New owner, need help charging

Hello everyone. I just bought a 2013 Leaf and need some help picking out a wall charger. My car has the 110v cable in the trunk. I read the manual which refers to this as the trickle charger, and says it should only be used in emergencies when the normal charger is not available. Will I hurt my battery by using this each night?

My car has the 6.6kw charger option, so I need a little help picking out a normal charger. My garage has a 20A and a 30A 240v outlet available. Is there anything available that I could use with my existing outlets? I don't think there is enough room in the 30A conduit to fit wire that could handle 50A, and I'd rather use what I already have than pay for a new circuit.

Congratulations on your purchase. Clipper creek hcs-30 (24A system) would be a good choice.

(Response edited after the coffee kicked in (and I read the response below)).

I installed the hcs- 30 on a 30 amp circuit and it might be more appropriate then the hcs- 40 for your installation on a 30 amp circuit.

http://cleantechnica.com/2015/09/25/clippercreek-unveils-new-level-2-ev-charging-station-hcs-30/

Foschas is right. I missed the 30 A part. Editing my response.

I am a little confused. The LCS30 is rated at 24a continuous, which is 5.8kW. The leaf has a 3.3kW and a 6.6kW onboard charger. My interpretation would be that the LCS30 does not make enough power to activate the 6.6kW onboard charger, and thus would use the 3.3kW charger. Is that correct?

And if so, wouldn't it make sense to get the cheaper LCS20, rated at 3.8kW?

Jeli said:

My car has the 110v cable in the trunk. I read the manual which refers to this as the trickle charger, and says it should only be used in emergencies when the normal charger is not available. Will I hurt my battery by using this each night?

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No, you won't hurt your battery.
You will be much happier with a 240V EVSE (I am, and I only have the 3.3kw Leaf), but the 110v doesn't hurt anything.
Just slower.

The only thing to be aware of with the 110v is that you need to make sure you have a good 110v receptacle and wiring.
Think of it as running a space heater for hours.
A bad 110v receptacle (and they are out there) could heat up and cause problems, even a fire in the extreme.

That said, lots of people only use 110v charging..

BUT, 240v is much nicer. Not just the speed, but more convenient.. ;-)
(On a side note.. Not an electrical guy here.. Is it 110v or 117v or 120v? I think I've seen all variants in text somewhere.. ;-) )

desiv

As others have said, get the HCS 30 from Clipper creek. If you are utilizing the existing 30A outlet, you cannot draw more than 24A continuous and still be in electrical code. This is the most you can legally do and to be honest, it will probably be more than adequate for your needs. Another option is to just get an EVSE upgrade for your existing cable. You also didn't say whether you had an S or an SV/SL. In the case that you have the S, the only thing I'd say you should consider is getting something like a Juicebox or a charge point home charger with WIFI because the S charge timer is horrible and the added convenience of the wifi and phone app would be a big plus. However, I don't think the charge point can be had at 24A but I think you can get a juicebox at 24a

I will also add that I'm not 100% convinced that using 110v long term doesn't hurt the battery. Charging will raise the temp of the battery and high temps will hurt it over time. Charging at 110v takes a very long time and as a result, your pack remains warmer for longer periods of time. If you are doing this every day, you may experience some added degradation as a result. Charging at L2 for only a couple of hours before you drive is better on the battery.

Furthermore charging at 110v will cause you to have to charge at peak electricity cost times since you can't get all of your charging done in the middle of the night when its cheap. If you have the option to do L2 charging and switch to a time of use plan for your electrical company, you can save a decent amount of money, probably enough to pay for your HCS-30 in about a year or two of use.

tkdbrusco said:

In the case that you have the S, the only thing I'd say you should consider is getting something like a Juicebox or a charge point home charger with WIFI because the S charge timer is horrible and the added convenience of the wifi and phone app would be a big plus. However, I don't think the charge point can be had at 24A but I think you can get a juicebox at 24a

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+1. Coming from someone who owns a S, I got the JuiceBox classic and then swapped out for the WiFi version ..... and I'm loving it. The app will allow you to dial down this 40A EVSE to whatever Amperage you want. This way you are also future proofed for the next gen of Electric Car when you buy another one.

I guess I'm just not seeing the benefit of the bigger charger. My power co. does not offer a time of use plan. Once the car is full it stops charging, I don't have to go unplug it, so I don't see the benefits of a wifi timer. And if the hcs30 won't charge any faster than the lcs20 (due to not reaching 6.6kW...is this right?), I might as well get the cheaper one.

I do have an S, not SL/SV.

Jeli said:

I guess I'm just not seeing the benefit of the bigger charger. My power co. does not offer a time of use plan. Once the car is full it stops charging, I don't have to go unplug it, so I don't see the benefits of a wifi timer.

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You are correct. In your case the timer is of no use as you don't a TOU plan. Not sure if you care about the usage and energy consumption reports.

Jeli said:

And if the hcs30 won't charge any faster than the lcs20 (due to not reaching 6.6kW...is this right?), I might as well get the cheaper one.

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I believe it would use the 6.6kW charger but at a lower amp....you'd still be better off going with a HCS-30 or JuiceBox as compared to LCS-20. Not an expert in this area so someone with an electrical background can probably explain better.

Jeli said:

And if the hcs30 won't charge any faster than the lcs20 (due to not reaching 6.6kW...is this right?), I might as well get the cheaper one.

Click to expand...

I think this is off..
I don't have a Clipper Creek, but I think (from the website):
The 30 (at least the LCS30) will charge @ 5.8 kW max.
The 20 (at least the LCS20) will charge @ 3.8 kW max.

That's not quite double, but much faster.

Personally, the only thing I would change on my 2012 (obviously other than more range!!!) is that I max at at 3.3kW.

