Turned around at 20 miles to go get my ICE vehicle!

Had my leaf for about a month now. Close to when I first got it, I decided to try a 40 mile trip (fully charged). After going only about 20 miles, I decided I couldn't take the chance. The range had dropped about 40 miles in that 20 miles. I live in Colorado Springs, and the trip was stopped at Monument. Admittedly, this is probably entirely an uphill drive (about 900 ft elevation increase). It was also the first time I took it on the freeway for any real amount of time. The return trip showed a drop of about 5 miles in range, so obviously the uphill/downhill made a big difference. But I have to admit to being shocked. I'm afraid I can't even make it 40 miles from Colorado Springs to Castle Rock (much less the extra 15 or so miles to south Denver; only a total of 52-55 miles). And Castle Rock has only one or two level 2 stations (and no fast charge stations).

Anyone else have similar experience? What are the best driving practices on the freeway. I had it in economy the entire time. I still haven't figured out when to use "B" drive instead of "D". Any tips appreciated.

Also, I didn't have any heat or air on. Nor the heated seats.

2015 Base model Nissan Leaf S

i stay off highways and take the scenic route

A 2015? You should be able to get 80 miles this time of year, even in Colorado. I'll let the Coloradans here comment on the specifics of your topography. Never driven there. B mode will give you more regen going downhill and act as a brake too. Eco restricts power usage. Good highway speed is 55-65. Recommend you get LeafSpy and an OBD II and learn how much power you have left when you get to VLBW. Is this a very new car to you? It's natural to panic somewhat at the beginning.

An 80 mile round trip should be do-able, but even with a new 24 kWh battery, you're cutting it close. The only way to safely do it without charging away from home is to slow down.

You might want to experiment with EV Trip Planner to check driving scenarios for feasibility.

Also, as DNAinaGoodWay mentioned, the LeafSpy app for iPhone or Android will give you a precise read on available, remaining energy in the battery pack and a plethora of other stats. In addition to the app, you need to spend ~$20 on an off-the-shelf adaptor to connect to the car's OBD II port.

Does slowing down make a huge difference? How slow/fast is recommended to keep the range up? Considering everyone is doing 75 on the freeway between between Co Springs and Castle Rock (or Denver), not sure how I'd be able to slow down to even 55 without getting a lot of people pissed off.

I've heard of the Leafspy and ODB II. I just haven't done it yet. Probably soon.

Google says an empty LEAF weighs about 3300 pounds, and assuming you weigh 200 pounds, your 900' elevation gain requires about 3.15E6 foot-pounds of energy, or (trusting a Googled conversion factor) 4.27E6 Joules. 1KWH == 3.6MJ, so about 1.2KWH under the usual "ideal case" assumptions. If the battery and drive electronics are 80% efficient, call it 1.5KWH from the battery to make the climb. But if I understand this correctly, you were trying to make an 80 mile roundtrip on top of having that sort of elevation gain. I'm pretty timid about trying to carry a fairly hefty 20 mile reserve, and wouldn't have been comfortable with 80 miles on the flat, even when my LEAF's battery was new. Was there no opportunity for recharging at your destination?

martyh1 said:

The range had dropped about 40 miles in that 20 miles.

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That's not the "range", that sounds like the Guess-O-Meter...

Once you get familiar with your car and it's actual range for the condition/road you are on, that won't be much of a concern.

desiv

martyh1 said:

Does slowing down make a huge difference? How slow/fast is recommended to keep the range up? Considering everyone is doing 75 on the freeway between between Co Springs and Castle Rock (or Denver), not sure how I'd be able to slow down to even 55 without getting a lot of people pissed off.

I've heard of the Leafspy and ODB II. I just haven't done it yet. Probably soon.

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Yes, speed makes a huge difference. Don't exceed 60mph if range is a concern.

