering the car said, "I didn't know you could plug it in at home. All the guys at the dealership were wondering where you were going to charge that thing." LOL

I also reached out to the dealership for the car, which originally was listed for $8k, with me splitting cost of delivery ($500, my half would have been $250), then after 2 days of talking with him online, I backed out. 3 days later the price was dropped down to $6000 plus the bogus documentation fee, bringing it to $6250. I didn't have it in mind when I backed out, but from now on, I will always walk away from the first deal I'm offered and wait for them to come back to me a few days later with something sweeter.

10 bars on my 2012, but it's likely just on the cusp of dropping down to 9 bars. Unless used Leafs sell fast, I think $10k is far too much. Check the carfax on it, it will tell you how long the dealer has been trying to sell it. If it's nearing 1 month, they'll likely deal.

Location does change the price sometimes dramatically. I was torn too between a used 2011 with 30,000+ miles on it with a failing battery for $7,000 or less if it had the DC Quick Charge and the 6.6 kWh Charger or a newer formulation 2014 with 16,000 miles similarly equipped with 12 bars on the battery looking like it just came off the showroom floor in the $9,000 price range. The 2014 won.

Around here $10,000 is what you would expect to pay for a 2013 SL with Leather and all the bells & whistles with 30,000 miles on it and 11 bars. $7,500 tops for the 9 bar 2013 SV with over 30,000 miles on it.

I went with a Mom and Pop Hybrid Repair Shop that also sells Hybrids/Plug In Electrics who understands the cars and even rebuilds or grid charges the batteries for you as one of their services. They only added the cost of the tax, title and registration along with $25 to cover his wife filing with the Tag Office and sending me the permanent registration plates. The dealer prints you a paper temporary plate if your not transferring registration and then sends you the metal plates via registered mail if you don't want to drive in to pick them up.

I get a kick out of the Mega Nissan Dealers here in the Tampa Bay who area trying to sweeten the deal with "Free Oil Changes for Life! WOW!"

In truth the brake fluid per the manual should be flushed annually when they rotate the tires while the coolant unless you are driving in extreme stop and go traffic all the time is good for 120,000 miles. I have a good Firestone Tire shop locally who knows how to use their Hunter Alignment Machines and will probably have them do a lifetime alignment on the car when I change the tires and let rotate the tires and check the alignment for free every year after that.

Thanks for the replies. After expanding my range, I find similar cars around 8k, albeit 120 miles away, but at least I know not to pay 10k for something close by.

Still hard to get info on bars, quick charge, 6.6kw, etc, but probably worth the savings.

Would you trust a "12 bar" 2013 model sold by a car lot? I now they can be rebooted to appear to be 12 bars for awhile.

If the 2013 with 9 bars has Premium Package, I'd say consider it, maybe for $9k if they'll deal. Alternatively, if the in-service date hasn't yet passed, ask them to give you a "4 year" (actually one year after the bumper to bumper warranty expires) "new car" Nissan Gold Plan warranty, either for free or for no more than $350. That will give you another year's full warranty. Also look at the build month on the door jamb label. I'm betting it was between January and March of 2013. It isn't just dealers who reset the BMS but also wholesalers, so even an honest dealer can get one. That's why you need to use LeafSpy on any "12 bar" Leaf before buying it.

Dang you guys know your stuff. I got a photo of the VIN plate, build date is 02/2013 so this an older chemistry battery. If I've learned from this forum you want 03/2013 or later, is that correct?

One other question, I know how to look for 1) battery bars 2) Quick Charge 3) Build Date but I don't know how to identify 4) 6.6kW and 5) Heat Pump heater. Any tips on spotting those from dealer photos?

Thanks.

The build date for the "Maybe Lizard" packs is from 4/13 on. March is still the old chemistry. I was fairly sure you were looking at a "Canary Pack" car because the newer chemistry doesn't seem to lose more than one bar, at least at this point in time. As for the 6.6kw charger and heat pump, you don't need photos, just year and model, unless it's an S. A 2013+ SV or SL will have both the bigger charger and heatpump. No pre-2013 Leaf will have either. The S is the tricky one: it won't ever have the heatpump, but if it has a QC port it will have the 6.6 charger. So look for "Charge Package" as an option on an S if you want the faster charger. You can also look in photos for two bright orange cables running under the hood, to the nose. Those go to the QC port.

Thanks for all the helpful info, I'm starting to wrap my head around the trim levels and options based on your info and the dated but still helpful page here: http://insideevs.com/used-nissan-leaf-buying-guide/.

Here is a chart I put together to compare 2013 listings within 150 miles of me that are under 10k. I still have to piece together info about bars, and even if I can trust that bar info.

Also, found this 2013 with 5/2013 build date with 11 bars. The Carfax mentions a battery replacement in 2014. Do you think this is main battery or the 12v battery?

