Leaf will not charge but if I wait for 60 min it will charge?

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R

Reed

Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2015
Messages
5
We have a 2015 leaf and when we drive it about 50 km to our cottage it will not charge with the 120v leaf charger. When we plug it in it cycles on and off and the green charge light and the orange light flash off and on and the vehicle will not charge.
If we wait for an hour and try it again it will charge normally. We have tried waiting thirty minutes but it will not charge and we end up waiting for about a full hour.
We have done this reliablely for the last ten times we have tried it. It has also done the same thing at a completely different location.
Nissan replaced the charger but it still happens. It happens when the car is about 50% or less charged.

The plug is grounded and has a good 120 v supply.

Since the same problem has happened in two different houses and it will charge if we wait for an hour I am thinking that the problem is with the car and not the power supply.
Has anyone seen such a problem?

Reed
 
I don't remember anybody reporting this. Weird. Since you've tested it with multiple locations and cords, I would have to say it's the charger in the car. Do you see a similar behavior on L2 240 V stations?
 
You must have a problem with the grounding of the outlet. You should get a outlet tester at Home Depot and see if you have an open ground or some other error.
 
The car charges perfectly with the 240v charger? I am slightly suspicious of the 120 v outlet at our cottage but since it happened at another location and it works after an hour of waiting it must be the charger in the car?

Reed
 
Reed said:
The car charges perfectly with the 240v charger? I am slightly suspicious of the 120 v outlet at our cottage but since it happened at another location and it works after an hour of waiting it must be the charger in the car?

Reed
Click to expand...
Since the only difference is the power feed, I would suspect the L1 first. When you mentioned charger in your earlier message, you were referring to the brick that you plug into the outlet and then the car or were you referring to the actual charger built into the car?
 
Yes the car charges perfectly with the external 240vac power supply but when we use the 120vac Nissan brick power supply it only works after we wait for an hour. What is the L1 you are talking about?

Reed
 
Reed said:
What is the L1 you are talking about?
Click to expand...
Its just a short cut way of saying the charging station (technically called an Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment or EVSE for short) delivers 120 volts AC to the car's built in charger (a device like your Nissan "brick") and they say L2 to refer to an EVSE that delivers 240 volts to the cars built in charger and L3 to refer to a device that delivers high voltage DC directly to the battery to charge it.
 
Are you using the same "brick" in both locations?

What are the temperatures in your area? An hour delay sounds like something is cooling down or warming up over that time and perhaps that improves a poor contact somewhere. Are your garages warmer or cooler than the outside?

Check the j1772 plug on your brick closely for dirty connections, debris, or a loose rubber gasket that could interfere with making a good connection.
 
powersurge said:
You must have a problem with the grounding of the outlet. You should get a outlet tester at Home Depot and see if you have an open ground or some other error.
Click to expand...

I tested the ground and it turns out that there is no ground at all. It is an old garage (built in 1955) and there was no ground installed.
So maybe this is the reason it will not charge but why does it charge after one hour of resting?
Does anyone think if I drive a ground rod into the ground and connect it to the ground that this will solve the problem?

Reed
 
Reed said:
powersurge said:
You must have a problem with the grounding of the outlet. You should get a outlet tester at Home Depot and see if you have an open ground or some other error.
Click to expand...

I tested the ground and it turns out that there is no ground at all. It is an old garage (built in 1955) and there was no ground installed.
So maybe this is the reason it will not charge but why does it charge after one hour of resting?
Does anyone think if I drive a ground rod into the ground and connect it to the ground that this will solve the problem?

Reed
Click to expand...
Nope, that isn't how to do a proper ground anyway. Ground is basically the neutral and ground wires bonded at the load center. The load center needs to be properly grounded first, then the proper ground wire run to the outlets. Setting a ground wire that is separate from the rest of the house circuit is dangerous in your situation.
 
^^^ +10
If the cottage is an old ungrounded system, addition of ground should be done as knightmb stated.

Reed said:
I tested the ground and it turns out that there is no ground at all. It is an old garage (built in 1955) and there was no ground installed.
So maybe this is the reason it will not charge but why does it charge after one hour of resting?
...
Click to expand...
Baffled why the 120V L1 EVSE would initially not work due to bad ground or ground fault and then start working after one hour.
Would be strange for ground fault to disappear after one hour.
More likely the 120V L1 EVSE is defective.

But could be problems with the LEAF charger.

There is an old thread about a LEAF charger defect that caused very strange problems on some L2 that were on 240V but not others that were on three phase 208V.

CORRECTION: Erroneous statement on L2 ground checking removed.
 
Most EVSEs check for proper ground. 120-volt (L1) units pass a current smaller than the trip threshold for GFCIs (typically 5 mA) to ground. L2 units that are designed for use on circuits rated higher than 20 amperes may pass higher currents to ground for testing the ground path because those circuits are typically not protected by GFCI devices. Portable L2 units designed for 15- or 20-ampere circuits should be designed to test the ground path without exceeding the 5 mA trip threshold of GFCI breakers, but some will cause GFCIs to trip. The onboard charger in the car does not check for ground connections and will charge if available voltage is within tolerance.

It is hard to understand why the OP's car will charge after an hour since he says the receptacle at the cabin is missing a ground. Is it possible that another device in the cabin gets turned on and provides a ground path that satisfies the EVSE?

Gerry
 
GerryAZ said:
...
It is hard to understand why the OP's car will charge after an hour since he says the receptacle at the cabin is missing a ground. Is it possible that another device in the cabin gets turned on and provides a ground path that satisfies the EVSE?