Levenkay said:

Google says an empty LEAF weighs about 3300 pounds, and assuming you weigh 200 pounds, your 900' elevation gain requires about 3.15E6 foot-pounds of energy, or (trusting a Googled conversion factor) 4.27E6 Joules. 1KWH == 3.6MJ, so about 1.2KWH under the usual "ideal case" assumptions. If the battery and drive electronics are 80% efficient, call it 1.5KWH from the battery to make the climb. But if I understand this correctly, you were trying to make an 80 mile roundtrip on top of having that sort of elevation gain. I'm pretty timid about trying to carry a fairly hefty 20 mile reserve, and wouldn't have been comfortable with 80 miles on the flat, even when my LEAF's battery was new. Was there no opportunity for recharging at your destination?

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I was expecting to charge at my destination using either 110v or a level 2 if it was working (walgreens; 1 station) and had over night to do at least the 110v (girlfriend's house). But I was worried about even making it one way with how fast the range was going down. After about 10 miles, it seemed to drop about 30 miles in range.

One thing to note is that from Monument (the near midpoint) to Castle Rock the elevation again drops from 6,961 to 6,184 (almost the same as the starting point, Colorado Springs). Range anxiety probably got the best of me. I might try again this weekend.

And to the other poster. Yes, it's the guessometer. Don't have much else to go on right now. Like I said, I'll probably get the leafspy and ODB II.

I find that B mode has too much braking effect to go down even fairly steep hills without the car slowing. Eco mode doesn't just restrict the climate control power, it also increases Regen somewhat, to an amount that I find perfect for descending moderately steep hills with my foot off the accelerator pedal. And yes, you want to go 60MPH max on level highway, 65 on downhills, and 45-55 on climbs.

Don't pay attention to the GOM (guess-o-meter) or "miles remaining" gauge!

Just look at how many battery bars there are - eventually you'll figure out how much driving you can count on from each. Better yet, get LeafSpy and see how much energy's actually in your pack, then you can plan accordingly. You could've made that trip easily - you've just got to get used to how the car operates.

martyh1 said:

Range anxiety probably got the best of me. I might try again this weekend..... Yes, it's the guessometer.

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First, welcome to the forum and your first experience with range anxiety. Spend some time reading old threads and you will find plenty of great info.

Now, remember and repeat after me: Speed Kills (Range)! Physics cannot be violated in an EV any more than with an ICE. You've just been conditioned that in-town driving is less efficient than highway driving. This is completely wrong. The gas powered ICE waste MORE energy in town due to the time spent at stoplights idling and the energy wasted to stop the vehicle. Conversely, the EV gets great in town range due to being more efficient and recuperating some of that energy with braking. This is the reason that the Prius gets better gas mileage in town vs highway. Again, simple physics. So, just slow down if you get nervous with range. 75 mph kills range, probably close to 50% of 55 mph (the real reason the mandated 55 mph speed limit during the gas crisis). Most people just piss away gas money to drive 75-85 mph and don't realize it. The best efficiency is probably between 15-25 mph (not that you should drive that slow except in parking lots). I believe the record distance is around 180 mi at about 15 mph (in AZ with no A/C so less friction).

Have you driven your Leaf to low battery warning (LBW), VLBW or even the dreaded Turtle (don't try that on the highway cause you'll only get 1/4-1/2 mile)? If not, then do that running around town and you'll see 5-10 mile between LBW and VLBW, and maybe another 5-10 mile until Turtle. Once you've done that, then you have a feel for the real range of the vehicle.

You'd better enjoy testing these things out now because elevation (you've discovered this), wind, rain, snow, slush on the roadway, cold temps, etc. will really sap the electrons out of your battery. The same thing happens in a gas car, except most people don't notice it because they're used to happily paying $100 to fill up. Enjoy the $2 fill ups and learn how to deal with the range. It's a great tool around town. Longer distance highway requires some additional skills and patience. Enjoy.

Don't pay attention to the GOM (guess-o-meter) or "miles remaining" gauge!

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Very true. It's based on your power consumption over the last few minutes, not trips.

Just look at how many battery bars there are - eventually you'll figure out how much driving you can count on from each.

