Looking to buy a used Leaf, need advice

Hi all

I am new to these forums and am really interested in buying a Leaf. Since the answers to whether that is a good choice seem to vary based on who is asking, I wanted to ask my own questions in this thread.


I have a fairly short drive to work and back (30 miles or less depending on the route I take). I live in Birmingham, AL. I currently drive a 2010 Prius and now want a second car for our family and am looking to buy a USED Leaf.

1. Which version of the Leaf should I get? I was thinking later than 2013 and preferably an SV or SL.

2. I am finding these between 10k-15k in my area with 20k miles driven on the average. Is that an acceptable price?

3. How do I ensure I am not getting a lemon in terms of the battery, which as I understand it, is the biggest worry about a used Leaf?

4. If the answer to that is a Leaf Spy, which OBD scanner should I buy that will work with it? Is there a link that will tell me how to do this?

Thanks

Jay

You want a 2013 or later SV, built *after* 3/13. Early 2013 builds may as well be 2012 cars as far as battery life usually goes. The build date is on the Driver's side door jamb. The price you quote is on the high side of normal, so make sure the car has Premium Package, and if you have any DCFC stations in your area, the QC option as well. If you don't want or need these options, negotiate a lower price for a car that lacks them. You want a car with 12 capacity bars showing, and no reason to think the car's battery management system has been reset to falsely show 12 bars. Others can guide you to an appropriate BT code reader. Make sure all recalls have been done on a 2013, except the second seat sensor recall, which is still pending parts. The latter may make it hard to buy a 2013 from a dealer.

I have a '13S and am quite happy with it, although if you like certain options like cruise or other options you might like a SV or SL better. A S leaf still has lots of options IMO and things like a heated steering wheel(on the S) is only on other vehicles Platinum models, if they even offer that.
I have this OBDII reader and it works great, can't beat ~$13 shipped from Amazon or probably other places.
Leaf prices sure seem to vary by area, I guess I'd keep an eye for several weeks if not months in your area and see what they seem to be selling for, in my area what you said would be good prices.
With your short commute I wouldn't be afraid of a Leaf missing a bar or two, especially if it dropped the price by several thousand dollars.
The bars on the dash will give you a general idea of the battery capacity but you need something like Leafspy(lite or trial version is free and works quite well) and the OBDII adapter. Note if you have a iPhone things get more difficult, you need a WiFi adapter(not Bluetooth) and a special version of LeafSpy.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00PJPHEBO/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
The Leaf is a great little car for zipping around town, a perfect mate for a Prius family. Use the Prius for longer trips(or you need to haul a lot) and the Leaf for everything else.
My wife has a Prius and I have the Leaf but once I'm home from work both of us basically only use the Leaf, again unless we need the Prius for whatever reason.

jjeff said:

Note if you have a iPhone things get more difficult, you need a WiFi adapter(not Bluetooth) and a special version of LeafSpy.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00PJ ... UTF8&psc=1

Click to expand...

Just a follow up... if you have a recent vintage iPhone (4s or newer, or a recent iPad), LeafSpy works fantastic over Bluetooth with a "BLE" OBD-II adapter (Bluetooth Low Energy, a new version supported by iPhone). You no longer need to get a WiFi OBD-II unit. Here is the one I am using with LeafSpy Pro on my iPhone 6S:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00QJRYMFC

You can use LeafSpy to verify the Ah capacity and SOH% match up with the thin battery capacity bars shown on the instrument cluster. Where a car is from can also tell you what kind of heat the battery went through. Up here in Seattle most of the used cars the dealers bring in are from Georgia, which had incredible tax incentives resulting in crazy-low lease payments.

Some of the more savvy dealers will offer to show you a LeafSpy report on any of their cars... just as many now offer CarFax reports for you. Anything to help sell cars, I guess.

The other option is new. The same factors pushing down used prices makes for affordable new prices. My 2016 SV with Premium Package will end up costing me about $20K in the end, including all discounts, incentives, and tax credits. That was in May. I imagine discounting will continue to improve through the year and varies considerably market-by-market.

jjeff said:

I have a '13S and am quite happy with it, although if you like certain options like cruise or other options you might like a SV or SL better. A S leaf still has lots of options IMO and things like a heated steering wheel(on the S) is only on other vehicles Platinum models, if they even offer that.

