Leaf on the HIghway

Hi All,

I am one month new to the Leaf and absolutely love it! I feel like I'm not paying "The Man" anymore in regards to gas prices and it literally couldn't be better!

I do have a question. I drive 50 miles round trip to work daily. When I leave my house I typically have 80 miles range on my Leaf. My commute is 50% side streets and 50% highway. I have cut it close a couple of times. I do get concerned sometimes especially since the weather is nice and I live in the Chicago area and I heard that in dead summer and winter you lose 10% capacity. Am I doing something wrong with charging? Does anyone have any advice that will help expand my range? I drive in regenerative braking mode, and I drive in ECO mode the entire trip. I usually have 2 trees of efficiency during my commute each way. I know for sure I am definitely not reaching the 80 miles range it is saying that I have everyday.

Steve

Quick question:
What do you mean by:

LeafAlpha said:

I have cut it close a couple of times.

Click to expand...

You mean the LBW (Low Batter Warning) or ???

desiv

Hey Desiv,

Yes I have seen the low battery warning three times since I've had it, which to me means I may run out of juice one day!

There are many threads that talk about this scattered across the forum. VLBW is when you need to be very concerned. Try reducing your speed when driving on the highway. Unless I am in a hurry to get somewhere, or know that I have plenty of range available, I go 55 instead of 65 on the freeway. It does help. I read in another thread that the optimum speed for the Leafs aerodynamic profile is 38mph.

Which year, model of Leaf do you have?
Do you charge to 80% or 100% each night?
Are you Level1 or Level2 charging?

LeafAlpha said:

Yes I have seen the low battery warning three times since I've had it, which to me means I may run out of juice one day!

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Well, possibly, but LBW also means you have miles of range left. Possibly around 20, which if you consider the "range" of the Leaf to be 80, could be up to 25% left..
(And if your "FULL" to start wasn't close to 100% (I virtually never get above 95%, usually 93% from home. Less from a public charger), then that's even less of the "80 mile range" you might get.)
I like to think of LBW more as the 1/4 of a tank spot on a fuel gauge. ;-)

This chart has some good info:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=4295" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What people will tell you is you should drive below that a few times to get comfortable with it and get a feel for how much you can drive. (Depending on speed/heater/etc, it could be much less than 20, but it's still significant (it won't be only 2 or 3 miles. ;-) ).

I have a 60 mile 1 way commute (I know, I'm crazy) and routinely get the LBW. Sometimes I get the VLBW, which I take more seriously and is a sign to me I better be heading to a charge point. But even VLBW is usally several miles..
How much? I don't know exactly..
I've never passed VLBW to Turtle. Not willing to go that far. ;-)

Do you have a meter that shows "actual" percentage of battery charge (2013 or newer Leaf or LeafSpy)?
Getting that (LeafSpy in my case) helped me get much more comfortable with my actual range.

desiv

Sorry ladies and gents should have stated at the start:

2015 Nissan Leaf Model S
I try to charge to 100% every night. The most I have seen range wise when I start is below:

100% Charge
110 Range

I Just get the charge sign that looks like a gas station, but its an electric station meter. I have heard about the turtle and totally want to see it, but have yet to see it.

I notice too that when I turn the heat on when I'm low miles my range only goes down 1%. When I'm fully charge it can drop as much as 20%. I feel like I have to re-take calc to understand the math behind this car!

LeafAlpha said:

... When I'm fully charge it can drop as much as 20%. I feel like I have to re-take calc to understand the math behind this car!

Click to expand...

It is LEAF EV math.
The LEAF built in instrumentation does not tell you the whole stoty.
Get LEAF Spy Pro to understand the whole story.

What is Leaf Spy Pro?

LeafAlpha said:

What is Leaf Spy Pro?

Click to expand...

(Can I get this in before the replies telling you to "search, there are threads on this"?)

It is an app for Android (and iPhone in testing) that works with an ODB2 adapter so you can get LOTS of information about your car in real time.

desiv

And now available using a WiFi adapter for iOS.

LeafAlpha said:

Sorry ladies and gents should have stated at the start:

2015 Nissan Leaf Model S
I try to charge to 100% every night. The most I have seen range wise when I start is below:

100% Charge
110 Range

I Just get the charge sign that looks like a gas station, but its an electric station meter. I have heard about the turtle and totally want to see it, but have yet to see it.

