Deciding between two 2013 Leafs: lower miles or more bars? (Need answer fast!)

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commasense

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Aug 26, 2016
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Vegas, baby!
I'm about to buy my first EV, and I'm trying to decide between two 2013 Leaf SVs:

Silver has 22,000 miles and a supercharger port, but is showing 9 bars. Dealer is asking $11,000.

White has 32,000 miles, but is showing 10 bars. $10,000

Otherwise the two are pretty much identical.

My wife will be using it for her 10-mile daily commute, and we have a Honda Accord that we can use for longer trips when necessary. So the supercharger feature is not that essential to us. I'm even debating whether to bother getting a Level 2 charger. I figure we'll try Level 1 for the first few weeks/months and see.

So my questions are:

1. Should I be concerned about 9 bars in Silver?

2. Will I regret not having a supercharger if I buy White?

3. What value should I put on the mileage difference between them? Is it better to have 10,000 fewer miles or one more bar?

4. The dealer claimed both these cars have the lizard battery. Is this probable?

5. What else should I check, should I ask the dealer, should I be concerned about, in deciding which, if either, of these cars to buy?

I need your help quickly, because the dealer is closed tomorrow (Sunday), and I'd like to go back to him on Monday to make an offer.

Thanks!
 
i bet some will say "go for the 9 bar and hope to lose another so you can get the free battery under warranty".

I'm not sure.

Get a Bluetooth Dongle for the OBDII port and install LeafSPY pro edition and get reading from both cars.
 
Actually, I may have gotten the bar count wrong. Is the usual practice to count all bars, including the two red ones?

The salesman said 10 for White and 9 for Silver, but he was only counting white bars, not the red, IOW, if counting red bars, it's 12 for White and 11 for Silver. Sorry for the confusion.
 
yes, RED ones are included so you have a 12 bar car there. Make sure it is the little thin line on the right, not the chunky ones to the left that show battery charge.

Get LeafeSpy and a OBDII reader to have a nosy around the car under the hood so to speak.
 
Just found another difference between them: White was built in June 2013, Silver in February 2013. Does that make it more likely that White has a lizard battery? How can I find out for sure?

Probably not going to be able to get LeafSpy by Monday.
 
There are probably better links, but this one that was my #2 Google hit is good enough to clarify which bars describe how full the battery currently is (the long, radially-inward ones), and which ones show how much the battery can hold (the short outer arc segments). When people speak of capacity bars, they're talking about the outside arcs, as indicated in the picture.

Next: I think we all know what you mean by "supercharger", but it would be good if you didn't get into the habit of calling it that. "Supercharger" is almost a Tesla name brand, to the point where it's almost always meant to refer to the network of fast-charging stations (and the free-for-life charging privileges that go with them) that are reserved, at least for the moment, for Tesla vehicles only. The "DC fast charging port" that is available on many/most LEAFs uses a different charging standard: the "CHAdeMO" standard.
 
I would take more bars, instead of low miles, the battery is really what matters with these, not so much the miles. The only caveat is, I might chose a car that was about to drop to 8 bars and would still be within warranty to qualify for a free replacement battery pack.

You should count all the tiny bars on the far right, both red and white.
 
Neither of those cars has the Lizard pack. The one built in February has a pack that degrades as fast as the pre-2013 packs, and the one made in June...is an anomaly. One bar lost wouldn't surprise me, but two gone suggests that it was in a very hot climate, as the 4/2013+ cars rarely lose more than one bar. Frankly, I'd pass on both of them. If I had to pick one, I'd get the 9 bar car, and try for a free replacement pack.
 
commasense said:
I'm about to buy my first EV, and I'm trying to decide between two 2013 Leaf SVs: ...
Click to expand...

Don't be in a rush to make a purchase. Don't buy a non-Nissan extended warranty, or any maintenance/service packages. Get pre-approved for a loan (try OneNevada Credit Union), and you will be in a better position to negotiate a price.

I'm guessing these are the two at the Volvo dealer. They are both lease returns from Southern California that were purchased at auction. The one built in February 2013 came from the Santa Barbara area, which is probably why it is only showing one bar lost. The one built in June 2013 came from the Anaheim area. It has a better battery, but it is not a 'Lizard' pack (these were 'announced' for the 2015 model year).

There is a 2013 SV in Phoenix, that is also a California lease return bought at auction, with 29,000 miles listed for $8473. CarFax shows it manufactured in May 2013, so it would have a better battery (but not a 'Lizard' pack). A search on Autotrader shows 62 Leafs in a 300 mile radius, all 2013 SV and SL models.
 
baustin said:
commasense said:
I'm about to buy my first EV, and I'm trying to decide between two 2013 Leaf SVs: ...
Click to expand...

Don't be in a rush to make a purchase....
Click to expand...
+1
Leafs are very much a buyers market. Now it sounds like you may be in a bit of a hurry because of the state of your current vehicle but generally Leafs are quite prolific in the used market.
I'd try and stick to 4/'13 or newer and one that had the QC/faster L2 or home charging. If you plan on minimal mileage and don't think you'll get home L2 charging or are OK with about 40% slower L2 charging then maybe that part isn't too important to you. I like the quick turnaround I get with my 27.5a 240v L2 EVSE but standard L2 is 16a and is still much better than lowly 120v @ 12a.
 
commasense said:
I'm about to buy my first EV, and I'm trying to decide between two 2013 Leaf SVs:

Silver has 22,000 miles and a supercharger port, but is showing 9 bars. Dealer is asking $11,000.

White has 32,000 miles, but is showing 10 bars. $10,000

Otherwise the two are pretty much identical.

