New 2015 Leaf S...With the Newbie Questions...

Evening!

2015 Leaf S, with charge package. wanted SV, but couldn't justify it at the time......until maybe a second one!?

Did it..always wanted to, but finally got rid of a 2014 ICE and dove into it....even bought. Figure with the state (CT) rebates and dealer incentives, you can't go wrong....but I am a tinkerer when I get time. Rather than expect any value in the car in 3-5 years, I could turn the beat up pack into a solar storage tank....or something!

Anyways, not a regret in the world....yet I commute 15 miles each way up and down hills in CT. Have 800 or so on the odometer as of today, and still have a few questions.....

While I have faith in Tesla, and believe something like the Model S will be available for a decent price in the future, I had to go in early and try the little ugly car. Even bought one off the lot in the new 2015 blue...which, is kind of terrible lol!

I have done some experimenting with range and am pleasantly surprised.

Showing 3.5 miles on the average mile/kWh meter as of this mileage.

I set it to be ready when I leave in the AM (now have a Lvl 2 charger in the house)

I see over 100 miles available everyday I charge.

We have taken it on one long 150 mile (total) round trip so far, doing quick charges up and back for 15 mins to keep us going

Charge every 2 days for the last week, just for the daily commute......questions start.....

So, I see that there USED to be a 80% charge option in all cars.....not anymore. Do I need to care about charging to 100% in a 2015? Should I only leave it charged at full for a few hours....or is that drama all over? (I own it...remember)

Please verify that we should trade in our late model Accord as well....because I am on the verge already! (we don't need to go long distance)...and if we did, we have a "beater" SUV that is only used to haul out boat, as well as what seems like...plenty of charging stations.

Should I leave it plugged into the charge station all the time..even if it isn't charging, and set on a timer for a day or so later? (like a weekend....) I cant tell if it actually does anything, like maintain the 12V battery or anything..

Winter.....is it going to kill me in an S with the old school heater? In CT, we see sustained temps below freezing for months at a time. It will be garage kept if needed (though, I would rather not and just plug it in...and let the car deal with heating itself off the plug,) What loss of mileage can I expect to see from summer (80-90 degrees) to winter?

Thanks in advance!

Nick

* Charging to 100%. It is still a concern, especially in hot weather, just not as much an immediate one. Since you own the car and plan to keep it, try to avoid leaving it at 100% for more than a few hours, again especially in hot weather. Just don't worry about it if you forget once or twice.

* Selling the other ICE car. That's more a judgement call. If you can use the money it would bring, and aren't using it, sell it. If it's typically reliable for a late model Honda, you may find that if you have a genuine use for it at least a few times a month, it prevents range anxiety from developing.

* Leaving the car plugged in. No! AFAIK they haven't fixed the charging algorithm that lets the car kill the accessory battery if left plugged in but not charging for long periods. If it's convenient to leave it plugged in, with the timer keeping it from staying at 100%, add a lead for a battery maintainer. You can run it into the charging port compartment.

You will be fine with the resistance heater in the S because your commute is short so it won't matter if you use extra power to stay warm. Try to drive it some within a few hours after charging to 100% so it doesn't stay at 100% for extended time. You don't need to make a special effort to unplug it as soon as charging is complete, but unplug when convenient for you to go out to the car. It is best to have the state of charge in the range of 30% to 70% and car unplugged if it will be parked while on vacation.

Gerry

Congratulations on your new ride! I also was a little disappointed by the lighter shade of blue, but the few I've seen driving around don't look all that bad. Way better than... but that can only fan the flames of discord..

Thirty miles per day will be no strain.

Do some searching on the boards of this forum for the history of the removal of the stop-at-80% charging feature.

Even as inaccurate as it is, the LEAF's instrumentation makes you much more aware of the costs of the "normal" driving practices such as roaring ahead just so you can wait longer at the next stoplight. You'll tend to become more energy efficient over time. When I first got my LEAF, I was doing around 4.3mi/KWh in summer, 3.5 or so in winter (according to the dash display). This summer, I'm getting about 5.2mi/KWh, and expect to get about 4 this winter. Some of the improvement is due to inflating the tires more, but some of it is due to managing momentum better.

I don't think anyone has been able to model the battery life precisely, but a lot of folks are putting in some good efforts in that direction. In particular, look up the YouTube video of Dr. Jeff Dahn's lecture on Li-ion batteries from a year or so back. The situation is a bit like managing one's own health: No one quite knows how to predict exactly how many days you'll shorten your life if you eat that extra slice of pizza, but there are some general guidelines like, "avoid gorging on Happy Meals and Twinkies" that you can just follow and hope for the best. Although it might be possible for the newer LEAF 'lizard battery' chemistry to display radically different aging/degrading characteristics, the best guess is that the things that "stress" the battery's health are probably the same as ever: calendar time, charge level, and temperature, just to different degrees. Don't obsess over it, but if you operate the car so as to minimize the time the battery spends at high states of charge and temperature, that should make for a longer service life.

As far as leaving the LEAF plugged in all the time: It's OK for the car to be plugged in when not being driven, so long as you DO drive the car enough to deplete a fair bit of charge each day. I'm hazy on the details, but the LEAF's design is apparently a little flawed as regards how it manages the 12V lead-acid battery that runs its computer and other systems, and apparently if a LEAF's plugged into an EVSE, it'll only charge the 12V battery if/when it charges the main propulsion battery. So if it remains plugged in way past the time that the main battery reaches its programmed charge limit, there won't be any more main battery charging, and (thanks to the design drawback) no 12V charging either. Unfortunately, the 12V system DOES have enough parasitic and standby power drain to need fairly frequent recharging. If you're going to leave the LEAF idle for several days or weeks, the consensus is that it should be disconnected from the EVSE (again, there are plenty of good threads on this site about this).