The Leaf is a great little car for zipping around town, a perfect mate for a Prius family. Use the Prius for longer trips(or you need to haul a lot) and the Leaf for everything else.
My wife has a Prius and I have the Leaf but once I'm home from work both of us basically only use the Leaf, again unless we need the Prius for whatever reason.

Click to expand...

There is a 2013 S being offered for $10000 near where I live. I would love to buy it, but one thing that I thought the 2013 S lacked was quick charging using currently available home charging systems for the Leaf. Is that true? Or does that depend on the options that the original buyer chose to customize it with? if so, I might drive the 60 miles to go look at the car. I know the dealer wants to sell it quickly and I might be able to bargain a better price for it.

I am also excited about adding the Leaf as our second car. In a few years, since I most likely won't buy it new, I may sell the Prius and buy the Bolt if its as nice as its advertised to be!

gshepherd said:

Just a follow up... if you have a recent vintage iPhone (4s or newer, or a recent iPad), LeafSpy works fantastic over Bluetooth with a "BLE" OBD-II adapter (Bluetooth Low Energy, a new version supported by iPhone). You no longer need to get a WiFi OBD-II unit. Here is the one I am using with LeafSpy Pro on my iPhone 6S:

<span>https://www.<a href="http://www.ama..."_blank">Amazon</a>.com/gp/product/B00QJRYMFC</span>

You can use LeafSpy to verify the Ah capacity and SOH% match up with the thin battery capacity bars shown on the instrument cluster. Where a car is from can also tell you what kind of heat the battery went through. Up here in Seattle most of the used cars the dealers bring in are from Georgia, which had incredible tax incentives resulting in crazy-low lease payments.

Some of the more savvy dealers will offer to show you a LeafSpy report on any of their cars... just as many now offer CarFax reports for you. Anything to help sell cars, I guess.

Click to expand...

LeftieBiker said:

You want a 2013 or later SV, built *after* 3/13. Early 2013 builds may as well be 2012 cars as far as battery life usually goes. The build date is on the Driver's side door jamb. The price you quote is on the high side of normal, so make sure the car has Premium Package, and if you have any DCFC stations in your area, the QC option as well. If you don't want or need these options, negotiate a lower price for a car that lacks them. You want a car with 12 capacity bars showing, and no reason to think the car's battery management system has been reset to falsely show 12 bars. Others can guide you to an appropriate BT code reader. Make sure all recalls have been done on a 2013, except the second seat sensor recall, which is still pending parts. The latter may make it hard to buy a 2013 from a dealer.

Click to expand...

Thanks @LeftieBiker and @gshepherd


1. Am I right in understanding that the 2013 S, unless it has the Charge package, will have only the 3.6 kW charging option, which using a standard 110 volt outlet will take 20 odd hours to go from 0-100% charge?

2. If I get a 220V outlet set up in my garage, can I use an EVSE upgrade like this one to significantly improving my charging time even when using the 3.3 kW on board charger found in the S?

http://evseupgrade.com/?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=2

3. How much of an improvement does the 6.6 kW option provide over the 3.3 kW for charging at home if I use a 220V outlet? That is not very clear to me right now.

If there are is not much of an improvement for home charging, considering the fact that I live in an area with very few options for charging at work or in public spots, I may as well go with the 2013 S even without the Charge package.

I hope I make sense. All this is new to me, and I may have made assumptions that are wrong, so feel free to tell me if I am not getting this right.

Also all I need to do to check the car using Leaf Spy is to connect the OBD scanner to the port in the car, turn on bluetooth on the phone and connect to the scanner and then use Leaf Spy to look for SOH and other required numbers?

Thanks,

1. Am I right in understanding that the 2013 S, unless it has the Charge package, will have only the 3.6 kW charging option, which using a standard 110 volt outlet will take 20 odd hours to go from 0-100% charge?

Click to expand...

All of the S model Leafs without the QC option (Charge Package) come with the 3.3kw charger, not just the 2013. (This may change in the 2017 model, if the S has the 30kwh pack.) The good news is that all Leafs, all models, charge at the same 12A rate at 120 volts, unless the EVSE has been upgraded, set to 16 amps, and given a 20 amp circuit. The slower onboard charger only makes a difference when L-2 (208-240 volt) charging is used. Even then, it doesn't make a big difference if you charge just at home, overnight. It only really matters when "opportunity charging" while on trips; then it takes twice as long as the 6.6kw charger-equipped models take.

jaydoc said:

one thing that I thought the 2013 S lacked was quick charging using currently available home charging systems for the Leaf. Is that true? Or does that depend on the options that the original buyer chose to customize it with?