My wife will be using it for her 10-mile daily commute, and we have a Honda Accord that we can use for longer trips when necessary. So the supercharger feature is not that essential to us. I'm even debating whether to bother getting a Level 2 charger. I figure we'll try Level 1 for the first few weeks/months and see.

So my questions are:

1. Should I be concerned about 9 bars in Silver?

2. Will I regret not having a supercharger if I buy White?

3. What value should I put on the mileage difference between them? Is it better to have 10,000 fewer miles or one more bar?

4. The dealer claimed both these cars have the lizard battery. Is this probable?

5. What else should I check, should I ask the dealer, should I be concerned about, in deciding which, if either, of these cars to buy?

I need your help quickly, because the dealer is closed tomorrow (Sunday), and I'd like to go back to him on Monday to make an offer.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

something is wrong here... VERY wrong. I don't think even Phoenix is hot enough to lose that many bars that fast
 
Firetruck41 said:
I would take more bars, instead of low miles, the battery is really what matters with these, not so much the miles. The only caveat is, I might chose a car that was about to drop to 8 bars and would still be within warranty to qualify for a free replacement battery pack.

You should count all the tiny bars on the far right, both red and white.
Click to expand...

ummm...hmmm?? maybe, maybe not. I am guessing after driving the car, it will be used a lot more than its 10 mile work commute which means which car is likely to qualify for a battery exchange which would be a lizard battery and a MUCH better pack...
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
Firetruck41 said:
I would take more bars, instead of low miles, the battery is really what matters with these, not so much the miles. The only caveat is, I might chose a car that was about to drop to 8 bars and would still be within warranty to qualify for a free replacement battery pack.

You should count all the tiny bars on the far right, both red and white.
Click to expand...

ummm...hmmm?? maybe, maybe not. I am guessing after driving the car, it will be used a lot more than its 10 mile work commute which means which car is likely to qualify for a battery exchange which would be a lizard battery and a MUCH better pack...
Click to expand...

If you didn't see the OP later clarified, the 9 and 10 bars were referring to the white bars, not including the red bars, so they are actually 11 and 12 bar cars...
 
Thanks for all the replies, folks. We are not in a big hurry, and could wait months. There's nothing wrong with the Accord.

Our main complaint with these two is the color. My wife would prefer blue or red to either of these, and of the two, we like the Silver color better, but I think the white car is the better choice.

So to those of you saying to pass on these two, what should we be holding out for instead?

I'd try and stick to 4/'13 or newer and one that had the QC/faster L2 or home charging. If you plan on minimal mileage and don't think you'll get home L2 charging or are OK with about 40% slower L2 charging then maybe that part isn't too important to you. I like the quick turnaround I get with my 27.5a 240v L2 EVSE but standard L2 is 16a and is still much better than lowly 120v @ 12a.
Click to expand...
I hope someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought all 2013 SVs were capable of L2 charging. The "super charging" I erroneously referred to in the OP was L3, which the Silver car has but the White one we're now leaning to doesn't. If the White one doesn't have L2 charging capability, we won't get it, so please tell me if you think that is the case.
 
Firetruck41 said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
Firetruck41 said:
I would take more bars, instead of low miles, the battery is really what matters with these, not so much the miles. The only caveat is, I might chose a car that was about to drop to 8 bars and would still be within warranty to qualify for a free replacement battery pack.

You should count all the tiny bars on the far right, both red and white.
Click to expand...

ummm...hmmm?? maybe, maybe not. I am guessing after driving the car, it will be used a lot more than its 10 mile work commute which means which car is likely to qualify for a battery exchange which would be a lizard battery and a MUCH better pack...
Click to expand...

If you didn't see the OP later clarified, the 9 and 10 bars were referring to the white bars, not including the red bars, so they are actually 11 and 12 bar cars...
Click to expand...

saw that so you think neither car will qualify because its pretty obvious the one won't come close?
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
Firetruck41 said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
ummm...hmmm?? maybe, maybe not. I am guessing after driving the car, it will be used a lot more than its 10 mile work commute which means which car is likely to qualify for a battery exchange which would be a lizard battery and a MUCH better pack...
Click to expand...

If you didn't see the OP later clarified, the 9 and 10 bars were referring to the white bars, not including the red bars, so they are actually 11 and 12 bar cars...
Click to expand...

saw that so you think neither car will qualify because its pretty obvious the one won't come close?
Click to expand...
Just seems like more of a gamble than a sure thing, so I would just get the one with better battery, that's all. Obviously opinions differ.
 
Firetruck41 said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
Firetruck41 said:
If you didn't see the OP later clarified, the 9 and 10 bars were referring to the white bars, not including the red bars, so they are actually 11 and 12 bar cars...
Click to expand...

saw that so you think neither car will qualify because its pretty obvious the one won't come close?
Click to expand...
Just seems like more of a gamble than a sure thing, so I would just get the one with better battery, that's all. Obviously opinions differ.
Click to expand...

ok just clarifying my position in that "more of a gamble" does not mean "no gamble"

Vegas is more than hot enough to suffer degradation at an advanced rate so I would not consider getting used unless I saw a new lizard battery down the road. too many people here caught a few months or a few thousand miles too far...
 
I hope someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought all 2013 SVs were capable of L2 charging. The "super charging" I erroneously referred to in the OP was L3, which the Silver car has but the White one we're now leaning to doesn't. If the White one doesn't have L2 charging capability, we won't get it, so please tell me if you think that is the case.
Click to expand...

All Leafs have L-2 ports, but the onboard charger in the 2011-2012, and in all S models that don't have the Charge Package is 3.3kw, while the newer SV, SL, and S with Charge Package have a twice-as-fast 6.6kw onboard charger. All Leafs charge at the same rate on L-1, but L-2 charging away from home is much slower with the 3.3kw cars.
 

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