Our winters here in the PNW lowlands are pretty mild compared to yours, so I haven't had much cold-weather LEAF driving experience that you'd credit. My 2012SL has the same resistance heater your S-trim car uses, though. For me, the big worry and constant battle is against moisture and the resultant condensation on the windows. Even that isn't really a problem with my 20 mile roundtrip commute, but it can be if I have to go on a longer journey. If it's just a dry cold, the seat and steering wheel heaters keep me remarkably comfortable, particularly if I use a simple lap blanket, and their consumption is insignificant.

Running the car's climate control system on "shore power" is effective, but it's set up to only run for fifteen minutes or so; either as programmed via a timer or commanded via CarWings. I don't think you can easily leave the climate system running continuously.

If you want to take advantage of your short commute and not have your battery charge to 100% all the time, try setting up a sufficiently brief "charging window" by setting both a Start and an End time, so as to just replace the charge used that day.

I'm hazy on the details, but the LEAF's design is apparently a little flawed as regards how it manages the 12V lead-acid battery that runs its computer and other systems, and apparently if a LEAF's plugged into an EVSE, it'll only charge the 12V battery if/when it charges the main propulsion battery. So if it remains plugged in way past the time that the main battery reaches its programmed charge limit, there won't be any more main battery charging, and (thanks to the design drawback) no 12V charging either. Unfortunately, the 12V system DOES have enough parasitic and standby power drain to need fairly frequent recharging.

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That isn't quite right. here's what happens when the car is plugged in: the charging system keeps checking the status of the EVSE at regular intervals (15 minutes?) while plugged in, so if it isn't charging that's the parasitic drain. And yes, it only provides power to the accessory battery while the car is charging, and even that isn't as much as it could be. It can thus deplete the accessory battery in a few days, and keep it chronically undercharged at least. When unplugged there isn't usually a drain, although a few Leaf owners have found one, in a few cars. I have a hardwired battery maintainer lead in mine, run into the charging port area, and I find that whenever I plug the maintainer in, it takes 30-60 minutes to top off the battery. And this is a 2 amp unit. So even without that extra drain from being plugged in while not charging, the car does a mediocre job of keeping that little battery full, especially if you take lots of short trips. Commuters who drive the car for 30+ minutes at a time seem to have less trouble with the accessory battery.

I have the hybrid heating system (heatpump plus resistance heater) but I'll offer a tip on that, too: block your grille in the Fall as soon as it gets cold enough to require use of the heater, and leave it blocked until Spring. Just don't run the A/C with it blocked. That front grille opening does nothing but dissipate heat from your heater in Winter. Oh, and since Nissan decided, in their infinite wisdom, to not allow Recirculate and Defrost modes to be active together, get used to using the Floor setting for both heat and Defrost if you are sensitive to exhaust fumes and need to close the fresh air intake quickly...

LeftieBiker said:

* Selling the other ICE car. That's more a judgement call. If you can use the money it would bring, and aren't using it, sell it. If it's typically reliable for a late model Honda, you may find that if you have a genuine use for it at least a few times a month, it prevents range anxiety from developing.

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Thanks for the replies so far, still learning! Anyways, to clarify my question on getting rid of the Honda as well - we need two daily drivers (one for the wife and kid errands and activities,) and I would REPLACE the Honda with another Leaf - making us a 2 EV family. Not sure if the wait for 2016 or 2017 models would be worth it?

Thanks,
Nick

desertdualsport said:

LeftieBiker said:

* Selling the other ICE car. That's more a judgement call. If you can use the money it would bring, and aren't using it, sell it. If it's typically reliable for a late model Honda, you may find that if you have a genuine use for it at least a few times a month, it prevents range anxiety from developing.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the replies so far, still learning! Anyways, to clarify my question on getting rid of the Honda as well - we need two daily drivers (one for the wife and kid errands and activities,) and I would REPLACE the Honda with another Leaf - making us a 2 EV family. Not sure if the wait for 2016 or 2017 models would be worth it?

Thanks,
Nick

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Depends, as there are rumors that the 2016 SV/SL may offer higher battery capacity and more range. No one is sure but it may be 25-30% range increase. 2017 MAY introduce the second gen Leaf which may have body redesign and MAY have 200 mile range.

Levenkay said:

Running the car's climate control system on "shore power" is effective, but it's set up to only run for fifteen minutes or so; either as programmed via a timer or commanded via CarWings. I don't think you can easily leave the climate system running continuously.

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I thought you can run HVAC for up to 2 hours if plugged in, and only 15 minutes if not (and car not turned on)?

If you want to take advantage of your short commute and not have your battery charge to 100% all the time, try setting up a sufficiently brief "charging window" by setting both a Start and an End time, so as to just replace the charge used that day.

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OP has a Leaf S so no start timer. End timer only.

The Climate Control will run for two hours, when connected to an active Level 2 EVSE, before turning itself off. I'm not sure of behavior when connected to other power sources. On battery, it only runs for 15 minutes before automatic shutdown.

baustin said:

The Climate Control will run for two hours, when connected to an active Level 2 EVSE, before turning itself off. I'm not sure of behavior when connected to other power sources. On battery, it only runs for 15 minutes before automatic shutdown.

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how to turn on the timer the heater when the vehicle is not connected to the mains supply?
without CarWings.

I don't know if it is possible in a S model. I have a SV model and use CarWings. The SV does have a Climate Control timer where you set the departure time and it comes on about a half hour before, but I think it only works if connected to the EVSE.