newbie needs quality home charger
- Thread starter wsv3424
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rawhog
Well-known member
I and others here can safely say that the EVSE upgrade is about the best bang for your buck.
alright ,thanx very much appreciated!
I see a mere 60-70 miles available AFTER a overnight charge, does it mean the pack is about done?
Has 28k miles on a 2012 model SL.
Saw a "plugless drive -on "charger advertised , whats up w/that ?
Am I seeing gimickry?
I just got the car but if I only have 2 months warranty remaining guess I better make hay so to speak and get it in for a new battery upgrade ,right ?
If it is I may attempt finding a lower mileage SL locally here in Dallas.
Your view would be ?
mahalo friends
I see a mere 60-70 miles available AFTER a overnight charge, does it mean the pack is about done?
Has 28k miles on a 2012 model SL.
Saw a "plugless drive -on "charger advertised , whats up w/that ?
Am I seeing gimickry?
I just got the car but if I only have 2 months warranty remaining guess I better make hay so to speak and get it in for a new battery upgrade ,right ?
If it is I may attempt finding a lower mileage SL locally here in Dallas.
Your view would be ?
mahalo friends
Firetruck41
Well-known member
You should look through the manual for some of this info, but you can see the percentage of charge you have on the info screen in the gauge cluster by cycling through the info screens. On the battery gauge the small sections of the bars on the very right are the battery capacity bars, full capacity to about 85% will show as 12 bars. The larger bars next to it are the "state of charge". 12 bars is basically full, but how many miles you get on "full", depends on how much capacity the battery has, and your driving habits.
IIRC the plugless drive on charger was in the approx $3000 range. Not something I would spend money on, unless I was swimming in it.
The battery capacity warranty is 5 years/60k miles, so you have a lot longer than 2 months. You must be down to 8 battery capacity bars to get the new battery under warranty.
IIRC the plugless drive on charger was in the approx $3000 range. Not something I would spend money on, unless I was swimming in it.
The battery capacity warranty is 5 years/60k miles, so you have a lot longer than 2 months. You must be down to 8 battery capacity bars to get the new battery under warranty.
Bob
Well-known member
Dallas can be hot in the summer (and spring and fall). Heat is bad for batteries. So it is very possible that your battery is aging faster than you might like.
Unfortunately, the miles-remaining indicator is not a good tool, because it tries to adjust the range based on your driving style. If you drive gently, the number will go up a lot. If you drive like a testosterone-fueled teenager, the number will go down a lot. Other things also affect it, so your observation of 60-70 miles left after a charge is difficult to interpret.
The geeks here talk about battery capacity in units of GIDs. You can get a small "elm" bluetooth reader for $10 on ebay and pair it to a smart phone with an app called Leaf Spy. Using that combination, you can charge your car and read the number of GIDs available in the battery. That will give you a very objective picture of battery capacity.
A coarser indication of battery capacity is the bar chart on the far right side of the dash display. You will see a number of miles, some blue/white horizontal bars, and then, right of that, some thinner bars. The bottom two bars are red. The upper 10 bars are white. If all 12 bars are lit, then in theory, your battery still has 85% or more of original capacity. If 11 bars are lit, 77.5% to 85%. If 10 bars, 70% to 77.5%, etc. The top bar is worth 15%, all of the others are worth 7.5%. So you won't see the battery wear on this gauge until it gets below 85% of new capacity.
http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/batteries/leaf/soc-display.jpg
http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/batteries/leaf/soc-display.jpg
The 2015 Leaf and later have more heat-tolerant batteries, but we don't have any data on how much more heat tolerant.
A lot of people here like Clipper Creek chargers. They start at $400 and go up with increased charge rate. Another good option for hands-on people is to make their own based on the OpenEVSE project.
Drive-on chargers are really convenient. But they are expensive. If you bought an EV to save money, this will probably not be a good option. Another drawback of them is that they are inefficient. In other words, some of the power from the power line goes to charge the battery, but a lot of it also goes to heat. If you bought an EV to save the planet, this can seem counter-productive.
I hope that this helps.