I notice too that when I turn the heat on when I'm low miles my range only goes down 1%. When I'm fully charge it can drop as much as 20%. I feel like I have to re-take calc to understand the math behind this car!

Click to expand...

That drop in range sounds about right. The cost-value trade-off of your Model S is the resistance heat (only). It's an energy hog. The more expensive SL/SV's have a heat pump which uses much less energy for HVAC in moderate temps (above freezing). Having 240v L2 charging at home will also help, leave it plugged in and pre-heat the car while still plugged in. If not, expect to use at least 5% battery at the beginning of each leg of your commute.

My own commute is 74 miles round trip which takes the LEAF from 100% to slightly into LBW with very conservative driving habits. Anything below freezing I don't drive the LEAF as it can't make the range and public charging opportunities are possible but very inconvenient on my commute in the Cleveland area. Reaching LBW on your 50 mile commute in Chicago traffic with the speeds & driving habits I've observed in the area is likely normal.

A driving tip...toggle your center gauge to the battery % indicator and leave it there. Then understand that at lower speeds that the LEAF is good for roughly 1 mile on 1% of the battery capacity. So in theory your 50 miles could use as little as 50%. Use this to judge the time-cost relationship of running those expressway speeds and to benchmark % battery usage at several milestones on your commute. This will help to budget your battery usage. Always remember a successful trip is one that is completed with the battery capacity available.

LeafAlpha said:

...I do have a question. I drive 50 miles round trip to work daily. When I leave my house I typically have 80 miles range on my Leaf. My commute is 50% side streets and 50% highway. I have cut it close a couple of times. I do get concerned sometimes especially since the weather is nice and I live in the Chicago area and I heard that in dead summer and winter you lose 10% capacity. Am I doing something wrong with charging? Does anyone have any advice that will help expand my range? I drive in regenerative braking mode, and I drive in ECO mode the entire trip. I usually have 2 trees of efficiency during my commute each way. I know for sure I am definitely not reaching the 80 miles range it is saying that I have everyday.

Steve

Click to expand...

I don't think the others mentioned this above, but you will lose way more than 10% range in winter versus that in mild weather. Fifty miles might not be possible in very cold or snowy weather, even with the heater off. You would need to line up some charging options if you plan to do that commute in very cold or stormy weather.

As for "not reaching the 80 miles range it is saying that I have everyday", we call that range estimate the "Guess-o-meter" (GOM) here because it is very unreliable. It bases the range on how efficiently you have been driving the last few miles but it can't know how fast you will be going in the future, or what sort of wind or other weather you will be facing. It is likely that you were driving slowly when you got home so the GOM reading the next morning will be higher than your actual range at higher speeds. In short, that number is not useful and should be ignored.

You have a % State of Charge meter on your dash. Use that to determine your range. Learn what percent of charge it takes to make various legs of your trip at differing speeds. Learn the percent at which you hit Low Battery Warning (LBW) [a warning light comes on and the GOM number starts flashing] and Very Low Battery Warning (VLBW) [The GOM number goes to flashing ---]. That %SOC meter is your fuel gauge. Forget the silly GOM numbers.

Thanks desiv! I appreciate all your help and information with my new Leaf!

dgpcolorado said:

I don't think the others mentioned this above, but you will lose way more than 10% range in winter versus that in mild weather. Fifty miles might not be possible in very cold or snowy weather, even with the heater off. You would need to line up some charging options if you plan to do that commute in very cold or stormy weather.

Click to expand...

On a 12 bar Leaf, that really depends on "very cold".
I mean, it can depend on driving style, conditions, mountains, etc..
But my 2012 Leaf with 12 bars can still do 60 miles in the Oregon winter with intermittent heater use.
Now, this winter in Oregon hasn't been too bad, but I did have some (not many) days in the 20's.
That did make 60 miles tough and I had to use almost no heater (just for defrost) and drive slower (but it's mostly highway, so that slower is still around 55).
But it was still within range, barely. So I would think 50 should be good if the car has full bars.
If it's a newer Leaf with a Heat pump, that should help on the cooler days, but as I understand it, really cold days, the Heat Pump doesn't actually help..

What I've found that can hit my range too is weather.. Wind / Rain.
Especially when we get the bad rain (this is Oregon! ) and there are the ruts in the road filled with water. Those make the car work much harder. I have to try to avoid those while driving...

All of that is something you have to consider..

However, as the battery degrades, you'll get closer and closer.
Charging at work (or where you can during the day) will become nice or even required.

