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PianoAl

Well-known member
Joined
May 16, 2016
Messages
239
An electrician is coming tomorrow to give me a quote for installation of a 220 line in my garage.

I'm thinking I'll get an EVSE that plugs into the wall (rather than being hardwired). Is that a good choice?

Will the ClipperCreek LCS-20P give me enough power to charge my 2016 Model S at the maximum rate?

If so, I guess I tell the electrician I need a NEMA 14-30 plug, with a 20A circuit. Yes?

Also, I saw some posts that talked about and EVSE that let you dial down the amperage. That doesn't make sense to me, can someone explain it?

Thanks, guys!

Al
 
PRODUCT SPECS:
• Service: 208/240V, 30A
• Charge Current: 208V/240V, 16A maximum


So, you need a 30A breaker, not 20A.

Your car is only a 3.3 OBC? No QC/6.6 upgrade? This EVSE is good enough then.
 
30A circuit, AWG10 on 30A breaker. Make sure he installs the outlet with the grounding connector oriented in the position (up/down) best suitable for the EVSE you buy - read the manual beforehand.

Another thought, if you're already going through the trouble of running a new circuit it may make sense to future-proof and run a 50A circuit instead with NEMA 14-50 at the end, the additional cost of materials shouldn't be much and labor should be about the same, that is if your electrical panel has enough capacity. CC LCS-20P with a 14-50 plug is same price as 14-30.
 
Here's my opinion for a future-proof solution, FWIW:

Assuming it isn't a long distance from the panel (ie buying more expensive wire becomes significant), run 6/3+G to a junction box where you want the EVSE, with whatever breaker is appropriate for the chosen EVSE. Unless you plan to use the EVSE in some portable fashion just get the cheaper hardwired version and connect it to the junction box. Rationale is you want to upgrade to a higher power EVSE all you have to do is change the breaker, or if you want to connect a Tesla UMC, just put a 14-50 receptacle on the junction box and change the breaker.
 
I don't get it, why not just 14-50 receptacle and 50A breaker to start and be done with it? This is what CC manual calls for the 20a model with 14-50 plug.
 
PianoAl said:
Also, I saw some posts that talked about and EVSE that let you dial down the amperage. That doesn't make sense to me, can someone explain it?

That is when you buy an EVSE with future proofing in mind but your existing breaker cannot support the amps. In this situation some EVSEs allow you to dial down the amperage and set a max limit. For example if you were buying a 32A system with a 30A breaker in place. Though my advice would be to get a 50A breaker and get a plug in EVSE. That way same outlet can be used when you buy your Tesla and want to use the mobile connector. ;)
 
Valdemar said:
I don't get it, why not just 14-50 receptacle and 50A breaker to start and be done with it? This is what CC manual calls for the 20a model with 14-50 plug.
You must have a different version of the manual from what we had, our said to use a 40A breaker with the HCS-40 (and corresponding breaker sizes for the other models). Maybe the models with the plug have their own overcurrent protection?
 
PianoAl said:
Also, I saw some posts that talked about and EVSE that let you dial down the amperage. That doesn't make sense to me, can someone explain it?

Start with a portable EVSE. At 120 V, might plug into a standard outlet and draw 12A. Ah, but what if there is something else drawing power on the circuit? Then being able to turn the EVSE down to a somewhat lower current might be very useful, as it would allow you to charge at a slower rate, rather than not being able to charge at all.

Suppose you have a generator at home. It might supply 5.5kW total (23A @240V). Perhaps that is not even enough to support the full output of the charger (30A). And other things in your house will draw power. Might be nice to be able to charge the car at a reduced rate if power is out for a long period of time, without turning off the furnace, fridge, freezer and such while the car is charging.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
Valdemar said:
I don't get it, why not just 14-50 receptacle and 50A breaker to start and be done with it? This is what CC manual calls for the 20a model with 14-50 plug.
You must have a different version of the manual from what we had, our said to use a 40A breaker with the HCS-40 (and corresponding breaker sizes for the other models). Maybe the models with the plug have their own overcurrent protection?

I just checked the manual on CC website. A built-in OCPD is possible, an in-line fuse is proven tech and easy enough to add, or remove for that matter. It would be silly for them to require a 30A breaker on a 14-50 receptacle, as it defeats the purpose of an easy installation into an existing outlet.
 
Valdemar said:
I don't get it, why not just 14-50 receptacle and 50A breaker to start and be done with it? This is what CC manual calls for the 20a model with 14-50 plug.

+2
I had a 14-50 plug with a 50A breaker installed. This will not be my last EV so I guess I am "future proofing". The difference in price is a drop in the bucket when compared to the benefits.
 
Clipper Creek names their products via the required breaker size. So an LCS-20 requires a 20 amp circuit on a 20 amp breaker. The LCS-20 provides a charge current of 16A, which is 80% of the breaker size.

Now oddly, none of the LCS-20P models come with a 20 amp plugs. The options are 30 amp plugs or 50 amp plugs (NEMA doesn't do 40 amp plugs).

