Winter Commute

Hello all,
I am thinking about buying a used leaf to try out being an EV owner. I have had a Prius since the Gen 2 was released in the US and have been itching to go full EV! I have rooftop solar that often produces more electricity than I need and would love to put it to good use and figured why not an EV. My commute is 23 miles one way (46 round trip). On my days off I usually drive no more than 10-15 miles. I live in Rhode Island and our winters temps are usually in the low 20’s but can get as low a zero on occasion.
The one thing that has been keeping me from taking the plunge is my commute and winter range anxiety. I would obviously install a L2 changer at home but at work there is nowhere for me to charge. I have no fear of successfully completing my commute in the spring, summer, or fall but have read quite a bit about reduced range on the Leaf in the winter.
Do you guys think a Leaf is right for me? Is this winter range anxiety I’m having all for nothing? Any advice is welcome!
Eric

Welcome to the forum ! You find lots of info here but to get you started ...

RI winters can be as bad as our Midwest ones so comparisons can be made -- this is our 4th winter with our LEAF and the majority of most winter days don't typically pose a problem; it's NOT a high-riding AWD SUV so you'll need to watch how much snow is on the roads and if we expect day time highs near zero it will typically stay in my garage.

My R/T M-F work commute is 30 miles; mixed suburban (no high speed roads; typically a max of 55 for a few short stretches) so our LEAF handles it pretty well --- I will mention though, that on one trip recently, it was sleeting pretty heavy so needed to run heat/defrost a lot and even with 100% charge (we're down 1 capacity bar so not really 100%) I had only about 12 miles of indicated range pulling back in the garage coming home.

So, in winter you should have a plan B if at all possible (mine is another car; AWD ICE SUV); moderate your speeds (if you can); use the defrost/heat intermittently (heated seats and steering wheels make this bearable) and you might be fine on your work commutes.

Be sure to check out the Chicagoland forums as some have 'swapped' their LEAF's with the Chevy Volt because of their high speed work commutes in winter; I'm sure you could probably make the LEAF work, but be sure to share more info on your commute (highs, high speed or not, etc.) and you'll get more feedback.

My commute is mainly on the freeway. I have about four miles of city driving during the commute. My current car tells me my average speed during my commute is 45mph. The area I live in is mainly flat so i only have small hills to contend with except for one large bridge that goes over a large river.

There are two L2 chargers on the way home that I could pull off the freeway and use if I was in a pinch and closer to my house there are countless L2 chargers available. I was planning on trading in my car. We do have another car but it is mostly in use when I am working.
Thanks for the advice!
Eric

Wether or not a used Leaf will work for you depends totally on the condition of its traction battery. I've seen a lot of used ones brought here from the hot SW and some were pretty degraded. You need LeafSpy and an OBD II to really assess a car, and you'll want it for winter driving as well. Have you considered a 2015? There's still some around and you can get a good deal on them.

DNAinaGoodWay said:

You need LeafSpy and an OBD II to really assess a car, and you'll want it for winter driving as well. Have you considered a 2015? There's still some around and you can get a good deal on them.

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Both things are great advise from a very experienced owner. I think a used 2013 with a good battery would do in your situation without charging on the way home for awhile (a couple of years or more maybe) if you 1) Preheat at home before you leave and leave the thermostat turned down on those really cold days to like 60 or 62 degrees which keeps the heater usage to around 1500 watts. That should get you 50 to 60 miles on a charge on those really cold days. Warmer (especially sunny) days will be easy. If it works in your tax situation a new 2015 could be a good deal with the rebate or consider leasing a new one if you can. With the falling market, however, a used 2013 would be hard to beat. Just learn on this site about LeafSpy Pro and how to check the battery health of a used LEAF before you buy it.

Lots of us moved from a Prius to the LEAF and are very happy. But as the dealer said to me... The LEAF is a great car, if you have another car. -- or are willing to rent a car when you need more than the LEAF can do.

I would advise against this. I had a 23 mile each way commute while I was still working (I'm retired now) in Upstate NY, and my new 2013 Leaf was just able to make it in the coldest weather, with the heat lowered a bit and me wearing a heated fleece blanket.. My route had only a short section of freeway driving, with most of it at 35-45MPH. IIRC my average speed was 32. You'd probably be fine 90% of the time, but in really cold weather you would either just make it or fall short, especially in a car with capacity loss. A new 2015, as suggested, would probably work for a couple of years, but then it too would possibly lose enough range for it to become an issue. If you really want a Leaf, I suggest you consider buying (not leasing - too expensive) a 2016 SV or SL, with its longer range.

ebuonaccor said:

Hello all,
I am thinking about buying a used leaf to try out being an EV owner. I have had a Prius since the Gen 2 was released in the US and have been itching to go full EV! I have rooftop solar that often produces more electricity than I need and would love to put it to good use and figured why not an EV. My commute is 23 miles one way (46 round trip). On my days off I usually drive no more than 10-15 miles. I live in Rhode Island and our winters temps are usually in the low 20’s but can get as low a zero on occasion.
The one thing that has been keeping me from taking the plunge is my commute and winter range anxiety. I would obviously install a L2 changer at home but at work there is nowhere for me to charge. I have no fear of successfully completing my commute in the spring, summer, or fall but have read quite a bit about reduced range on the Leaf in the winter.
Do you guys think a Leaf is right for me? Is this winter range anxiety I’m having all for nothing? Any advice is welcome!
Eric

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Welcome Eric! I recently sold my 2005 Gen 2 Prius for a '13 Leaf. First let me say that thankfully, there isn't a huge adjustment switching from Prius to Leaf (IMHO). The same concepts you have, no doubt, adapted to in order to get the best performance out of your Prius will work in a Leaf.