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No! The bars aren't proportionate: the first and last bars have more range than the intermediate bars, and even they can vary. You should have a state of charge (SOC) display available from your dash display menu. Select that for constant display. That is by far the best gauge of range you have in the stock instrumentation.

Yes, we call it the Guess-O-Meter (GOM) for a reason. It is actually worse than useless, especially when changes in altitude are involved. In your case it assumed you were going to continue to go uphill for the rest of your trip and adjusted itself accordingly. It would have been equally misleading on the way back assuming you would go downhill the whole way. What I recommend doing is attempting a long trip where the terrain is flatter and charging is more plentiful. You need to know what kind of range you're going to get without having to rely on the GOM. Run the car down until you get at least one battery warning. So many LEAFers have no idea how far their car will go on the last two bars. and waste as much as a third of their available range.

As far as speed goes, the difference between 65mph and 70mph can be quite a bit. I recommend doing your daily commute (or some other often driven highway route) at 60 one time, the 65, then 70, and 75. Reset the miles per kW meter before each trip. That will give you 4 values and will help you understand the difference. Also study Tony Williams' range chart: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=101293

It is a gold mine of information and will help you plan longer trips with confidence.

When I got my first Leaf, I had the same range anxiety because I was so use to gas vehicles where you just keep adding gas (and money) forever and the heck with efficient driving. I knew that driving faster means less gas mileages, I could see that in my gas vehicles that had real-time mpg stats, driving over 65 MPH would cut my vehicle MPG by 15% from 33 to 28 on even the flattest roads. It doesn't really sink in until you start to drive an electric vehicle that driving habits need to be updated. I did a lot of research here before buying the Leaf so I knew not to expect 100 miles on every full charge and I knew the remaining miles meter is very, uh, interesting at guessing I guess. :mrgreen:

What I've found the most helpful is to take a look at the trip ahead of time and figure out the elevation difference. Being in Tennessee, I can drive down the highway on a trip that is only 40 miles, in which 10 miles is basically a +3000' elevation climb. The range meter is only taking a guess at the remaining miles based on your current and past few minutes of driving. It can't predict the entire trip, so when I drive for 10 miles up a very steep elevation, the remaining miles meter drops so fast, it is scary. But only because it assumes I am going to be driving up hill until I hit the edge of space and bases the range off of that. I encounter this when driving over Monteagle, TN which is an up and over the mountains drive. I know that when I hit the top of the city with 40% charge and 11 miles left on the GOM that I don't really have 11 miles left unless I am going to drive into the space station. Going back down the other side, I am just coasting mostly so then the GOM goes back up and I even put on an extra 7% back on the charge meter doing regen all the way down.

Looking at the elevation between Colorado Springs and Castle Rock, you would have no problems making the 40 mile trip at 100% charge in a brand new 2015. Mine is a 2013 with normal battery degradation and I wouldn't sweat the trip one bit at 70 mph cruise control. If I arrived in Castle Rock with less than 55% charge remaining, I would want to top off to at least before heading home. Something that would only take minutes at a QC or a half hour at a decent L2 station somewhere.

Looking at Castle Rock on plugshare you've got hundreds of L2 stations and many QC stations in the city, so really your drive between the two cities should be stress free.

martyh1 said:

Had my leaf for about a month now. Close to when I first got it, I decided to try a 40 mile trip (fully charged). After going only about 20 miles, I decided I couldn't take the chance. The range had dropped about 40 miles in that 20 miles. I live in Colorado Springs, and the trip was stopped at Monument. Admittedly, this is probably entirely an uphill drive (about 900 ft elevation increase). It was also the first time I took it on the freeway for any real amount of time. The return trip showed a drop of about 5 miles in range, so obviously the uphill/downhill made a big difference. But I have to admit to being shocked. I'm afraid I can't even make it 40 miles from Colorado Springs to Castle Rock (much less the extra 15 or so miles to south Denver; only a total of 52-55 miles). And Castle Rock has only one or two level 2 stations (and no fast charge stations).

Anyone else have similar experience? What are the best driving practices on the freeway. I had it in economy the entire time. I still haven't figured out when to use "B" drive instead of "D". Any tips appreciated.