Click to expand...

FYI there is no home "quick charging" option. Such stations cost tens of thousands to buy and install, and then you'll have demand charges from your utility, and that's assuming that your electric feed can handle that kind of current, which it probably can't. For that reason you'll only see them in commercial applications, unless you're someone like Elon Musk and can afford to put such a station in your home (not sure if he does or not).

jaydoc said:

jjeff said:

I have a '13S and am quite happy with it, although if you like certain options like cruise or other options you might like a SV or SL better. A S leaf still has lots of options IMO and things like a heated steering wheel(on the S) is only on other vehicles Platinum models, if they even offer that.

The Leaf is a great little car for zipping around town, a perfect mate for a Prius family. Use the Prius for longer trips(or you need to haul a lot) and the Leaf for everything else.
My wife has a Prius and I have the Leaf but once I'm home from work both of us basically only use the Leaf, again unless we need the Prius for whatever reason.

Click to expand...

There is a 2013 S being offered for $10000 near where I live. I would love to buy it, but one thing that I thought the 2013 S lacked was quick charging using currently available home charging systems for the Leaf. Is that true? Or does that depend on the options that the original buyer chose to customize it with? if so, I might drive the 60 miles to go look at the car. I know the dealer wants to sell it quickly and I might be able to bargain a better price for it.

I am also excited about adding the Leaf as our second car. In a few years, since I most likely won't buy it new, I may sell the Prius and buy the Bolt if its as nice as its advertised to be!

Click to expand...

I have the QC option on my S model Leaf(it was a option I really wanted) which also gives me the "almost twice the speed" L2 charging if your EVSE is a 30 amp model. Now using a EVSEupgrade'd EVSE you top out at 20 amps @ 240v so you won't gain all the benefit of the 6.6Kw charger but for the most part it's the EVSE I use. I do have a larger 30a model I use as a kind of "fast charge" EVSE but it's not to be confused with a QC available only at select places and truthfully I've only used once, at the Nissan dealer.
I still feel the 6.6Kw charger is worth it for as RonDawg said, "opportunity charging" where you want to get almost double the speed charging but the vast majority of my charging is from a 15 or 20a EVSE, not fully utilizing the 6.6Kw charger.
LeftieBiker is correct in his statement about 120v charging using the EVSEupgrade'd EVSE but not using other EVSEs that can charge at a higher rate @ 120v. With the 3.6Kw built in charger you top out at 12a but with my 6.6Kw charger I can charge at up to 27.5a @120v, same amperage as at 240v and very handy if charging say at a RV campground that only has TT-30(camper) outlets that go up to 30a. It's also handy on a good 20a circuit where you can charge at 16a or more. Charging at 20a @120v is the same watts as 10a @240v so amperage does matter. Of course you need the wiring and such to support 20a @120v, especially for extended charging. When I get close to 20a @120v it's generally only for a hour or so, not overnight.
To me the QC option isn't really something I'd pay extra for but the 6.6Kw charger is, unfortunately it's a all or none situation and I'm glad I went for the option.

For me , Level 2 at home is worth the cost , for home charging .

My advice is to buy the newest Leaf you can afford . Then pick the best deal among those .

We bought a 2012 a few weeks ago . Used Leafs are not plentiful in our area .

God bless
Wyr

Thank you for the replies, everyone.

I will post an update when I decide on which Leaf and EVSE to buy.

Update:

1. I am going to test drive a 2013 Nissan Leaf SL with 10,000 miles this weekend. It looks nice and it has the premium package and is listed for $15000 but I hope to get the price down to $13k.

Does this sound like a good deal?

2. Also can you guys say whether this image shows 10 bars or 11 bars? I just want to be sure I know how to read this right when I go to buy.



Thanks

It has 11 capacity bars. Small bars are the capacity bars.

$15k is way too high for this.