My commute takes me around town about 30-40 miles each day, but almost none of that is highway. My average speed is 21mph. And winter in Raleigh means maybe it will snow once or twice this year. Cold is 25°. They have delayed schools opening for the temperature dropping into the 'teens. The weather this week has been 20s in the morning. So far I haven't seen a shocking drop in range.

I also charge at my workplace, which offers free L2 chargers daily. That said, I could just as easily charge at home. And on most days, I could almost delay charging to every other day. Not when it's colder in the morning.


If you have any specific questions about moving from Prius Gen. 2 to Leaf, let me know.

I live in Pittsburgh and have a 60-mile round-trip commute. I bought my Leaf in the spring of 2012.

Right after taking delivery in May 2012, I reported no problems making the drive. I did however note that I needed to charge to 100% instead of 80% on very cold days.

Two and a half years later in Nov 2014, I reported that I could barely make it on below-freezing days. This was after adding a switch to make sure the heater didn't turn on, keeping my speed down to 55 mph on the highway, charging to 100%, and running down past the Very Low Battery Warning.

Now I am no longer able to make the round trip when the temperature is below freezing. Luckily, I have L2 charging available at work. I just use the trickle charger at home for a couple hours to give me enough juice to make it back to work. Since I can charge at both ends of my commute, I'll be fine with additional degradation. But keep in mind how much the battery degrades.

LeftieBiker said:

I would advise against this. I had a 23 mile each way commute while I was still working (I'm retired now) in Upstate NY, and my new 2013 Leaf was just able to make it in the coldest weather, with the heat lowered a bit and me wearing a heated fleece blanket.. My route had only a short section of freeway driving, with most of it at 35-45MPH. IIRC my average speed was 32. You'd probably be fine 90% of the time, but in really cold weather you would either just make it or fall short, especially in a car with capacity loss...

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I can't agree more. Range becomes very unpredictable at temps below freezing. My commute is 37 miles each way, which is marginally doable in warm weather if careful with speeds, route selection, and willingness to not use heat-A/C. This is not doable in the cold. My own tolerance to drive without heat went away with the air-cooled VW in the 1980's.

For the OP a Volt (new or used) is the way to go for zero anxiety, (mostly) electric driving. As several owners have said, a used LEAF will be problematic in the conditions stated, and even a new one could be an issue on the worst days. If you wanted a LEAF, I'd only recommend a new 2016 SV/SL with the 30kWh battery for this commute, but realistically I think a PHEV like the Volt is the way to go for now. Either that, or wait 11 months or so for the 200 mile affordable BEVs like the Chevy Bolt to show up.

GRA said:

For the OP a Volt (new or used) is the way to go for zero anxiety, (mostly) electric driving. As several owners have said, a used LEAF will be problematic in the conditions stated, and even a new one could be an issue on the worst days. If you wanted a LEAF, I'd only recommend a new 2016 SV/SL with the 30kWh battery for this commute, but realistically I think a PHEV like the Volt is the way to go for now. Either that, or wait 11 months or so for the 200 mile affordable BEVs like the Chevy Bolt to show up.

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Volt would be a good way to get halfway there until the longer range BEVs are affordable.

This is borderline but I'm going to lean toward NO, at least on a used leaf. I think the only used leaf that would do it would be a 2015 SV or SL and even at that, you may be pushing it on the coldest days while using the heater. The battery efficiency will be much lower in the cold. It won't regen or be able to draw power as efficiently. If you run the heater you will also seriously impact range. Figure that for a normal range of 85 miles, you'll take a 10-15% hit in cold weather, run the heater and take another 10% hit (if its an SV or SL with hybrid heater, more if an S). So you'll get 55-60 miles on a new car with no degradation. With a used car the battery will have degraded a bit. If you got a 2015 with a Lizard pack and hybrid heater you may be ok for a couple years, but eventually you'll be in a pickle.

You don't have a state rebate in RI so you'll only get $7500 off a new one. A 2016 SV or SL would do it no problem, and a new Volt would work well too, maybe not do your whole round trip commute in the winter on full electric, but may get pretty close. You can also just hold tight and get a Chevy Bolt next year as well.

When you're ready to buy an EV check out my site below.

Thanks

Jefe said:

GRA said:

For the OP a Volt (new or used) is the way to go for zero anxiety, (mostly) electric driving. As several owners have said, a used LEAF will be problematic in the conditions stated, and even a new one could be an issue on the worst days. If you wanted a LEAF, I'd only recommend a new 2016 SV/SL with the 30kWh battery for this commute, but realistically I think a PHEV like the Volt is the way to go for now. Either that, or wait 11 months or so for the 200 mile affordable BEVs like the Chevy Bolt to show up.