When I get home and the battery is low, if we need to go back out later, we are taking the Subaru.
I get about 12 miles back per hour charged. (That's a generalization, I haven't timed it.. ;-) )

desiv

inphoenix said:

You are correct. In your case the timer is of no use as you don't a TOU plan. Not sure if you care about the usage and energy consumption reports.

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I do care but I think the buit-in timer will be enough.

Thanks everyone for the advice and showing me the clipper creek line. I'm going to go with the LCS20P for $395. I have at least 6 public chargers near me that I can use if I really need the faster rate on occasion.

If you're breaker and outlet are capable I'd honestly go for the HCS-30 over the 20. You may be fine with the 20 now, but in the future if you wind up getting a 200+ mile range EV, you'll find that the 20 will charge much more slowly for your needs. Figure that the 20 will add about 16mi of range per hour vs. 24mi of range per hour on the 30. When charging a car with 200 mi of range, that will matter.

Jeli said:

The leaf has a 3.3kW and a 6.6kW onboard charger. My interpretation would be that the LCS30 does not make enough power to activate the 6.6kW onboard charger, and thus would use the 3.3kW charger. Is that correct?

Click to expand...

That is not correct. There is only one onboard charger, the 6.6kW one. I think the reason you think there's two is because of the two charging times being displayed.

Your charger can draw UP TO 6.6 kW, but by design won't draw any more than the EVSE you're plugged into is capable of supplying. So if plug into a 20 amp EVSE, the car will only draw up to 4.8 kW (20 amps x 240 volts).

BTW you will find many public L2 charging stations to be outputting considerably less than 6.6 kW (I'm looking at you, Blink) as they are often connected to 208 volt 3 phase circuits, rather than 240 volt.

I'm a big fan of Clipper Creek stations. I highly recommend spending a bit more to upgrade to the LCS-30P. Clipper Creek plug in units are available with different plugs, so make sure you get the right one when you order; send them a picture of the plug you plan on using if you don't know the differences.

desiv said:

Jeli said:

My car has the 110v cable in the trunk. I read the manual which refers to this as the trickle charger, and says it should only be used in emergencies when the normal charger is not available. Will I hurt my battery by using this each night?

Click to expand...

No, you won't hurt your battery.
You will be much happier with a 240V EVSE (I am, and I only have the 3.3kw Leaf), but the 110v doesn't hurt anything.
Just slower.

The only thing to be aware of with the 110v is that you need to make sure you have a good 110v receptacle and wiring.
Think of it as running a space heater for hours.
A bad 110v receptacle (and they are out there) could heat up and cause problems, even a fire in the extreme.

That said, lots of people only use 110v charging..

BUT, 240v is much nicer. Not just the speed, but more convenient.. ;-)
(On a side note.. Not an electrical guy here.. Is it 110v or 117v or 120v? I think I've seen all variants in text somewhere.. ;-) )

desiv

Click to expand...

In N. America our power is 120v, I believe at one point it may have been 110v and you may still see things stating 110v but 120v is basically the same. Not sure about 117v but again it's basically 120v. I believe Japan's power is 100v or may have been but many modern power supplies say some something like 100v-240v AC, which covers not only our 120v but also our 208v(3 phase 240v) and also our 240v. You may also hear of 240v being called 220v, which again is based on the old 110v standard.

To the OP, like most here I'd suggest if you had a 30a circuit you went with a 24a EVSE. While it's true if you always plug in your Leaf over night more than likely the 20a model will be just fine, it's when your battery is low and you want to quickly charge it that you'll appreciate the extra amps. If your OK with just 20a then I'd seriously think of having EVSEupgrade upgrade your stock ESVE, it would be basically your cheapest option to get 20a and it's a good quality conversion. You can carry it around and have the option to charge at 240v on the go, or with the same EVSE charge at 120v on the go.

jjeff said:

In N. America our power is 120v, I believe at one point it may have been 110v and you may still see things stating 110v but 120v is basically the same. Not sure about 117v but again it's basically 120v.

I believe Japan's power is 100v or may have been but many modern power supplies say some something like 100v-240v AC, which covers not only our 120v but also our 208v(3 phase 240v) and also our 240v. You may also hear of 240v being called 220v, which again is based on the old 110v standard.

Click to expand...

Those are "nominal" voltage figures, and the actual voltage coming out of the socket will vary.

Japan household current is nominally 100 volts, but 1/2 of Japan is 60 Hz (like us) and the other half is 50 Hz like most of the world. Normally not a problem unless the device you plug in relies on the timing of the alternating current to work properly (like many electric clocks without a battery backup). http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2225.html

RonDawg said:

Japan household current is nominally 100 volts, but 1/2 of Japan is 60 Hz (like us) and the other half is 50 Hz like most of the world. Normally not a problem unless the device you plug in relies on the timing of the alternating current to work properly (like many electric clocks without a battery backup). http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2225.html

Click to expand...

Or running a device with a 60Hz transformer on 50Hz which will be a bit more serious than clock skew.

Jeli said:

I am a little confused. The LCS30 is rated at 24a continuous, which is 5.8kW. The leaf has a 3.3kW and a 6.6kW onboard charger. My interpretation would be that the LCS30 does not make enough power to activate the 6.6kW onboard charger, and thus would use the 3.3kW charger. Is that correct?

And if so, wouldn't it make sense to get the cheaper LCS20, rated at 3.8kW?

Click to expand...

NO. Your 6.6 charger will use the max offered by the EVSE. It is a variable input charger from 720W to 6.6 kW.
In this case it will use 24 amps and that is maximum allowed by National Electric code for a 30 amp circuit.

HCS-30 will work great.

OP, if you could please get your terminology straight re: the on-board charger vs. EVSE.

See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=14728&p=332668#p332668 and http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=262630#p262630.