Bob
Unfortunately, the miles-remaining indicator is not a good tool, because it tries to adjust the range based on your driving style. If you drive gently, the number will go up a lot. If you drive like a testosterone-fueled teenager, the number will go down a lot. Other things also affect it, so your observation of 60-70 miles left after a charge is difficult to interpret.
The geeks here talk about battery capacity in units of GIDs. You can get a small "elm" bluetooth reader for $10 on ebay and pair it to a smart phone with an app called Leaf Spy. Using that combination, you can charge your car and read the number of GIDs available in the battery. That will give you a very objective picture of battery capacity.
A coarser indication of battery capacity is the bar chart on the far right side of the dash display. You will see a number of miles, some blue/white horizontal bars, and then, right of that, some thinner bars. The bottom two bars are red. The upper 10 bars are white. If all 12 bars are lit, then in theory, your battery still has 85% or more of original capacity. If 11 bars are lit, 77.5% to 85%. If 10 bars, 70% to 77.5%, etc. The top bar is worth 15%, all of the others are worth 7.5%. So you won't see the battery wear on this gauge until it gets below 85% of new capacity.
http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/batteries/leaf/soc-display.jpg
http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/batteries/leaf/soc-display.jpg
The 2015 Leaf and later have more heat-tolerant batteries, but we don't have any data on how much more heat tolerant.
A lot of people here like Clipper Creek chargers. They start at $400 and go up with increased charge rate. Another good option for hands-on people is to make their own based on the OpenEVSE project.
Drive-on chargers are really convenient. But they are expensive. If you bought an EV to save money, this will probably not be a good option. Another drawback of them is that they are inefficient. In other words, some of the power from the power line goes to charge the battery, but a lot of it also goes to heat. If you bought an EV to save the planet, this can seem counter-productive.
I hope that this helps.
Bob
smkettner
Well-known member
You need to lose four capacity bars before 60 months or 60,000 miles to get a free battery under warranty.wsv3424 said:alright ,thanx very much appreciated!
I see a mere 60-70 miles available AFTER a overnight charge, does it mean the pack is about done?
Has 28k miles on a 2012 model SL.
Saw a "plugless drive -on "charger advertised , whats up w/that ?
Am I seeing gimickry?
I just got the car but if I only have 2 months warranty remaining guess I better make hay so to speak and get it in for a new battery upgrade ,right ?
If it is I may attempt finding a lower mileage SL locally here in Dallas.
Your view would be ?
mahalo friends
Yes get it into the dealer and get it checked. Otherwise about $5,000.
EVforRobert
Well-known member
Schneider 30A EVSE from Home Depot hard wired by my favorite electrician flawless for over three years. First used with Volt 3.3 Kw then LEAF 6.6 Kw.wsv3424 said:
That feature (state of charge reading) was not part of the first gen (2011-2012) Leaf instrumentation. It was begged for by drivers on this forum and others, and was implemented on the 2013 model year and after. Drivers of the early Leafs have only the fuel bars and range estimator, unless they add a device with Leaf Spy.
Rather than spending $300 on modding your charger by EVSE, I would recommend spending a little more and getting a hard wired L2 charger. Amazon had the GE EV Charger Indoor/Outdoor Level-2 DuraStation on sale last week for $380 with free prime shipping. You can also get a Clipper Creek 3.6kw unit for $380....
That way you have 2 chargers and both are UL listed. If you have a fire with the EVSE modded charger and your insurance company finds out it was modded....... no $$$$ for you!
That way you have 2 chargers and both are UL listed. If you have a fire with the EVSE modded charger and your insurance company finds out it was modded....... no $$$$ for you!
Clipper Creek charging stations (not "chargers" - those are built into the cars, with the external units supplying them with house current) are made in the US, simple, rugged, and reasonably priced.
wow, got more info. than I ever dreamed of, BIG THANX from the newbie.
Going to take a few days to decypher this before jumping into a charging station as the available options are many . Really appreciate your input and hope I'll get the hang of this car cause I do like it immensly but wonder now if I made a miscue getting a EV . I was caring for my 99 yr. old mom and didnt use a car much but she has since passed 4 days after buying m Leaf and now I am finding I am driving a considerable amount of miles and if this can keep up w/my demands. May be forced to get a small truck to use on days when more driving is required.