So if you get an LCS-20P you can install a receptacle to match whatever plug style you've chosen. You can still install that receptacle on a 20 amp circuit. The only NEC rule for receptacles on an individual branch circuit (dedicated circuit) is that the receptacle rating be not less than the breaker rating.

Of course, this could confuse someone in the future, finding a 30 amp or 50 amp receptacle on a 20 amp breaker. So it might be simpler/easier to just get the LCS-20 and hardwire it.

Cheers, Wayne

P.S. I'm not commenting on the future proofing question, just on the LCS-20 breaker size.
 
Jedlacks said:
Valdemar said:
I don't get it, why not just 14-50 receptacle and 50A breaker to start and be done with it? This is what CC manual calls for the 20a model with 14-50 plug.

+2
I had a 14-50 plug with a 50A breaker installed. This will not be my last EV so I guess I am "future proofing". The difference in price is a drop in the bucket when compared to the benefits.

Many older homes have only 100A panels, charging at 40A may trip the main breaker with other big loads like ovens, AC, pool pump running at the same time. So there are reasons for conservative 30A setups.
 
Valdemar said:
I just checked the manual on CC website. A built-in OCPD is possible, an in-line fuse is proven tech and easy enough to add, or remove for that matter. It would be silly for them to require a 30A breaker on a 14-50 receptacle, as it defeats the purpose of an easy installation into an existing outlet.
You're right I went back and looked... the models with plugs specify breaker sizes appropriate to the rating of the plug even if the EVSE rating is lower, while the hardwired ones specify breakers that match the EVSE rating. That's likely one reason they caution against just putting your own pigtail on the hardwired versions.

I may have to rethink my recommendation; having a 14-50 receptacle and a plugin model probably is the most versatile and the additional material cost isn't that much... while it seems like a simple enough task, a customer who isn't comfortable undoing a connection at a junction box would more than make that back by not having to call an electrician to undo it if they move.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
You're right I went back and looked... the models with plugs specify breaker sizes appropriate to the rating of the plug even if the EVSE rating is lower, while the hardwired ones specify breakers that match the EVSE rating.
Yes, but I would say that's silly of Clipper Creek, and not required by the NEC. It is arguably a little less safe to have a 20A device on a 30A or 50A breaker than on a 20A breaker. For a dedicated circuit, I recommend matching the breaker to the load, not the receptacle.

LTLFTcomposite said:
That's likely one reason they caution against just putting your own pigtail on the hardwired versions.
We are obviously only speculating, but I would think the main reason is that the NEC limits the EVSE power cord length to 12" (unless the GFCI functionality is built into the cord itself), while common pigtails are longer than that.

Cheers, Wayne
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
I may have to rethink my recommendation; having a 14-50 receptacle and a plugin model probably is the most versatile and the additional material cost isn't that much...

From personal experience I am so glad I did this when I got my leaf. I got a 50A breaker with a JuiceBox Pro (40A) and yes I knew it was more than what Leaf was using at that time. But fast forward a few months and here comes Tesla using the full 40A from the JuiceBox Pro. I do have the option to connect the (Telsa) Mobile connector but I don't need it as Juicebox is able to supply all that my Model S can consume.
 
Thanks. I have to back up and ask a few more questions.

If I get an EVSE that plugs in, then, if I move, I just unplug it and go. That would seem like a big advantage. Yes?

3. >Your car is only a 3.3 OBC? No QC/6.6 upgrade?

"3.3 OBC" means the on board computer can charge at a maximum of 3.3 Kilowatts? I don't have the quickcharge option, so I guess the answer is yes. 3.3 Kilowatts/220 V = 15 Amps (thinking out loud).

Luckily the breaker box is just on the other side of the garage wall.

Okay, here's my current plan, based on your excellent advice:

I'll have him put in a NEMA 14-50 outlet on a 50 amp breaker. I'll buy the Clipper Creek LCS-20P with a NEMA 14-50 plug. Good to go?

Man, how do normal (non-nerds) deal with this??
 
Your strategy sounds fine. The only other consideration would be if you thought you might have a different LEAF (or other EV with a j1772 connection) at some point that has a higher charging rate. In that case you might wish you had spent a couple hundred dollars more and gotten the HCS40. If you don't foresee being concerned with faster charging at home it doesn't matter and all you care about is charging at night the 3kw is fine.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
Your strategy sounds fine. The only other consideration would be if you thought you might have a different LEAF (or other EV with a j1772 connection) at some point that has a higher charging rate. In that case you might wish you had spent a couple hundred dollars more and gotten the HCS40. If you don't foresee being concerned with faster charging at home it doesn't matter and all you care about is charging at night the 3kw is fine.

Right. I'm hoping that I won't need a new car for at least five years, maybe ten. So I'm going to skip the future proofing for the EVSE.
 
EVSEupgrade is wonderful but it would not be my choice for home charging. 30 amp, 40 amp, 50 amp outlet is fine. You will save a bit with 30 amp but not much.

I recommend Clipper Creek HCS-30 for a 30 amp outlet or hardwire. Will charge at 24 amps.
 
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