Considering 2013 Nissan Leaf - questions, dealer interaction

Hello everyone.

I'm currently looking for a used 2013 Nissan Leaf.

The 2013 because of its faster onboard charger.



With a regular 7kW L2 J1772 charging station, to have the car from near-empty to near-full in 3h, instead of 6h or 7h, seems like such a big difference to me.
When one might be charging while shopping in a mall somewhere, or watching a movie, it's nice to have a full or nearly full charge again afterwards.
With a 3.6kW charger, in the same situation, one maybe would have only a half full battery and would have to kill several hours in order to have a full charge again. That's not nice, and so a 6.6kW charger is a must.

Also a must is a CHAdeMO quick charge port. To be stuck somewhere for hours because the battery is empty and the car can only charge with L2 J1772, not with CHAdeMO, that is not so nice.
But in that situation to be able to charge for 20 minutes with CHAdeMO and be nearly full again, in my view, that can make driving a Leaf much more practical.



When trying to find out what exact 2013 Leaf to look for, this webpage (clicking on "Specs") has been very useful:

http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/presskits/us-2013-nissan-leaf-press-kit#specs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



If it just came to wanting the 6.6kw onboard charger and CHAdeMO, then the "S" trim with the "Charge Package" would be good enough.

At the same time though, the S does not have cruise control, and for longer rides, cruise control makes driving much more comfortable.
Also, SV has the heat pump, that can save energy when it's cold outside.
Also, CarWings is nice. So now at least the "SV" trim line would be necessary, with the "LED Headlights + Quick Charge Port" option.





Looking for used 2013 Nissan Leafs with SV trim and LED & QC option, one difficulty is, that there's no way to reliably search for it, which cars have the LED & QC option, so it's a lot of work, and online most dealers don't mention it, which option packages the cars they offer have. So one has to call.
Some of them even don't know when being asked on the phone.

To top it off, some dealers, even write the wrong trim level into the offer.
Already saw several "SV"s, that actually turned out to be "S" trim level cars.


Trying to find out by looking at pictures, which trim and which options a certain car for sale has,
or trying to ask dealers for information, I came across the following questions:

1) is there any way to see, by looking at pictures, if the charge has Quick Charge (and subsequently 6.6kw onboard charger) or not?
So far, I'd say, there's no way to see if a car has QC, besides looking at the charge port itself.

2) what about the dark cloth interior? Of course there's the regular cloth interior of the S, but the SV has the "Partially recycled cloth seat fabric".
In the past (2011 and 2012), the partially recycling cloth seat fabric was always bright.
And the 2013 SV also has the bright recycled seat fabric, but did the 2013 SV also have dark recycled cloth seat fabric?
If yes, how can one distinguish it from the dark non-recycled cloth seat fabric of the S?

3) With 2013 Nissan Leafs, the battery capacity warranty should have no "BO133" issue anymore.
Any 2013 Nissan Leaf does have the 60month, 60,000mi battery capacity warranty.
Some 27,000mi 2013 Leafs on offer only show 10 capacity bars in the dashboard though.

Is it better to buy a 2013 Leaf with 10 bars, as then possibly it gets down to 8 bars still within the 60 months / 60,000mi, and one gets a new battery for free?
(Yes, it could also just be a battery with 9 bars, still so far all got a new battery)

Or is it better to buy a 2013 Leaf with 12 bars, even though it might be just shortly before going down to 11 bars, and possibly it might stay above 8 bars until 60 months / 60,000mi are over, and possibly drops down to 8 bars just after the 60 months / 60,000 miles, so one has to then live with a significantly limited range for years and years, in case one wants to keep the car for a long time? Or as an alternative, having to spend $6,000 on a new battery then?

Why not just go for an SL where most of those questions are answered automatically? Value does exist if you want to parse the differences between various S and SV configurations. I don't know if risk vs. incremental cost benefit is worth it.

Since time and heat seem to be the two biggest drivers, with mileage a distant third, toward reduced battery capacity, it is unlikely you will find a 2013 with full capacity. At least not enough capacity difference for which to pay a premium. Check that battery out with the various tools, not the dash indicators.

Good to see you've done some homework.

Can you update your location info via User Control Panel (near top) > Profile (left side)? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.

What are your daily driving needs in terms of miles? How much city vs. highway? Will you have the ability to charge at your work/destinations?