You might get to a point where you want to charge during the day, not because you "can't" make it, but because it allows you to use the heater and drive faster, etc without worrying. ;-)

desiv

desiv said:

On a 12 bar Leaf, that really depends on "very cold".
I mean, it can depend on driving style, conditions, mountains, etc..
But my 2012 Leaf with 12 bars can still do 60 miles in the Oregon winter with intermittent heater use.
Now, this winter in Oregon hasn't been too bad, but I did have some (not many) days in the 20's.
That did make 60 miles tough and I had to use almost no heater (just for defrost) and drive slower (but it's mostly highway, so that slower is still around 55).
But it was still within range, barely. So I would think 50 should be good if the car has full bars.
If it's a newer Leaf with a Heat pump, that should help on the cooler days, but as I understand it, really cold days, the Heat Pump doesn't actually help..

What I've found that can hit my range too is weather.. Wind / Rain.
Especially when we get the bad rain (this is Oregon! ) and there are the ruts in the road filled with water. Those make the car work much harder. I have to try to avoid those while driving...

All of that is something you have to consider..

However, as the battery degrades, you'll get closer and closer.
Charging at work (or where you can during the day) will become nice or even required.

You might get to a point where you want to charge during the day, not because you "can't" make it, but because it allows you to use the heater and drive faster, etc without worrying. ;-)

desiv

Click to expand...

The OP is in the Chicago area and that's what I was thinking about with my comments on reduced winter range. I didn't mention hills because Chicago is flat, but it does have very cold temperatures, wind, snow and other conditions that will hammer range in winter. That is very different from coastal Oregon.

10ºF, strong headwinds, and snow? The Chicago area LEAFers can weigh-in on whether fifty miles, half highway, is practical under those conditions (without interim charging). Regardless, the winter range decrease will be substantially more than "10%". It's a fact of life for those of us in four season climates.

My quick (and condensed) 3¢:

1. For extending range, drive a little slower and learn how to coast (in neutral, if you are a 'good driver' and/or it is legal in IL) using gentle/regenerative breaking only when stopping. But also look for other threads for long lists of suggestions.
2. Low battery warning = 15-20 miles remaining; Very low battery (--- on the GOM) = 5-10, and last capacity bar disappears = 1kWh = 3-5; and only then turtle = roughly half a mile at low speed, I believe. I learned that "1kWh remaining" warning here on MNL, and like it the most.
3. Find a way to charge at work, and that will solve all your problems -- even using 110V or "Level 1". Offer to pay ($1-2/day?), run your own extension cord, etc. 240V/Level 2 would be all the better. You might need at least level 1 to make it through a Chicago winter, especially in a few years when you start losing battery capacity.

Good luck!

dgpcolorado said:

The OP is in the Chicago area and that's what I was thinking about with my comments on reduced winter range. I didn't mention hills because Chicago is flat, but it does have very cold temperatures, wind, snow and other conditions that will hammer range in winter. That is very different from coastal Oregon.

10ºF, strong headwinds, and snow? The Chicago area LEAFers can weigh-in on whether fifty miles, half highway, is practical under those conditions (without interim charging). Regardless, the winter range decrease will be substantially more than "10%". It's a fact of life for those of us in four season climates.

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That's what I was thinking. His climate conditions are similar to Cleveland, the drop in range is very evident and substantial at temps below freezing when the resistance heat is needed. Any dampness in the air is even worse if need A/C to dehumidify with resistance heat to rewarm. Keeping a windshield hot enough at expressway speeds to melt snow takes a lot of energy. It's also not unique to the leaf, my CRV uses substantially more fuel in cold conditions and it gets cold enough to where the heat output struggles to keep up.

Got an early morning laugh this past Feb. when the overnight temps went to -22F. I have a 1-car garage and knew it was going to be bad that night so parked the leaf outside and the CRV inside to ensure it would run in the morning. When I put the leaf back inside in the morning the battery was at ~65%, GOM was reading like 29 miles after running the heat/defrost for @ 10 min.

You will also want to block the air intake grille in the front of the car every Fall, to lower heat loss in frigid and even plain cold weather. The grille is generally only needed for A/C use.

LeftieBiker said:

You will also want to block the air intake grille in the front of the car every Fall, to lower heat loss in frigid and even plain cold weather. The grille is generally only needed for A/C use.

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That's a first for me. Never heard of this for cold weather. Thanx !! I'll pass it on.