Also, I didn't have any heat or air on. Nor the heated seats.

2015 Base model Nissan Leaf S

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Seek out a place to charge and make the trip on a day when you have time to relax.
Set the cruise at 62 and enjoy the ride.
In time you will get a better feel for how it all works.

LeftieBiker said:

Don't pay attention to the GOM (guess-o-meter) or "miles remaining" gauge!

Click to expand...

Very true. It's based on your power consumption over the last few minutes, not trips.

Just look at how many battery bars there are - eventually you'll figure out how much driving you can count on from each.

Click to expand...

No! The bars aren't proportionate: the first and last bars have more range than the intermediate bars, and even they can vary. You should have a state of charge (SOC) display available from your dash display menu. Select that for constant display. That is by far the best gauge of range you have in the stock instrumentation.

Click to expand...

When I said you'll figure what you can count on from each I didn't say that each was the same! I'm coming from the 2011 world where the SOC display wasn't an option so the bars were the best we could do until CAN decoding came around.

Hello from a fellow C Springs Leaf!
I have made a number of trips to the Denver area and beyond in my '15 S with QC no problem. I have posted about some over in the Regional->Mountain States area of this site if you're interested, but I'll recap some more here:

Keep in mind I live near Interquest and I-25, so if you're further south take that into account.

In reasonably warm weather I have driven as far as Louisville a number of times, 82 miles, and have between 17-22% remaining. I have driven to Canopy parking at DIA, 71 miles, with 22% remaining. And to LoDo or Denver museum of Nature and science, 58 miles, I'll have around 50% remaining. This is all in 50-80F whether, little wind, no heat, occasional AC. Haven't nor will I try in winter conditions.

On the way north, relax, drive the speed limit even (on the flats/downhills)! I take monument hill and the hill after castle rock at no more than 60-65, but other than that I keep it between 70-75 for the most part (top speed 80 downhill), even when going much further than Castle rock, so you'll have no problem getting there. Through Denver I keep to the speed limit or 5 over (which still feels slow in Denver traffic).

The way back from Castle rock you'll want to be a bit more conservative, go 65 for the most part, take hwy 83 or 105 if you want a more scenic traffic free drive and you'll save even more power. I usually use about 50% SOC from castle rock to the north end of the springs (33mi) if I keep to 65ish in good weather. I always drive in B mode and no ECO. ECO does nothing for you but I like to use B mode so I have full regen available if bad traffic appears. The trick is just to modulate the pedal to stay near the neutral bubble as much as possible. I try to keep to no more than 3 or 4 bubbles of power up the hills more so than going for a specific speed.

I usually charge at one of the QC's at the south end of Denver for the return trip, not that that applies to you if you're charging in castle rock.

When I said you'll figure what you can count on from each I didn't say that each was the same! I'm coming from the 2011 world where the SOC display wasn't an option so the bars were the best we could do until CAN decoding came around.

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I understand that, but trying to memorize how much each bar equals in range, and then adjusting for driving conditions at the time, that's just too much to ask of a new EV driver. The SOC readout is far superior - those bars really should be replaced by a graphic readout of the SOC, with say, 20 of them, each showing the same 5% increments.

Bought my Leaf about two months ago, I've been lurking here ever since. But I figured I'd chime in since I live in Castle Rock. I can't vouch for the L2 charger at Walgreens, seen it, but never used it. But there are four free L2 chargers at the hospital (that happens to be a few blocks from my house). I've seen some complaints on Plugshare about some of them not working. I've used the two on the North side with no issues. They are located in the NorthEast corner of the lot for the main entrance (not the emergency side). Its good that they have four of them since usually at least two of them are ICE'd. No EV only markings or anything to deter people.

As far as getting here. I'd stay off of 25 as much as possible. I'd be afraid that if you did slow down to anything less than 85 MPH you'd get rear ended. I know there is a back way from Monument taking 105. We actually have taken that route many times in the ICE due to traffic and/or not wanting to run the gauntlet.