AskingQuestions said:

Also a must is a CHAdeMO quick charge port. To be stuck somewhere for hours because the battery is empty and the car can only charge with L2 J1772, not with CHAdeMO, that is not so nice.
But in that situation to be able to charge for 20 minutes with CHAdeMO and be nearly full again, in my view, that can make driving a Leaf much more practical.

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It certainly hasn't been a must for me. I've used my CHAdeMO inlet ~16 times in the almost 2 years I've had my car. They were almost never musts... In almost every case, if I'd charged to full at home/earlier and/or didn't want to spend the time to pick up free juice, I wouldn't have needed it. And, in most of those cases, I had more than enough juice to make it home w/o DC FCing.

There are some here who have NEVER used their CHAdeMO inlet and/or even fewer time than me, like once or twice, to try it.

In my area, the DC FCs are either not in convienient locations and/or a ripoff to charge at.

http://www.nrgevgo.com/san-francisco-bay-area/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; or Blink's 59 cents/kWh to DC FC!

I'm contemplating leasing a Fiat 500e instead of extending my Leaf lease for another year. The 500e (and many other BEVs) don't have DC FC capability. It's not that important for my use cases and my area.

AskingQuestions said:

2) what about the dark cloth interior? Of course there's the regular cloth interior of the S, but the SV has the "Partially recycled cloth seat fabric".
In the past (2011 and 2012), the partially recycling cloth seat fabric was always bright.
And the 2013 SV also has the bright recycled seat fabric, but did the 2013 SV also have dark recycled cloth seat fabric?

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Yes. On the '13 SV, that was the ONLY trim that gave the choice of the dark or light interior. Light interior was the ONLY choice on '11 and '12. '13 S has only the black cloth interior. '13 SL has only the black leather interior.

I didn't want S and didn't want to pay for leather as I didn't want it, so I didn't want the SL.

AskingQuestions said:

Some 27,000mi 2013 Leafs on offer only show 10 capacity bars in the dashboard though.

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That's pretty bad. You should maybe check Carfax and/or Autocheck to see where the car's resided. If you want one w/more remaining capacity, you'd want one that resided in mild climate (e.g. Seattle area, city of San Francisco instead of places that are hot like Walnut Creek and Concord or worse, places like Phoenix or much of Texas).

I still have all my capacity bars on my '13 at ~22K miles, but I'm not in that cool an area. Fortunately, my car is able to be in underground parking at work many days, instead of out in the sun.

Yes the 13 is a good update. I drive A 13S for work and own an 11SL . I like the parking brake, the 25 miles in range an hour for charging, the light in the charge door, standard heated seats, the trunk area. MY 11 has a way to defeat the noise maker for low speed, and they were made in Japan.
The SL trim by far is the way to buy a used leaf. identify and SL by the solar panel at the top of the rear hatch. The gains for the $500 more are a good deal. I bought my leaf used 1.5 yeas ago in Los Angeles Ca. ,and I have been shopping Lately for a used leaf for a friend. This is what I have found form both experiences.
1 The sales staff are miss informed, you will be miss lead by them. do not ask any questions or accept any answer with out checking.
2 get leaf spy, Take leaf spy and check the battery to know what you are buying.
3 a lot of used leafs with the SL/SV have the radio SD card removed, Imo this is to hide the long term data on the battery. the card is hard to get and only works on that car. The data for range is off with out it. It took a month to get the card and $400 . If the pic in the add has the back-up cam on the radio the card is likely missing. the lot answer is "we can get the card just not now it is at ......... we can get it for you!" NO, GET THE SD CARD BEFORE YOU TEST DRIVE! on the test drive. I would drive about 40 miles to get a feel for range. look at Tony William chart and check it for range, try the fast charger and J1772 before you buy. make sure it has the 110 AC cord in the trunk ( not just the bag) drop $600 off the price if missing.
4 My 11SL was sent from Phoenix AZ. A 3 bar looser with 20k miles on the car. It had all bars when I bought it. lost them after I installed the SD card. now at 54k I still have 3 bars I am at 43.40 AH waiting for the bar to drop, not driving the car much. I thought I would have a new battery by now? So don't buy a 3 bar looser. The short range and a new to EV driver is not a good match.
5 These cars are tight, no rattles or squeaks. If you note any on the test drive...run away.
Where are you? what part of the USA?
Have fun with your new toy. the leaf is a great car.

The LED option isn't a 'must-have' option. It replaces the good halogen low beams with a slightly better set of LED Low beams, leaving the terrible halogen High beams, IIRC. You can tell which cars have QC by looking at photos of the engine compartment (two extra red-orange thick cables run from the nose of the car to the charger) or photos of the open charge port (a second, larger port with a cover is visible, instead of one smaller L-2 port and a blank plate. My Leaf has no QC, but my *region* also has no QC, so it hasn't really been an issue. ;-)

@speedski97: thank you very much for your reply. It is appreciated very much. I am aware that the MY11/12 were built in Japan. And I know they had the possibility to switch off the electric car spaceship exterior drive alert, and that's a feature I'll miss on the 2013 Nissan Leaf. Still to me, being able to recharge at virtually any L2 charging station with the 6.6kW onboard charger outweighs the silent drive multiple times, though I absolutely love the MY11/12 silent drive. Would be great if one could have both.

Guess there's no way of getting around LeafSpy and the ELM327 OBDII Bluetooth adapter. I read so much about these things yet, still didn't deal with them it detail or try it out oneself yet. I'll see how all of that goes...

Finally, I already dealt with the SD card issue. Still, the story you tell is a very good cautionary tale. F.e., there is a dealer who I contacted with what seems like an amazing deal, only he doesn't have the SD card for the car. I already looked up here on the forum the procedure of getting the SD card from one of the few Nissan dealers who will order it for approx. $300 with the form. Still, if f.e. this dealer actually does not have the SD card, what to do then? Guess there's no sense in ordering an SD card for a car you may or may not buy, or is there another way around it?

Once again, thank you very much.

@LeftieBiker: Thank you for your reply. Of course that is correct, not everyone needs a CHAdeMO quick charge port. At the same time, I can answer my own question from above:

1) is there any way to see, by looking at pictures, if the charge has Quick Charge (and subsequently 6.6kw onboard charger) or not?
So far, I'd say, there's no way to see if a car has QC, besides looking at the charge port itself.

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For 2013 Nissan Leaf SV: Yes, there is a way to see it, besides looking at the charge port itself, because the LED & Quick Charge Option for the SV also includes the fog lights. Otherwise, a 2013 Nissan Leaf SV would have no fog lights. So just by looking at a picture of the front of the vehicle, one is able to tell, if the SV indeed does have the LED & Quick Charge option, or not. It's pretty helpful.

And a little off-topic, about having no QC in the region: Doesn't Ithaca, NY qualify as "upstate"? What about the CHAdeMO coming to Diane's Auto there? Or the four travel plazas on I-87, and the dual CCS/CHAdeMO chargers being installed there? Isn't Vermont also close to upstate New York, f.e. the CHAdeMOs in Rutland, Middlebury or a town where a presidential candidate announced? Just kidding. There are obviously fewer CHAdeMOs within reach in upstate New York than in California or other places. Maybe it's going to change slowly though. While of course the usage pattern of some Leafs might not even require any QC...

Thank you very much for your reply. Just in order to reply shortly:

cwerdna said:

In my area, the DC FCs are either not in convienient locations and/or a ripoff to charge at.

http://www.nrgevgo.com/san-francisco-bay-area/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; [...] 59 cents/kWh to DC FC!

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Sure, I've heard other electric car drivers refer to nrg EVgo as "evil", probably because of their quick charge prices. At the same time, to me, it seems like a good investment to sign up for the $14.95 monthly plan, and then have the possibility to not only charge at the free CHAdeMOs that one can use anyway, but also on the nrg EVgo ones for $0.10/min. Seems to me like if one used an nrg EVgo fast charge 2 times a month, one would already break even with that plan, and roughly save starting with the 3rd use. Sure, when normally the fuel savings with the Leaf are possibly, say, $150/month, then with the luxury of being signed up for the nrg EVgo plan and 3 times a month quick charging maybe it's only $130/month in fuel savings. Oh well. Still to me, it seems like there are a lot of nrg EVgo QCs around, and their number is only increasing, and it's nice to have more options. Of course, there might be other usage patterns with completely no need to QC...

Thank you for your reply. It is appreciated very much.

mjblazin said:

Why not just go for an SL where most of those questions are answered automatically?

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Apart from not needing leather and liking the idea of partially recycled cloth (those plastic bottles have to be good for something ), 2013 Nissan Leaf SV with LED&QC is currently available starting at $9,995 in Southern California. A 2013 Nissan Leaf SL starts at $13,995. So 40% more, for what? (Rhetorical question, I know, for all the extra content.) 1) For 17 inch alloy wheels with Michelin Energy Saver tires? 2) HomeLink® Universal Transceiver? 3) The cargo cover? 4) I do think the solar panel is nice, but I'd rather see one on every home, and the IOUs becoming state- or municipality-owned... Those 4 items + leather already seem to be all the difference there is between SV with LED&QC and SL, in case the Nissan spec list linked to above offers a complete comparison...

mjblazin said:

Value does exist if you want to parse the differences between various S and SV configurations. I don't know if risk vs. incremental cost benefit is worth it.

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Risk? Incremental cost? Can you rephrase that for a newbie? I'm sorry I am blonde... :?

AskingQuestions said:

cwerdna said:

In my area, the DC FCs are either not in convienient locations and/or a ripoff to charge at.

http://www.nrgevgo.com/san-francisco-bay-area/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; [...] 59 cents/kWh to DC FC!

Click to expand...

Sure, I've heard other electric car drivers refer to nrg EVgo as "evil", probably because of their quick charge prices. At the same time, to me, it seems like a good investment to sign up for the $14.95 monthly plan, and then have the possibility to not only charge at the free CHAdeMOs that one can use anyway, but also on the nrg EVgo ones for $0.10/min.

Click to expand...

I still don't know where you are, as you didn't update your location but, since you mentioned So Cal, there is http://www.nrgevgo.com/los-angeles-basin/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

I don't find paying $14.95/mo for 12 months a "good value". In my almost 2 years of leasing my Leaf, I've paid $0 for all public charging (and also $0 for charging @ work). There's only 1 NRG eVgo DC FC kinda near home. It used to be free.

BTW, the (VSP) noisemaker disable button was removed from '12 Leafs and beyond.

speedski97 said:

1 The sales staff are miss informed, you will be miss lead by them. do not ask any questions or accept any answer with out checking.

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Yep.

speedski97 said:

5 These cars are tight, no rattles or squeaks. If you note any on the test drive...run away.

Click to expand...

That was true when mine was new, but I do have an intermittent dashboard rattle when it's cold (only happens in cold temps in colder months, definitely not now).

I also have a slight rattle (possibly suspension) on the passenger side that I posted about: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=330071#p330071" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Oddly, it's gotten much softer, despite the last failed attempt to fix it.

And a little off-topic, about having no QC in the region: Doesn't Ithaca, NY qualify as "upstate"? What about the CHAdeMO coming to Diane's Auto there? Or the four travel plazas on I-87, and the dual CCS/CHAdeMO chargers being installed there? Isn't Vermont also close to upstate New York, f.e. the CHAdeMOs in Rutland, Middlebury or a town where a presidential candidate announced? Just kidding. There are obviously fewer CHAdeMOs within reach in upstate New York than in California or other places. Maybe it's going to change slowly though. While of course the usage pattern of some Leafs might not even require any QC...

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In order to be of any use, a QC station has to be within the range of the car. I live in the Capital District (Albany Metro area North to Saratoga Springs). Ithaca, where I spent many a happy day, is 180 miles from me. Rutland might be just barely in range - or not. The stations that are just now coming online on the Thruway are also at or beyond my range limits. In short, the "Capital District Region" still lacks QC.

@LeftieBiker: Oh, the wonderful Capital District Region. Lucky are the people who get to go to Saratoga Springs. Indeed, it seems like there's no CHAdeMO in that area or within range yet. Maybe that will change in the future. For now, there's at least the J1772 charger at Monolith Solar just across the bridge from the Rensselaer Amtrak station, so it's easily possible to hop onto a train to Penn Station. And in addition, the people at the downtown Albany Holiday Inn Express seemed friendly...

cwerdna said:

http://www.nrgevgo.com/los-angeles-basin/.

I don't find paying $14.95/mo for 12 months a "good value". In my almost 2 years of leasing my Leaf, I've paid $0 for all public charging (and also $0 for charging @ work). There's only 1 NRG eVgo DC FC kinda near home. It used to be free.

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That's understandable, for some to think it is not a good value. Some Nissan Leaf drivers never or rarely never use QC: Then of course it isn't necessary to pay for QC. Some Nissan Leaf drivers do use QC more frequently. Of those, some chose to not use nrg EVgo QC stations. And some do chose to use them, or for some of those, the $14.95/mo plan is a good investment. My personal use would fall into the category of using QC more often.
For Southern California specifically, it seems to me like nrg EVgo has a lot of QC stations already, and those also seem to be well taken care of. In case they are not working, some nrg EVgo employee is dealing with it within a short time, to make them operable again. And nrg EVgo is still working on opening new QC locations, in cooperation with some malls or retail chains. To me, that seems like a good thing. Still, the stations might cost tens of thousands to install, and then some to operate. Probably not every charging station can be sponsored by Nissan or somebody else, in order to be completely free to use for electric car drivers (or if it all of them had to be free always, then probably a lot less public charging stations would have popped up by now and less would be added going into the future). Having more quick chargers around (that you can use for a cheap by the minute price, when signing up for the $14.95 plan) also helps take away range anxiety, as it provides the certainty, if you quickly wanted to have a nearly full battery again, you could. Naturally, there are some who will only drive the car short distances, and will not even need a QC port. Still there are also others. Different usage patterns, different situations.
Of course everyone will join you in the joy, that within 2 years of leasing the Leaf, you only paid $0 for public charging. That's great.

cwerdna said:

I'm contemplating leasing a Fiat 500e instead of extending my Leaf lease for another year. The 500e (and many other BEVs) don't have DC FC capability. It's not that important for my use cases and my area.

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Yes, the Fiat 500e is indeed interesting, when leasing. While it doesn't have QC (which is not important in your use cases), it does indeed have the fast 6.6kw onboard charger. Lease deals also were amazing in April for the Chevrolet Spark EV, still now the lease offers are similar to the Fiat, and the Spark EV has an option for QC, still only 3.3kw onboard charger. So then, in my use case, the QC would be a must, because - see above - to wait 6+h to charge to full again is simply too long. At the same time, while these lease deals are relatively inexpensive, leasing is not what's adequate in my situation, which is why I am looking for an affordable 2013 Nissan Leaf to buy.

We have quite a few L-2 stations now - most of them coming online in the last year. Price Chopper Supermarkets (soon to be known, for some bizarre marketing reason as Market 32 or something like that) has been opening new stores with pairs of them, and other businesses and nonprofits are following suit. Clifton Park NY now has about 5 stations, scattered across just a couple of square miles. L-2 access is no longer a major issue here, although once you go North of Saratoga, it is still very much so.

I am aware of it, that this is a long post. Still I'll be very grateful for answers.

speedski97 said:

4 My 11SL was sent from Phoenix AZ. A 3 bar looser with 20k miles on the car. It had all bars when I bought it. lost them after I installed the SD card. now at 54k I still have 3 bars I am at 43.40 AH waiting for the bar to drop, not driving the car much. I thought I would have a new battery by now? So don't buy a 3 bar looser. The short range and a new to EV driver is not a good match.

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Thank you again for all of your practical car shopping tips.

This is helpful. To me, this means one should try to buy a car with as little battery capacity loss as possible. Because just like in your case, if the bar already lost a significant percentage of capacity, but still it above the threshold to get a new battery from Nissan, then one seems to be out of luck. Then one can either buy a new battery oneself for $6,000, or drive around with a car that will have a significantly shorter range, and only getting even shorter over time. So to me, that means I'll be looking for the 2013 SV Leaf with the least capacity loss.

I really do wish for you that before you hit the 60,000 miles driven, or 60 months, that you'll still get a new battery before then.

speedski97 said:

2 get leaf spy, Take leaf spy and check the battery to know what you are buying.

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So, in the meantime I researched LeafSpy in detail.
Of course it should be no problem to get
1) the LeafSky app on the phone and
2) an OBD2 CAN-BUS Bluetooth dongle running the ELM 1.5 software version.

What I gathered from all my reading, is that the following parameters from the app should be interesting:

1) First and foremost, AHr (Estimated Amp-Hours that can be stored in the battery at full charge - and in brackets, percentage of remaining battery capacity - both values do not depend on current state of charge). What I read is that a 2013 Nissan Leaf battery without capacity loss should have 66 AHr. So I assume that of course a used 2013 will have a few AHr less than that.
Question: Will this AHr capacity estimate also be correct, if the BatteryManagementSystem has been reset (f.e. showing all 12 capacity bars on the dash though it's already a 3 bar loser = only 9 capacity bars left)? This LeafSpy reading cannot be fooled, or can it?

2) QC count (how many times was the Quick Charge used with the car yet?) - the less, the better.
Question: Will this QC count still be correct, when the Battery Management System has been reset? Or will the QC count show zero, if it has been reset? Zero might seem fishy, because I assume the QC normally would be tested before the vehicle is delivered, so it should at least be 1.

3) What about the "Hlth (Battery health - measure of internal battery resistance)" reading? Obviously the higher percentage, the better it seems to be. What would be a value here, that is still acceptable? Or does it not matter so much, but rather the overall battery capacity? Once again, will this show wrong values if the Battery Management System has been reset?

4) Does it make sense to call the dealer ahead of any visit, and tell them to fully charge the car, in order to be able to know the amount of "Gids" in LeafSpy when fully charged? Once again, will the "Gids" reading in LeafSpy even work correctly when the SD card is out, or the long term data deleted? As I read, 1 gid = 0.08 kwh. I read that this equals to a maximum number of 281 "gids" = 22.48 kWh which leaves 1.52 kWh at the top of a 24 kWh Nissan Leaf battery charge to make the battery live longer. Still, as I understand, LeafSpy only shows the "gids" of the current battery charge, as well as the currently usable kWh remaining. So asking the dealer to charge it to full makes sense, so one can see how many kWh are usable, or how many gids are there? Or does it not make sense?

Once again, thank you for any answer to my questions.

Yes, being completely off-topic...

LeftieBiker said:

Price Chopper Supermarkets (soon to be known, for some bizarre marketing reason as Market 32 or something like that)

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Thank you for mentioning that. I didn't know. That will seem so unusual at first, Price Chopper has been around for so long. Guess it makes sense to renovate, adjust the product mix, and add more in-store dining options. Until one knows that the Golub family started its grocery business in 1932, the "Market 32" name comes across as very random though.

LeftieBiker said:

Clifton Park NY now has about 5 stations, scattered across just a couple of square miles.

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Even including a free ChargePoint at Chili's. Always thought the free L2 chargers at Chili's are very practical, and ChargePoint normally also really looks after them, that they stay operational.

And here are more questions...

speedski97 said:

a lot of used leafs with the SL/SV have the radio SD card removed, Imo this is to hide the long term data on the battery. the card is hard to get and only works on that car. The data for range is off with out it. It took a month to get the card and $400 . If the pic in the add has the back-up cam on the radio the card is likely missing. the lot answer is "we can get the card just not now it is at ......... we can get it for you!" NO, GET THE SD CARD BEFORE YOU TEST DRIVE! on the test drive.

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This SD card issue is what I have questions about. I contacted a dealer, and he had a 2013 SV with QC, but without the SD card. I asked, where the car came from, and he said, it came off of a lease, and then he bought it from another dealer. The dash shows 12 capacity bars, still I did not have LeafSpy yet. The dealer selling the car said frankly, he doesn't know much about electrics. I had to show him where the capacity bars are on the dash ("See, the thin bars next to the mile number, and the bottom two bars are red, and then there are 10 while ones above that.."). Still, even if he himself didn't take the SD card out and reset the long term battery data, because he doesn't know much about EVs anyway, it's possible the dealer he bought the car from did. I didn't research the VIN at Autocheck yet, but in case Autocheck was coming out clean/looking good, would there by any way to check with LeafSpy what the actual battery capacity is? Or if the dealer takes out the SD card, hides the long term battery data and thus makes all 12 capacity bars come on again on the dash, does that also confuse LeafSpy, and the app is going to show wrong data? If LeafSpy also was fooled by it, then the only way to test the real range would be a real test drive. If LeafSpy is able to detect the real battery capacity data, even with the SD card taken out and the long-term data hidden, then one could go by that first, and only in case that looks good, go ahead and get into the hassle of doing a test drive.

For me, it would be ok to get a SV without an SD card (in this case, the dealer didn't just not have it there right now, but he did not have it at all, the car would be sold without SD card), if the price is $2,000 lower than what it normally is. Then for me, it would be worth it, to go through the hassle and get the SD card with that special form for $400 from a different dealer that would be willing to order it and set it up. Only if one knew though, how the battery of that car actually is, though. So does LeafSpy always show the actual capacity, or when the dash shows 12 bars, LeafSpy also provides inaccurate data, f.e. when the car actually only has 9 bars?

speedski97 said:

try the fast charger and J1772 before you buy.
[...] I would drive about 40 miles to get a feel for range.

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That seems like a good idea, to make a test drive long enough to get a feel for the range. Maybe one can set the test drive route in a way that one is trying out the fast charger and J1772 on the way, that way killing two birds with one stone. If the dealer charged the car completely, maybe it's even possible to do a 55 mile test drive, before charging. And if the 2013 SV does have any problems doing at least the 55 real world miles (possibly mostly highway), then one knows the range is too short and basically the battery capacity went down too much already.
Again, it's a good reminder to check both the functuality of the CHAdeMO fast charge port and the J1772 charge port before buying. Thank you.

speedski97 said:

look at Tony William chart and check it for range,

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Everyone is very grateful for the work Tony did. At the same time, just going by my own experience, I feel like it's important to point out here for anybody reading this that the values in that chart are not real-world figures, but just calculations. Back then, I remember being disappointed when reading at 35mph you can nearly drive twice as far than at 65mph, and of course then that did not materialze. So to all of those who think "Oh, I just have to drive 35mph constantly and then I'll go 132 miles with a full battery", no, unless your some hypermiler, you won't. It's just a theoretical value. No matter if Tony Williams' chart says you will, or not. Guess it would be cool if there was a real-world range chart...

speedski97 said:

make sure it has the 110 AC cord in the trunk ( not just the bag) drop $600 off the price if missing.

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That's important as well. Thank you for pointing that out. I would indeed need that cable. So it needs to be there. Or they have to lower the price, so I can buy a cable myself.

speedski97 said:

These cars are tight, no rattles or squeaks. If you note any on the test drive...run away.

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Thanks again for that tip. What we all love about the Nissan Leaf is, that they are so quiet. While in a car with a combustion engine I might easily overhear a sound that normally should not be there, with an electric as there's next to no noise from the engine, I should have a better time of noticing if there's something that doesn't seem like regular road noise...

Both myself and another new Leaf buyer raised the question of BMS reset in our threads, I think the consensus is that BMS reset will not affect the raw AHr reading LeafSpy indicates.

I agree with everyone else that having the SD card in is very important, I purchased mine as a Nissan certified pre-owned and when I first went to look at the car it doesn't have the SD card, what they said was it's purchased at a lease return auction and all SD cards were removed. Being one of the larger Nissan dealers in Seattle they immediately ordered replacement card from corporate, and I didn't take delivery of the vehicle until they had the card in the card, and then verified the AHr reading. At that time LeafSpy showed the whole charging history (17 QC, 839 L1/2), so at least we know replacing the SD card will not hide charging history from LeafSpy.

Thank you for your reply. That's very helpful to know.

I think I already found one of the two threads about the BMS reset.

hmmwv said:

I agree with everyone else that having the SD card in is very important, I purchased mine as a Nissan certified pre-owned and when I first went to look at the car it doesn't have the SD card, what they said was it's purchased at a lease return auction and all SD cards were removed. Being one of the larger Nissan dealers in Seattle they immediately ordered replacement card from corporate, and I didn't take delivery of the vehicle until they had the card in the card, and then verified the AHr reading. At that time LeafSpy showed the whole charging history (17 QC, 839 L1/2), so at least we know replacing the SD card will not hide charging history from LeafSpy.

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The questions I'd ask now (hence the user name ) are:
1) It is indeed possible to already use LeafSpy and get the AHr reading, even when the SD card is not in the car's SD card slot (display showing blue "No SD card" screen)? Writing "verified the AHr reading", does that mean the AHr was read once with LeafSpy without the SD in the car, and once with the SD inserted? If yes, were the two values shown the same, or different ones?
2) How long did it take for the replacement card to arrive from corporate?

The reason why I ask is, there are several dealers who sell Leafs without the SD card. Sometimes also independent dealers, no Nissan dealerships. The Leafs on sale without SD card are offered significantly cheaper than the ones with SD card. Without being able to use LeafSpy, even without SD card in the car, and without LeafSpy delivering the correct data without any SD card in the car, the only way to find out the car's range would be to make a test drive and pretty much drive it to empty. Of course it would be way better in case LeafSpy would work, even without the SD card (if it doesn't show number of QCs, that doesn't matter as much, but AHr number seems essential). If one could save several thousands by getting a Leaf without SD card, only having to buy a new SD card for $400 oneselves afterwards, then the savings could still be significant.