Please help an ignorant person -- me!-question about 2012 SV

Hello everyone,

Currently own a 2005 Prius. Always been a huge fan of e-cars.

So there is near my house a dealership (not a Nissan one) that has a 2012 Nissan Leaf. They say it is a 2012 SV (though I'm not sure THEY even know. I seemed to know more about the car than they did). As I understand it, the SV isn't the top of the line version, right? That's the SL.

Does this car have regular charger that is the 6.6 kWH version or the 3.3 kWh variety?

Does this one have the quick charge port? It looks to me like it does...the one on the left, correct?

The car has the solar panel, fog lights, heated seats and steering wheel.

My wife and I really liked it. It's a former lease. I checked, and it's never been wrecked. 15K miles and they want $13K for it. Sound good?

Thanks so much!

3.3 L2 for 2012 and yes the larger connector is L3 charging.

You don't say where you are.

Yes that is a DCQC port but I don't believe the 6.6kw OBC was there for 2012 so it likely is a 3.3....

The key on a used Leaf is the battery condition. Quick way to check is to see how many bars (small ones on the right of the charge bars) there are but this may be misleading too if system was reset recently. Look up "leafspy" and get it along with an inexpensive OBCII adapter and see what it has to say ($30 total outlay is a small expense eh?). With only 15K miles on the car I would not expect it to be too bad, but it could have been stored/used in a very hot environment damaging the batteries.

As to your price quote, that is a matter of opinion I'm sure. Where are you living? With state/federal rebates you could drive a new vehicle for $15K or less net all rebates/incentives (but that would be the base model with QC, not the top end if the bells and whistles matter to you). For example, the solar panel on car is a gimmic, the fog lights you have to make your own valuation on (I personally don't care about them), heated seats/steering wheel are awesome (IMO) and standard on new Leafs. If you don't care about the solar panel and fog lights and live somewhere with good state rebates you may be better off buying new for $1-2K more (new, better designed battery has significant value IMO).

You need to check the car's battery capacity. First, look at the capacity "bars" on the "fuel" gauge. They are the *short* ones, with the longer ones being fuel bars that change constantly with state of charge. If you have 12 capacity bars then the pack is at least in decent shape, although it may actually have just over 11 bars in reality. If there are 11 bars or less, the pack is degraded and you need to decide how much range you need, as it will be less than it was originally. It's also a great idea to access and read the pack with a Leaf battery app and code reader cable, especially if you have fewer than 12 bars. If you want a local commuter car, a used gen I Leaf can be great. If you want or need nearly as much range as a new Leaf, you have to get a new Leaf...

One post slipped in ahead. Yes, location is very important.

It sounds like an SL, with the solar panel. As others said, the 2011 & 2012 models only got a 3.3kW charger.
Please post your location and your intended use for the Leaf. Most 2012's are going to have some significant battery degradation by now, so I would either buy an OBDII Bluetooth dongle and get LeafSpy for your Android, or at least find another Leaf owner near you that has it, to check the battery State-of-Health.

I'm in Kansas City, MO. Not many e-vehicles out here! No additional rebates of any kind, just the $7.5K federal one for new vehicles.

We get very hot and very cold weather here.

Use? Mostly for my wife to drive back and forth to work every day (10 miles each way). Go on grocery runs around the house...

Another question: How long can I expect the LEAF battery to last before it ceases to function entirely?

As someone who's just had to replace several Prius batteries (the aftermarket Lithium Ion ones I used to replace the Nickel Metal Hydride one kept burning up), I'm wary of battery issues.

It looks like the LEAF battery is roughly $5K dollars...

If the battery for this LEAF is indeed degraded, should the car be avoided?

Thanks!

smkettner said:

3.3 L2 for 2012 and yes the larger connector is L3 charging.

Click to expand...

IIRC it has to be an SL, the chademo wasn't available on the SV.

coalesce99 said:

I'm in Kansas City, MO. Not many e-vehicles out here! No additional rebates of any kind, just the $7.5K federal one.

We get very hot and very cold weather here.

Use? Mostly for my wife to drive back and forth to work every day (10 miles each way). Go on grocery runs around the house...

Click to expand...

The fed rebate is only on new cars not used.

EVDRIVER said:

coalesce99 said:

I'm in Kansas City, MO. Not many e-vehicles out here! No additional rebates of any kind, just the $7.5K federal one.

We get very hot and very cold weather here.

Use? Mostly for my wife to drive back and forth to work every day (10 miles each way). Go on grocery runs around the house...

Click to expand...

The fed rebate is only on new cars not used.

Click to expand...

Right, I know that. Sorry, I wasn't clear in my post. I changed it.

coalesce99 said:

Another question: How long can I expect the LEAF battery to last before it ceases to function entirely?

As someone who's just had to replace several Prius batteries (the aftermarket Lithium Ion ones I used to replace the Nickel Metal Hydride one kept burning up), I'm wary of battery issues.

It looks like the LEAF battery is roughly $5K dollars...

Click to expand...

If you just do 10 mile runs the battery may never die.*

You'll lose capacity but a fresh battery is good for 35 miles in the worst of winter with the heater on, 50 miles in the worst of winter with the heater off, up to 85 miles with good conditions and 100+ miles on ideal hypermiling.

So say you buy the used leaf and it has a 80% capacity, just shrink all those numbers a bit and 10 miles still isn't a concern.

Say 5 years out the battery is at 50% capacity, you'll still be able to go 10 miles though a 50% capacity battery could be troublesome in the worst of winter with the heat on.