It shows 11 bars, and that could be just barely 11, about to fall to ten - no way to know without LeafSpy. Check the build date on the door. The price is way too high for an 11 bar car, even with low miles. I suspect it may be an early build. I suggest you keep looking.

jaydoc said:

I am going to test drive a 2013 Nissan Leaf SL with 10,000 miles this weekend. It looks nice and it has the premium package and is listed for $15000 but I hope to get the price down to $13k. Does this sound like a good deal?

Click to expand...

Definitely too expensive. If you can't get it for less than $9000, then I'd pass. Here is the latest (June) auction data: http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=19362&p=462637#p462637

11 bars is neither here nor there, and $15,000 is about $5,000 too expensive. There are two strategies to buying used LEAFs:

1) Buy a battery that is wasted with the intent to seek a warranty replacement.
2) Buy the battery with the least degradation.

I think your best value is #1 if you can find one.

To clarify, the car I am going to test drive seems to have all 12 bars, The picture I posted was from Carmax for a 2013 leaf SV that has 40k miles on it. I posted it only because that was the best picture I could find in order to learn how to read the battery capacity indicator.

I am continuing to look for better deals, but living in AL does not help much when looking for a Leaf. I hardly find any on the roads - despite the fact that Atlanta, which is just over a 100 miles away is teeming with them, likely due to the generous tax credits GA used to give to Leaf buyers.

Reddy said:

jaydoc said:

I am going to test drive a 2013 Nissan Leaf SL with 10,000 miles this weekend. It looks nice and it has the premium package and is listed for $15000 but I hope to get the price down to $13k. Does this sound like a good deal?

Click to expand...

Definitely too expensive. If you can't get it for less than $9000, then I'd pass. Here is the latest (June) auction data: http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=19362&p=462637#p462637

Click to expand...

Thank you for the auction data. Did not realize such data was openly available.

kubel said:

11 bars is neither here nor there, and $15,000 is about $5,000 too expensive. There are two strategies to buying used LEAFs:

1) Buy a battery that is wasted with the intent to seek a warranty replacement.
2) Buy the battery with the least degradation.

I think your best value is #1 if you can find one.

Click to expand...

So 9 “battery bars” on the dashboard display on a car that has fewer than 60,000 miles on it?

So 9 “battery bars” on the dashboard display on a car that has fewer than 60,000 miles on it?

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Eight bars is best, and yes, they really do come up for sale already eligible for a new pack. A nine bar car should have less than 50k miles on it, and at least 9 months or so left from the In Service date to exactly five years after that. As for the SL with all bars showing, that would be worth negotiating on if you can determine the State of Health (SOH) with LeafSpy. You'd want at least 92% or so for it to be worth paying a premium. If you can't get a reading on the pack, you have to assume that any 12 bar car is nearing the loss of that 12th bar. And remember, no 2013 Leafs built before April of 2013!

LeftieBiker said:

So 9 “battery bars” on the dashboard display on a car that has fewer than 60,000 miles on it?

Click to expand...

Eight bars is best, and yes, they really do come up for sale already eligible for a new pack. A nine bar car should have less than 50k miles on it, and at least 9 months or so left from the In Service date to exactly five years after that. As for the SL with all bars showing, that would be worth negotiating on if you can determine the State of Health (SOH) with LeafSpy. You'd want at least 92% or so for it to be worth paying a premium. If you can't get a reading on the pack, you have to assume that any 12 bar car is nearing the loss of that 12th bar. And remember, no 2013 Leafs built before April of 2013!

Click to expand...

Thanks. Also, I came across http://insideevs.com/used-nissan-leaf-buying-guide/ which provides a good overview of model year changes that prospective used Leaf buyers like myself may find helpful, so I am posting it to this thread.

^Perfect! You have all the info you need now. Don't rush the decision. There will always be another EV coming up for auction, another model being released, etc. Soon there will be a whole slew of 150-200 mi EVs that will make the 50-75 mi EVs much cheaper. Make sure the EV meets YOUR driving needs. Also assume at least 25% mileage degradation in the next 5 years. I've had a 2011 Leaf for almost 5 yrs and I have about 25% less range. I'm not happy about it, but I bought knowing that the "100 mi" Leaf was really only 75 mi and I only needed about 25 mi for daily use. Thankfully, I haven't moved or needed more range (wanting more is different than needing it). There are lots of choices for electrified driving (Volt, Leaf, BMW i3, several Fords, etc.) and they are all great for certain applications.