You guys are tops . I'm 65 in March and need all the help I can get,lol!!
You guys dont tear 'em up now. I'll try not to also.
Going to take a few days to decypher this before jumping into a charging station as the available options are many . Really appreciate your input and hope I'll get the hang of this car cause I do like it immensly but wonder now if I made a miscue getting a EV . I was caring for my 99 yr. old mom and didnt use a car much but she has since passed 4 days after buying m Leaf and now I am finding I am driving a considerable amount of miles and if this can keep up w/my demands. May be forced to get a small truck to use on days when more driving is required.
You guys are tops . I'm 65 in March and need all the help I can get,lol!!
You guys dont tear 'em up now. I'll try not to also.
Firetruck41
Well-known member
We have had our 2013 Leaf for about 1.5 months, we put about 1400 miles on it in 30 days, with just the level 1 (120v) charging cable that came with the Leaf. I just ordered an OpenEVSE and that will increase our ability to use it even more, though, I think it will probably end up less than 1400 mi/mo on average. Anyways, I feel like we have been able to get a lot of use out of it, probably beyond my expectations. It almost meets all of our needs as a family of five, except when we must be in two places at once, and that means one of us has to take one of our other conventional cars/truck.
Thanx firetruck, appreciate your reply .
Do you have 12 bars ? Mine shows but 10 total after a full charge w/120v option?
My miles are currently showing but 75 after charging since last night around 7 pm so I wonder considering that does it mean my pack is short lived going forward?
if so thats a shame caues I'll most certainly need all that and more or will be charging constantly ,ruining the pack even more correct?
Will most likely swap it for a 14-15 or chill till 16's arrive w/super-duper battery pack .
thanx again
Do you have 12 bars ? Mine shows but 10 total after a full charge w/120v option?
My miles are currently showing but 75 after charging since last night around 7 pm so I wonder considering that does it mean my pack is short lived going forward?
if so thats a shame caues I'll most certainly need all that and more or will be charging constantly ,ruining the pack even more correct?
Will most likely swap it for a 14-15 or chill till 16's arrive w/super-duper battery pack .
thanx again
Firetruck41
Well-known member
I have 12 "state of charge" bars when fully charged and the range on the Guess-o-Meter usually says 80 when fully charged. It can definitely take more than 12 hours to charge the pack. I was mistaken about the percentage on the gauges, as that was pointed out, it was not available until 2013 models. But, I believe you should have twelve "state of charge" bars when fully charged and the third LED on the upper dash charging LEDs should stop blinking, on a full charge.wsv3424 said:
Frankly, I have decided to just use the car to its fullest, regardless of how often I need to charge it, so my plan is to keep it full or near full, whenever possible, as between my wife and I and all the kids activities, we use the car often and somewhat unpredictably. Whether this has a significant detrimental impact on the battery capacity over time is not something that can be pinned down exactly, but I figure, it will be worth the cost of a battery some years down the road, if need be (and if not still under capacity warranty). As I am saving about $250/mo in fuel costs, it only needs to last about 2 years before the cost of a new battery pack would pay for itself. I am looking forward to the availability of off lease 2016 and 2018 Leafs a few years down the road!
Bob
Well-known member
Your battery is not bad. It has plenty of life. But it isn't new. Ten bars means that you have roughly 75% of the range of a new battery. That's not surprising and not alarming because you have a 2012 with 28K miles and live in a hot climate. After another three years, you might be down to 50% of the range of a new battery. Is that acceptable to you?
Someone developed an accurate model for battery life vs number of miles and climate, but I can't find it. It's here somewhere.
Bob
Someone developed an accurate model for battery life vs number of miles and climate, but I can't find it. It's here somewhere.
Bob
smkettner
Well-known member
I recommend ClipperCreek for charging. Do you have easy access to a 240 volt circuit or are you pulling wire?