Click to expand...

Volt would be a good way to get halfway there until the longer range BEVs are affordable.

Click to expand...

A Gen 2 Volt could probably do the round trip on the battery, except in winter, if above the engine start temp (35 deg. unless you alter the setting, then 15 deg., assuming that the Gen 2 Volt didn't alter the set points from Gen 1 - see https://www.chevrolet.com/content/dam/Chevrolet/northamerica/usa/nscwebsite/en/Home/Ownership/Manuals_and_Videos/02_pdf/2013%20Volt_ColdWeatherTips_Nov%2012.pdf

Gen, 1, one-way in winter if above the engine start temp, maybe 2/3rds - 3/4s of the round trip the rest of the year.

Some good tips on Volt cold weather ops: http://gm-volt.com/2016/01/14/cold-weather-pre-heating-engine-assisted-heating-procedures/

Thanks for all the advice!! You guys stopped me from making an expensive mistake, or a cold night stuck on the side of the road! I'm checking out the Soul EV because it'd gets slightly more range, but will most likely wait for the Bolt and its supposed 200 mile range.

GRA said:

Jefe said:

GRA said:

For the OP a Volt (new or used) is the way to go for zero anxiety, (mostly) electric driving. As several owners have said, a used LEAF will be problematic in the conditions stated, and even a new one could be an issue on the worst days. If you wanted a LEAF, I'd only recommend a new 2016 SV/SL with the 30kWh battery for this commute, but realistically I think a PHEV like the Volt is the way to go for now. Either that, or wait 11 months or so for the 200 mile affordable BEVs like the Chevy Bolt to show up.

Click to expand...

Volt would be a good way to get halfway there until the longer range BEVs are affordable.

Click to expand...

A Gen 2 Volt could probably do the round trip on the battery, except in winter, if above the engine start temp (35 deg. unless you alter the setting, then 15 deg., assuming that the Gen 2 Volt didn't alter the set points from Gen 1 - see https://www.chevrolet.com/content/dam/Chevrolet/northamerica/usa/nscwebsite/en/Home/Ownership/Manuals_and_Videos/02_pdf/2013%20Volt_ColdWeatherTips_Nov%2012.pdf

Gen, 1, one-way in winter if above the engine start temp, maybe 2/3rds - 3/4s of the round trip the rest of the year.

Some good tips on Volt cold weather ops: http://gm-volt.com/2016/01/14/cold-weather-pre-heating-engine-assisted-heating-procedures/

Click to expand...

Is that based on Chevy specs, or Volt real world? I'm skeptical.

ebuonaccor said:

Thanks for all the advice!! You guys stopped me from making an expensive mistake, or a cold night stuck on the side of the road! I'm checking out the Soul EV because it'd gets slightly more range, but will most likely wait for the Bolt and its supposed 200 mile range.

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I'd probably pass on the Kia Soul and I'm also not sure that its available in RI either. My advice to you would be to hold tight for a Bolt but also keep your eyes on 2016 Leaf prices. I have a feeling that later on this year when the Bolt gets closer to market, you'll see Nissan dealers start to heavily discount the 2016 SV or SL models (which will do your commute no problem). The Bolt will be a great car, but if you can get a 2016 at a fire sale price, it may be a great car for you.

Just remember that only the 2016 SV and SL have the higher capacity pack. The S still uses the smaller one found in the 2015 leafs.

tkdbrusco said:

ebuonaccor said:

Thanks for all the advice!! You guys stopped me from making an expensive mistake, or a cold night stuck on the side of the road! I'm checking out the Soul EV because it'd gets slightly more range, but will most likely wait for the Bolt and its supposed 200 mile range.

Click to expand...

I'd probably pass on the Kia Soul and I'm also not sure that its available in RI either. My advice to you would be to hold tight for a Bolt but also keep your eyes on 2016 Leaf prices. I have a feeling that later on this year when the Bolt gets closer to market, you'll see Nissan dealers start to heavily discount the 2016 SV or SL models (which will do your commute no problem). The Bolt will be a great car, but if you can get a 2016 at a fire sale price, it may be a great car for you.

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Just wondering what's your reasoning for passing on the sou'? You guys have been very helpful, I don't want to pass up the free advice!!!

Is there a Kia dealer in or near RI that stocks the Soul EV? I'd of considered one myself but couldn't find one. Think they only sell them on the west coast and Maryland. You might be able to get one shipped here, but it's risky if no dealers have a trained EV tech if something goes wrong with it.

If you can wait until this time next year, you may have one or more 200 mile range cars to choose from, or a really good deal on a leftover 100 mile car.

If you did a 2 year lease on a 2015 Leaf, that might be a good deal, then trade up before the 17/18 winter. A SL or SV would get you by until then, and there's more EVSE showing up on Plugshare everyday.

There are dealerships about 70 miles away in CT that carry the Soul EV.