^^^
It's likely the 12 volt. The 12 volt on mine bit the dust at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=440106#p440106. Car's build month was 5/2013 and original in-service date was towards the end of 6/2013.

FWIW, I still have all 12 bars. My readings as of a week ago were http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=470462#p470462. My SOH and Hx have gone up slightly due to deeper discharging of my HV battery recently.

I haven't done a LeafSpy reading since late Spring, but still have 12 bars as well.

Surfhawk, you need to decide if you want to get the most remaining capacity possible, for more money, or try to get a new pack on a nine (or ideally, eight) bar car and spend less. I do suggest you not get anything with 10 or 11 bars.

Wow! I see you guys getting cars for $6-8,000 and am getting jealous!! I almost feel bad that I bought my Leaf Brand New! Even if you eventually need a new $5,000 battery, you got a pretty new leaf for $11,000!! Rock on...

LeftieBiker said:

Surfhawk, you need to decide if you want to get the most remaining capacity possible, for more money, or try to get a new pack on a nine (or ideally, eight) bar car and spend less. I do suggest you not get anything with 10 or 11 bars.

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Good advice. I had been putting 11 bars in the good category, but you'd suggest skipping 11 and either going 12 at a premium or 8/9 at a discount? That certainly changes my mindset. It's hard to trust a "12 bar" ad but as you guys have shown, there are 12 bar 2013's out there. I just need to learn to use LeafSpy so when I show up I know what I'm looking at.

What LeafSpy numbers would confirm a 12 bar car is legit?

SurfHawk said:

What LeafSpy numbers would confirm a 12 bar car is legit?

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There's a value on LeafSpy called AHr. A new battery's AHr is 66, 1 bar is lost around 50, 2 bars lost around 46, 3 lost around 42, etc. One of the hallmarks of a Battery Management System reset (also known as BMS reset, i.e. tampering with the number of bars) is a low AHr reading on Leafspy (like 40-45) but 12 capacity bars on the dash display.

Meanwhile, SOH (State of Health) is on a percentage scale from 1 to 100% of original battery capacity. Percentages are easier for people to wrap their heads around, so it's convenient to use that scale. However, SOH apparently ALSO gets reset if a dealer resets the BMS/resets the dashboard bars. So always check AHr first - Again, if the AHr is low and the bars are high, it's been tampered with. But if the AHr is appropriately high, you can either directly use the AHr to approximate how close it is to losing a bar, OR you can look at the SOH to see approximately what percentage of battery capacity is intact.

*** Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this. I'm not an expert, but I'm also searching for a good used Leaf and have been doing some digging on the forums... This thread is my source for the info: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=21919&

Thanks surely, your info, and the info in the thread you linked are very helpful.

Good advice. I had been putting 11 bars in the good category, but you'd suggest skipping 11 and either going 12 at a premium or 8/9 at a discount? That certainly changes my mindset. It's hard to trust a "12 bar" ad but as you guys have shown, there are 12 bar 2013's out there. I just need to learn to use LeafSpy so when I show up I know what I'm looking at.

Click to expand...

If you are using LeafSpy, then a car with barely 12 bars is virtually the same as one with a full 11 bars. I had assumed you would be using dash gauge readings as the basis for your search. That's why I tell people to assume one less bar than they see on the dash for range, if they can't use LeafSpy. Assuming no BMS reset, as solid 12 bar car should read above 90% SOH. A marginal 12 bar car (as most are) would be between 87 and 90%. 86 or 85% and it's soon going to have 11 bars, as 85% is about where the 12th bar drops.

powersurge said:

Wow! I see you guys getting cars for $6-8,000 and am getting jealous!! I almost feel bad that I bought my Leaf Brand New! Even if you eventually need a new $5,000 battery, you got a pretty new leaf for $11,000!! Rock on...

Click to expand...

The "Off Lease" company is saturating the market with them at low prices which is probably helping drive the local market down but watch out as many are accident cars. With dealers trying to unload 2015 and 2016 models the rest of the vehicles coming off lease are going to lower bidders at the auctions. An off lease 2015 SV at a Nissan dealer with 45 miles on it can be seen listed for $15,800 while one at a independent with a few thousand miles on it can be had for closer to $13,000 while a 2014 Leaf S with 16,000 miles can be had from an independent dealer for a little over $9,000. Shop around Craigs List and AutoTrader and you might be surprised what you see if you broaden your search to 50 or 75 miles.

Here is the Leaf I think I'll see tomorrow, it's from an independent dealer who bought it at auction and is getting it today on the truck. Was hoping for an SV but this has QC and camera. I'll miss the heat pump but the other SV things I'm probably ok with.

2013 S for $7,900
12 Bars
04/2013 build date
23,000 miles
Quick Charge
Backup Camera
One owner carfax

I bought a bluetooth reader and LeafSpy, so my goal is to look at AHr and SOH and make a decision. Other things I plan to check on, anything else:
- Non smoking
- Have the charger cable?
- Two Key FOBS?

Here is the dash photo: