New owner of '13 SL battery condition question

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hmmwv

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
100
Location
Seattle, WA
I'm a long time lurker of this forum and finally decided to join after purchasing a certified pre owned 2013 Leaf SL this past weekend.

Before signing the paperwork I plugged in my ELM327 reader and checked its battery condition on LeafSpy, and it reads 67.63AHr and 100% SOH. This car has over 18,600 miles with 17 QC and 839 normal charge history. While I'm delighted to find its battery is in such good condition, I can't help to wonder if that's accurate. I mean that AHr reading is higher than even some brand new ones, when it's been used for over two years. Are we certain LeafSpy readouts are reliable? BTW this vehicle was a Bellevue, WA lease return.

I also find the EVSE is in pretty poor shape, there are some scuff marks and half of the cable is all twisted as if it's always wrapped around the EVSE unit itself for prolonged period of time. This is really annoying as it's hard to untangle it, is there a way to straighten out the cable?

Thanks in advance and I'm glad to join the EV club!
 
hmmwv said:
I'm a long time lurker of this forum and finally decided to join after purchasing a certified pre owned 2013 Leaf SL this past weekend.

Before signing the paperwork I plugged in my ELM327 reader and checked its battery condition on LeafSpy, and it reads 67.63AHr and 100% SOH. This car has over 18,600 miles with 17 QC and 839 normal charge history. While I'm delighted to find its battery is in such good condition, I can't help to wonder if that's accurate. I mean that AHr reading is higher than even some brand new ones, when it's been used for over two years. Are we certain LeafSpy readouts are reliable? BTW this vehicle was a Bellevue, WA lease return.

I also find the EVSE is in pretty poor shape, there are some scuff marks and half of the cable is all twisted as if it's always wrapped around the EVSE unit itself for prolonged period of time. This is really annoying as it's hard to untangle it, is there a way to straighten out the cable?

Thanks in advance and I'm glad to join the EV club!
Click to expand...

Welcome to the club! It does sound high, but for what its worth my 2013 Leaf with very similar mileage reads as follows:

283 gids, 100.9 health, 65.88, 99.43 capacity

I have never stored it at 100% charge for long period of time, specially in heat.
 
The key thing here...which I believe both of you share...is that these are both owned/operated in a "cool" Northern climate. If we've learned anything, we've learned that heat is the biggest (Leaf) battery killer--and probably will continue to be, albeit at a (hopefully) slower rate starting in 2015.
 
Thanks for the comments guys, it sounds like the previous owner really took care of the battery, hopefully I'll continue the trend. I have already set it to only charge to 80%, I wish it can be done on the Carwings app too.

I drove it on Sunday starting with 80% battery, AC and stereo on, for 48 miles on mixed highway (55-65mphm 2/3 the trip) and suburban road (35-40mph, 1/3 the trip) in 85 degree temperature, got home with 22 miles indicated range left and 25% battery capacity. I'm pretty happy with it.
 
Take the opportunity, at least a couple of times a month, to charge to 100%. Use the car shortly afterwards, and try to do it when the pack is cool. This will keep it equalized without harming the pack.
 
I'm positive you got a really good deal. Congratulations. However, the previous owner might not have taken care of it. One of our locals leased a 2013 and recently returned it. I verified the nearly 100% battery with LeafSpy last year. He never treated it nice, always filling it up to 100% when ever he got home, and driving it like a regular car. He wanted to keep it, but needed more range and some DCQCs over here in eastern WA state. Also, we're pretty hot here, it's been between 95 and 105 F for the past two weeks, and summer hasn't started. I've always wondered if Nissan secretly began testing a slightly larger battery (perhaps the rumored 30 KWh version) with the new heat-resistant chemistry all the way back in 2013, hiding the extra capacity, and releasing it slowly as the battery degraded down from 30 KWh down to 24 KWh. Who knows, pure conjecture on my part, but perhaps they learned a lesson or two from the Volt.
 
Reddy said:
I'm positive you got a really good deal. Congratulations. However, the previous owner might not have taken care of it. One of our locals leased a 2013 and recently returned it. I verified the nearly 100% battery with LeafSpy last year. He never treated it nice, always filling it up to 100% when ever he got home, and driving it like a regular car. He wanted to keep it, but needed more range and some DCQCs over here in eastern WA state. Also, we're pretty hot here, it's been between 95 and 105 F for the past two weeks, and summer hasn't started. I've always wondered if Nissan secretly began testing a slightly larger battery (perhaps the rumored 30 KWh version) with the new heat-resistant chemistry all the way back in 2013, hiding the extra capacity, and releasing it slowly as the battery degraded down from 30 KWh down to 24 KWh. Who knows, pure conjecture on my part, but perhaps they learned a lesson or two from the Volt.
Click to expand...