PluglessSteve
Member
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2015
- Messages
- 7
Greetings all - disclosure, I work for Plugless. I know the ship has likely already sailed for you wsv3424 but should it be helpful for anyone else reading this thread I thought I would provide some info.
We are very real company (Evatran) and Plugless is a very real wireless charger for your LEAF. We began our field trials in 2011 with partner companies like Google, Hertz, SAP, UC Davis, Clemson and the U.S. Department of Energy among others. With more than 15,000 successful charge hours, we improved the system and began selling to Volt and LEAF owners in early 2014 (and then to ELR owners later in the year). We have customers all over the U.S. and Canada and more than 300,000 successful charge hours. There is currently a large trial underway across Sweden and we recently announce $1.6MM investment from a Chinese auto-parts manufacturer (VIE). Having written that, our entire operation is U.S. based (R&D In N.C., HQ and manufacturing is in Virginia).
The current system is a true 3.3kW charger and it is ETL certified: http://www.intertek.com/news/2014/03-24-plugless-l2-first-wireless-etl-ev-charger/ - the certification portion of that press release has the rundown: "The PLUGLESS L2 System was tested to UL 2594, and CSA C22.2 No. 280-13 the Standard for Safety for Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment, allowing it to carry the cETLus mark for the USA and Canada."
Because of our momentum on many fronts, we have been able to lower our prices significantly, Plugless for LEAF is $1,540 - that INCLUDES free shipping and the cost of installing the adaptor on the LEAF. We also offer 3-year lease, which is $150 at purchase and $49 per month for the next 35 payments. (All these prices are quoted in U.S. dollars). We can also offer 0% interest installment payment plans.
For the technically minded - here is the Idaho National Labs testing page for EVSEs. They conducted more than 18,7000 separate tests on Plugless and we are the ONLY wireless EV charging system that has this sort of published 3rd party testing (a requirement of working with INL): http://avt.inl.gov/evse.shtml
Hit me with questions.
Steve C.
We are very real company (Evatran) and Plugless is a very real wireless charger for your LEAF. We began our field trials in 2011 with partner companies like Google, Hertz, SAP, UC Davis, Clemson and the U.S. Department of Energy among others. With more than 15,000 successful charge hours, we improved the system and began selling to Volt and LEAF owners in early 2014 (and then to ELR owners later in the year). We have customers all over the U.S. and Canada and more than 300,000 successful charge hours. There is currently a large trial underway across Sweden and we recently announce $1.6MM investment from a Chinese auto-parts manufacturer (VIE). Having written that, our entire operation is U.S. based (R&D In N.C., HQ and manufacturing is in Virginia).
The current system is a true 3.3kW charger and it is ETL certified: http://www.intertek.com/news/2014/03-24-plugless-l2-first-wireless-etl-ev-charger/ - the certification portion of that press release has the rundown: "The PLUGLESS L2 System was tested to UL 2594, and CSA C22.2 No. 280-13 the Standard for Safety for Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment, allowing it to carry the cETLus mark for the USA and Canada."
Because of our momentum on many fronts, we have been able to lower our prices significantly, Plugless for LEAF is $1,540 - that INCLUDES free shipping and the cost of installing the adaptor on the LEAF. We also offer 3-year lease, which is $150 at purchase and $49 per month for the next 35 payments. (All these prices are quoted in U.S. dollars). We can also offer 0% interest installment payment plans.
For the technically minded - here is the Idaho National Labs testing page for EVSEs. They conducted more than 18,7000 separate tests on Plugless and we are the ONLY wireless EV charging system that has this sort of published 3rd party testing (a requirement of working with INL): http://avt.inl.gov/evse.shtml
Hit me with questions.
Steve C.
AlbertoKnox
New member
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2015
- Messages
- 3
Hi, Steve!
I don't want to hijack this thread but the OP did ask about Plugless and that's what brought me here. I have a couple quick questions maybe you can answer for me.
What is the efficiency of the plugless connection vs, a plug-in connection? I am not referring to inefficiencies in the charging process itself, only in the transmission of energy from the power connection on the wall to the charger in the vehicle. Folks here are interested in efficiency and many are technically minded so I'm sure others want to know too.
