Will a Used Leaf work for this commute?

I live in Southern California and am commuting between 50 and 60 miles a day, the first half of which is at normal freeway speeds and the second half of which is in stop and go traffic. I am wanting to get a used 2013 Leaf SL (with a manufacture date after 04/13). I will be getting LeafSpy to verify the battery specs of a particular car before I buy it. I have a couple of questions you all can hopefully help me with.

1) What is the lowest SOC% or A-Hr rating I will need the used car battery to have in order to be able make that commute without sweating bullets?

2) I hear that most people recommend only charging up to 80% and only discharging to within 20%. I don't believe that is possible with my commute and the range of a Leaf. Is there any insight into what the best charging level would be for my commute to extend the battery as long as possible? Is charging to 90% better than to 100%? Is it worth it if you have worry about losing range at the end of a commute in stop and go traffic?

3) How much would an average battery pack degrade in the Southern California climate year to year? Parked outside at all times but in the beach communities where temps rarely reach 90s. Keep in mind I might have to charge the battery to full capacity to work for my commute.

All of these detailed questions are trying to get at one central question. Will a used 2013 Leaf work with my commute for the next 3-4 years? If yes, what is the value of the battery specs I will need to make sure that a particular Leaf will work?

Thank you very much for your time in advance

1) Dunno. Define normal freeway speeds, is this 80 or 55? Huge difference. There is a chart here somewhere that can really help narrow down the kwh required.

2) Correct, I wouldn't worry about 80% or even 90% with that commute.

3) Sorry

Just a rough estimate: (80%-20%) x 21 kWh = 12.6 kWh. 60 mi/12.6 kWh = 4.76 mi/kWh.
The 21 kWh is estimated to be the max available from a new 24 kWh battery. As the battery degrades, this will probably be closer to 15 kWh. Eventually, you'll need to charge to 100% anyway (since it's not really 100% anymore). For your commute, I wouldn't worry about charging to 100% as long as you leave within an hour or two.

Now, I can easily get 5 mi/kWh in town (in Summer, not Winter) at less than 40 mph, but I'm pretty sure that you won't get that on the freeway. However, for a 50 mi drive, the above calculates to just under 4 mi/kWh, more reasonable for highway driving (not 75 mph, but maybe around 55 mph). All of this assumes NO heat or AC, bad weather, detours, etc. If it were me, I'd make sure there were several emergency charging stations along my normal route, have some e-books along, and be ready for some "unexpected" events.

As for average degradation, there is a huge amount of information here: http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Nissan_Leaf
http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Battery_Capacity_Loss#Battery_Aging_Model

LAEVNewbie said:

I live in Southern California and am commuting between 50 and 60 miles a day, the first half of which is at normal freeway speeds and the second half of which is in stop and go traffic.

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Is this 60 miles one way, or return? Do you have somewhere to charge at work, even if only L1?

Thank you. Those links really helped me hone in on the math I need to figure this out. I am posting my math here in the hope that somebody can double my assumptions.

Every Used Leaf I see has at least one capacity bar which means between 78.5-85% capacity which for an average is 82% of 21 kWh = 17.2kWh. So for the first half of my drive (30 miles at freeway speeds 55-65 mph) at 4mi/kWh I will have used 7.5 kWh. So I will have basically 10kWh left. So if my stop and go driving (with low amount of AC running) gets me 4 mi/kWh then I will end the day at 3.5 kWh which means I will be getting a Very Low Battery warning every day. And if the battery degrades to 75% then I will only have 15.75 kWh and would basically be running the battery to near empty every day.

So it seems to me that a Used Leaf just isn't practical for a 60 mile commute. I'd be on the hairy edge from day one and sitting on a time bomb. Are any of the above assumptions wrong?

I have 60 mile mostly highway commute that I average 13 - 14 kWh round trip or 4.3 mi/kWh. My Leaf has all battery bars, 85% Hx, 58Ah and charges to 19.1 kWh on "100% charge" (which is really 90% SOC or 4.12 V per cell, Leaf will not let the cells charge to 4.2 V). I come back home with 4 - 5 kWh left and sometimes get first low battery warning pulling up to the driveway.

I think 75% Hx would be the cutoff point for this trip (leaving only 2.2kWh or 12% SOC), so I probably can survive another year or two commuting like that. Keep in mind that one battery bar missing may mean 70% Hx which would not work for your trip. You should look for used Leaf with recently replaced battery.

On Leafspy, SOH, is the number you will be looking at for capacity, HX is a little more nebulous calculated value that is not fully understood. I would not want to do the commute the OP mentions, with a used Leaf, or even a new 24 kWh leaf, unless I had absolutely reliable charging at work. I would consider a newer Leaf with the 30kWh battery. But a used Volt or Prius would probably be the better economical choice.

Agree with consensus. If you had charging at work then no problem. You may also want to be on the lookout for a 2013 either eligible or about to be eligible for a battery warranty replacement. However as your in CA the 7500 fed and the 2500 CA credit along with some negotiation may get you into a 2016 with the 30 KW battery for a nominal increase of your budget. Then you're set. Of course there's that Bolt on the horizon...

LAEVNewbie said:

So it seems to me that a Used Leaf just isn't practical for a 60 mile commute. I'd be on the hairy edge from day one and sitting on a time bomb. Are any of the above assumptions wrong?

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Nope, I think that's a pretty good assessment. Remember, that the original Leaf had a 75 mi EPA range (mix highway and low speed stop/go) when new. A 60 mi commute meant daily charging to 100% and discharge to close to LBW or VLBW daily. I can still "do" 60 mi on my 2011 with 10 bars, but not for a daily commute, and certainly only under the best conditions. I wouldn't want to try it at 20 F (not that you get those temps down there).