I think I'm lucky, but not THAT lucky. :D If Nissan is indeed testing a larger battery unannounced then I'm sure more people would have reported that, after all you do need a sizable sample to accurately gauge results. The only remotely plausible possibility is that Nissan may be testing the Lizard chemistry in some 2013 packs. However the chance of that is so small that I'm leaning towards that I just got one that came with more capacity than designed and the previous owner took really good care of it.

I really hear you about the lack of DCQC in eastern Washington, I planned to visit some friends in Yakima but the lack of charging options means I have to use my ICE car. AV's electric highway network is really pitiful in WA. I really envy my fellow Oregonians.
 
The only remotely plausible possibility is that Nissan may be testing the Lizard chemistry in some 2013 packs. However the chance of that is so small that I'm leaning towards that I just got one that came with more capacity than designed and the previous owner took really good care of it.
Click to expand...

When Nissan moved battery production to Tennessee for the 2013 MY, they knew about the issues with the first gen packs, and had a perfect opportunity to improve on them without retooling existing production lines in Japan. I don't see why they wouldn't do so, at least to some extent. Since I drive a 2013, I certainly hope so...

EDIT: if they did do this, and want to do something about the resale value of the newer Leafs, it would be wise of them to let us know, now. More people would then opt to buy their cars off lease, and 2013+ MY resale value would increase.
 
hmmwv said:
I really hear you about the lack of DCQC in eastern Washington, I planned to visit some friends in Yakima but the lack of charging options means I have to use my ICE car. AV's electric highway network is really pitiful in WA. I really envy my fellow Oregonians.
Click to expand...
Ha! You should try another 85 miles into the Tri-Cities. :eek: Yakima to Seattle is "easy" by comparison. See my signature.
 
LeftieBiker said:
When Nissan moved battery production to Tennessee for the 2013 MY, they knew about the issues with the first gen packs, and had a perfect opportunity to improve on them without retooling existing production lines in Japan. I don't see why they wouldn't do so, at least to some extent. Since I drive a 2013, I certainly hope so...

EDIT: if they did do this, and want to do something about the resale value of the newer Leafs, it would be wise of them to let us know, now. More people would then opt to buy their cars off lease, and 2013+ MY resale value would increase.
Click to expand...

I hope that's the case too but I wouldn't keep my hopes high at all. Also I think Nissan is unlikely to acknowledge that because they are experimenting on paying customers without their consent, they may be in some legal trouble regardless of the experiment's outcomes (in this case, positive).
 
Just an update, I have owned my Leaf for slightly over a month now, and I have observed rapid battery degradation according to LeafSpy. When I bought the car it has 67.13AHr and now down to 65.55AHr. I have always limited charging to 80% except a single road trip, and put on about 1300 miles on it. I have done 4 QC and about 70 L1/L2 charges. The car has always stayed in WA but we had very high temperature over the past month (upper 80s low 90s during the day). My car is parked outside but mostly under shade so temperature varies between low 70s (morning) and mid 80s (early afternoon). It's garaged at my house after 5pm.

Since I had unusually high capacity started with I think this is probably the "normal" capacity it should have at this day and age, but I sure hope it doesn't deteriorate at this pace for much longer. My guess would be this sunny stretch (over a month now) is the main factor.
 
It is very likely the temperature increase. Start recording your battery temp when you do a trip log. You will see a strong negative correlation of temp to AHr.
 
The other harmless factor to consider is the lack of full equalization charging. Try charging it to 100% a few times (without letting it sit there for hours afterwards), and then measure it again.
 
LeftieBiker said:
The other harmless factor to consider is the lack of full equalization charging. Try charging it to 100% a few times (without letting it set there for hours afterwards), and then measure it again.
Click to expand...

Aha, you are right, I charged it to 100% for a couple of times over the past three days and the AHr has returned a little bit to 65.87AHr. I guess keeping it at 80% prevents the cells to be charged evenly.
 
I'm glad it was only that. I charge to 80% almost all the time, and when I do charge to full, I notice that the first 1% of battery charge, which tends to vanish within a mile of my leaving home, stays there significantly longer.
 
Digging this post up, it's been six months since I bought my Leaf, I have been tracking the battery condition. After 6 month and 5,500 miles later my current battery capacity is at 66.14 AHr, during the past six months it fluctuated a little bit but generally it's down from the all time high of 67 AHr when I first bought the car. I'm glad this crazily hot summer didn't affect the battery much.
 
hmmwv said:
Digging this post up, it's been six months since I bought my Leaf, I have been tracking the battery condition. After 6 month and 5,500 miles later my current battery capacity is at 66.14 AHr, during the past six months it fluctuated a little bit but generally it's down from the all time high of 67 AHr when I first bought the car. I'm glad this crazily hot summer didn't affect the battery much.
Click to expand...

Thanks for reporting again. Keep adding to it! As a new owner myself, i find it fascinating.
 

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