Second; Why did you choose ETL over UL? I'm not here to besmirch ETL but they do have a reputation for being found on lower end equipment (or so I have been told, don't sue me). It seems that a new technology start-up would go with the most widely respected rating. Was ETL that much faster? Do you plan to seek UL registration?
I think it is a fascinating product. I hope you do well. When I get my next car I may order one.
AK
I don't want to hijack this thread but the OP did ask about Plugless and that's what brought me here. I have a couple quick questions maybe you can answer for me.
What is the efficiency of the plugless connection vs, a plug-in connection? I am not referring to inefficiencies in the charging process itself, only in the transmission of energy from the power connection on the wall to the charger in the vehicle. Folks here are interested in efficiency and many are technically minded so I'm sure others want to know too.
Second; Why did you choose ETL over UL? I'm not here to besmirch ETL but they do have a reputation for being found on lower end equipment (or so I have been told, don't sue me). It seems that a new technology start-up would go with the most widely respected rating. Was ETL that much faster? Do you plan to seek UL registration?
I think it is a fascinating product. I hope you do well. When I get my next car I may order one.
AK
PluglessSteve
Member
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2015
- Messages
- 7
AK,
Sooooo sorry, I thought I had set my notifications up correctly, but I am just now seeing your post and questions:
Plugless is roughly ~7% less efficient than level 1 charging and roughly 12% less efficient than level 3.3kW charging. Transparency is important to us - so we derive these numbers from the U.S. Dept. of Energy's Idaho National Laboratory testing of corded chargers and its extensive testing on Plugless (more than 8,700 separate tests). You can find all that data here: http://avt.inl.gov/evse.shtml.
Internet - lots of chatter out there isn't there? We won't sue, promise. Leviton, the EVSE manufacturer, answered this question so...so well. We concur with their top comment, the turnaround was the main thing for us. http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibcGetAttachment.jsp?cItemId=EToxguw9CT0479E8ICyXIg - 100% hat tip to their comms department.
Thanks - we're kinda fond of it too. Shoot me an email if you want any advance notice on the EVs we are rolling out Plugless for, deals and info. stevec [at Evatran doc com]
Steve C.
Sooooo sorry, I thought I had set my notifications up correctly, but I am just now seeing your post and questions:
Plugless is roughly ~7% less efficient than level 1 charging and roughly 12% less efficient than level 3.3kW charging. Transparency is important to us - so we derive these numbers from the U.S. Dept. of Energy's Idaho National Laboratory testing of corded chargers and its extensive testing on Plugless (more than 8,700 separate tests). You can find all that data here: http://avt.inl.gov/evse.shtml.
Internet - lots of chatter out there isn't there? We won't sue, promise. Leviton, the EVSE manufacturer, answered this question so...so well. We concur with their top comment, the turnaround was the main thing for us. http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibcGetAttachment.jsp?cItemId=EToxguw9CT0479E8ICyXIg - 100% hat tip to their comms department.
Thanks - we're kinda fond of it too. Shoot me an email if you want any advance notice on the EVs we are rolling out Plugless for, deals and info. stevec [at Evatran doc com]
Steve C.
Genmrough:
Modified or not(as in EVSE)has no bearing on insurance coverage. 30+ years as an insurance adjuster, believe me, they(H/O insurance for your home or auto insurance if it is the car you are claiming)would have to pay. Not sure what you mean by not getting paid. The EVSE does NOT void the Nissan warranty, and even if the insurance company could prove that the modifications caused the fire, it would still be covered. Your H/O insurance company might try to then cancel your policy, but the coverage is there regardless.
Modified or not(as in EVSE)has no bearing on insurance coverage. 30+ years as an insurance adjuster, believe me, they(H/O insurance for your home or auto insurance if it is the car you are claiming)would have to pay. Not sure what you mean by not getting paid. The EVSE does NOT void the Nissan warranty, and even if the insurance company could prove that the modifications caused the fire, it would still be covered. Your H/O insurance company might try to then cancel your policy, but the coverage is there regardless.
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