Gerry
Click to expand...
Maybe.
Or maybe the receptacle has a ground present but it only becomes functional when something else in the cottage is turned on.

OP needs to clarify what is meant by ground is not present.
Is there no ground wire in the receptacle box?

Is the receptacle the old two hole or is it three hole with ground?

If three hole that someone stupidly connected the ground to the neutral wire, depending on other items in service on the circuits, the neutral might sometimes look like an OK ground and other times not.

The OP needs to get this corrected properly by someone with the knowledge and training to do it right.
With old 50s vintage wiring and improper grounds there is a huge risk of a cottage fire.
Previous information I have posted about the risk:
TimLee said:
Here is the important information again:
TimLee said:
A repeat of my input from previous questions on 120 V EVSE use:
Note that Nissan recommends the 120V EVSE for limited emergency use only.
Some people have used it for a long time without problems yet, but in general that is a bad idea unless you have a newly properly installed dedicated circuit with high grade receptacle using properly tightened screw connections.

Previous info from another thread:
How safe 120V charging is depends on how lucky you are.
Very few garages have the correct properly installed high quality single outlet supplied by a single breaker.
Code only allows using 80% of the circuit rating for a long term continuous load.
So on a 15 amp circuit nothing else should be on the same circuit while the car is charging.
And a lot of 120V gets put in poorly using push in connections.
One person had a bad fire most likely from staples that had damaged the cable in the wall.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=15784&hilit=+fire#p352567
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Reed said:
The car charges perfectly with the 240v charger? I am slightly suspicious of the 120 v outlet at our cottage but since it happened at another location and it works after an hour of waiting it must be the charger in the car?

Reed
Click to expand...

maybe you need to look at the other common denominator; the EVSE?
 
Don't the newer EVSEs have temperature probes at the plug? Could it start charging because it has cooled down? Is the EVSE being stored in a hot place? Was there something previously plugged in where the EVSE is getting plugged in that could have made it hot?
 
kubel said:
Don't the newer EVSEs have temperature probes at the plug? Could it start charging because it has cooled down? Is the EVSE being stored in a hot place? Was there something previously plugged in where the EVSE is getting plugged in that could have made it hot?
Click to expand...
That is good point, the new ones do. I don't know what temperature sets off the safety, but I could always plug mine in and use a heat gun on low to simulate some rapid heating to see what temperature it shuts off at. :D
 
Hi
The receptacle in my old garage had nothing attached to the ground terminal at all.
I bought some proper ground braid and buried a ground plate 30 inches underground six feet in front of the garage and connected this ground to the outlet.
Now the car charges properly every time.

After some research I found that a separate ground for a detached building is recommended. This ground is not connected to the neutral.

Thanks to all who replied to this problem.
The mystery is still why it works after a while. I suspect that the 120v Nissan power supply brick must always test the circuit within an hour of plugging the car in.

Reed
 
This happened to me when I bought my car. I had an old (1950s.. not that old..) garage and the wiring was messed up by the previous owner. I had an electrician redo my entire unattached garage for 20 amp 120v service on all outlets, and a 40 amp 240 v service for my Level 2 charger. It was the best investment. Everyone who gets an electric car will find any deficiencies in their garage wiring. Typically the garage doesn't use much electricity, maybe a saw or a drill or light. The Nissan 120v charger uses a lot of amps with a constant drain for 12-15 hours if you use it a lot. I am glad that it doesn't work if there is no ground...
 
Reed said:
... After some research I found that a separate ground for a detached building is recommended. This ground is not connected to the neutral.
...
Click to expand...
Glad it is working.

Proper grounding is a relatively complex issue.
In large industrial / utility installations it involves testing to determine the number and spacing of grounds.

I am not an expert on the National Electrical Code.
But what I have read on the subject tends to want all residential grounds to be a single ground connected to the ground buss at the service entrance panel.

If a building is located a long distance from the main building, it is possible there might be need for a separate ground, but the grounds are always supposed to be connected by appropriately sized ground conductors.

I do not think a separate individual floating ground for a separate building is a very technically appropriate solution.
Just because it works does not make it technically correct.
 
TimLee said:
Reed said:
... After some research I found that a separate ground for a detached building is recommended. This ground is not connected to the neutral.
...
Click to expand...
Glad it is working.

Proper grounding is a relatively complex issue.
In large industrial / utility installations it involves testing to determine the number and spacing of grounds.

I am not an expert on the National Electrical Code.
But what I have read on the subject tends to want all residential grounds to be a single ground connected to the ground buss at the service entrance panel.

If a building is located a long distance from the main building, it is possible there might be need for a separate ground, but the grounds are always supposed to be connected by appropriately sized ground conductors.

I do not think a separate individual floating ground for a separate building is a very technically appropriate solution.
Just because it works does not make it technically correct.
Click to expand...
Grounding at a separate building must be accomplished by installing an independent bonding conductor tied at the main feed panel to the enclosure's bonding lugs. By installing a second ground plate , you are creating a path for current through the dirt between the two plates in the event of a fault( also known as "step voltage". I have measured this in the field; once when a customer complained of getting a shock in their shower I actually measured 80vac between the water coming out of the spout and the metallic drain line. After proper bonding of all the metallic lines and properly bonding their garage (and repairing the fault) all was OK. Animals ( livestock) are particularly susceptible to this. As of 2015 electrical code in Canada we no longer have the option of ground plates at separate buildings that house livestock.
 

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