You won't have to buy a new pack until the day you or your wife is fed up with the range limitation. That could be when you can't do 25 miles on a charge in many years down the road or it could be next year if she all the sudden decides she needs to be able to drive 80 miles on a charge.

But the battery itself won't force the issue, the driver will.

*As in I've read tons of people with a bad HV battery on a Prius**. I've never heard of the same for the Leaf. I'm sure it can happen I'm just saying with the existing threads I haven't noticed a trend of battery pack replacements due to being unable to drive at all.

** The Prius battery pack is so small the system babies it keeping it between 40% and 80% charge and considers it a bad battery if it can't keep up a certain power level. The Leaf battery pack is large by comparison and is allowed to go more like 6% to 97% or some such larger range*** so degradation can continue much further and still be usable by the Leaf.

*** Normal users will be confused by the percentages discussed in this post. The Leaf presents data on the dash/mfd from 0-100% but that is on a smaller scale, the batteries true SOC 0-100 would leave a guard band of some percent at the top and bottom not shown to the dash/mfd. Comparing from Leaf to another car brand battery management requires going outside the normal scale.

How fast does your wife drive? :lol: As others have said, with your wife's usage and your semi-moderate climate, that Leaf should last MANY more years. The main enemy of the battery seems to be heat, followed by deep cycling IMO. I am in south Florida heat, with 33,000 miles and 25% degradation in my 2012, whereas a nearby 2012 owner with only 30,000 miles has already become a 4 bar loser (~34% loss). I believe the main difference was that I make a lot of shorter trips at slower speed, partially recharging sometimes twice a day, whereas his work commute was at 70 mph and required running the car down to low battery daily. At 75% capacity, my Leaf is still good for ~55 miles per day, even with air conditioning.
I would try to get them down to more like $11,000, as no one seems to be getting offered more than $10,000 for trade in.

How many miles, how many capacity bars, date of first sale that starts warranty?
Battery does have a 60/60 warranty to stay above 70% capacity.
Basically if you get down to 8 bars out of 12 before 60/60 you get a new battery.
Are the Summers hot there?

coalesce99 said:

Another question: How long can I expect the LEAF battery to last before it ceases to function entirely?

Click to expand...

Nobody really knows that, as no Leaf battery is that old. Yet.

http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Battery_Capacity_Loss#Battery_Aging_Model" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Battery life model suggest that Kansas City, MO Leafs will have 55.1% left after 10 years. Assume that when new, had a 70 mile ideal range. About half of that is the "no worry" range: heat on, don't hypermile and don't hit VLBW range., or 35 miles. I'd not bet on keeping the original battery past 10 years, as that would be about the point when the "no worry" range drops below 20 miles. L1 (120V) Workplace charging, only needed on the cold days, might extend that for years, and would allow for preheating... Nothing like a warm car on a cold day!

To sum up a bit: as long as the car has at least 11 capacity bars - NOT fuel bars, which vary with charge! - it should have enough range for your use for quite a few years. It's still a good idea to use Leaf Spy or other app to check actual capacity (the capacity bars aren't equal: the first one is really about twice as "big" as the next few) and health. At the very least, if you have less than 12 bars showing, make sure, by having a Nissan dealer check the VIN, that the car wasn't excluded from possible battery warranty coverage. If you think the dealer selling it may be Shady, keep in mind that they can temporarily make the battery pack look healthier by resetting the battery management system. This issue is popping up occasionally, and you want to make sure the car is sold with whatever capacity shows guaranteed for at least 30 days.

Here is a picture of the actual...screen? Odometer?




So it looks like it has 12 bars. Am I correct? So does that mean that at the very least the battery is in decent shape?

Though, it sounds like it could have been reset? Can I take it to the local nissan dealer to find out the actual batter capacity? Or do I need to get that bluetooth dongle thingy?

And is everyone pretty much agreed that $11K should be a good price for me to pay for the car? They're asking for $13K. It has 15K miles on it now, btw. The owners of the car lot have been driving it.

coalesce99 said:

So it looks like it has 12 bars. Am I correct? So does that mean that at the very least the battery is in decent shape?

Click to expand...

Most likely decent shape.
Yeah, someone might have reset it, but that's fairly low mileage, so probably (??) not..

It all really depends on your driving habits/range.
If it's really short trips, you'll be good for ages.
And if there are decent QC options around your area, even better.
(Even if you don't plan on using them, it's nice to have them)

In my opinion (which should bare very little weight.. ), the 2 main reasons to not get 12 model (and I did get the 12 and I'm happy with it for my situation) are that you REALLY want the heat pump and you'll really want the 6kW charger.
If there's not a lot of QCs around and you think you'll need a boost charge from time to time, the 6wW is much nicer. Figure adding something like 25 miles per hour on L2 rather than 12.

But if you're trips are well within range, you'll be fine with the regular heater and no 6kW.

Given the market in general (not sure about where you are), you might be able to negotiate the price.
Everyone is talking about the 200+ mile cars due out in 2 years or so... That could be a nice bargaining point. ;-)

Good luck

desiv

If the 58 miles will work for you it is probably a decent buy.
The 58 does seem low for 12 actual bars but the lot boys are probably driving it hard causing the computer to drop the estimate.
I would at least ask if the computer is reset. If they give an overnight test drive you could check time to charge and have some estimate of capacity loss.

12 capacity bars (the thin ones on the far right) means that the battery has <15% loss, but that's about all you can tell from it. If the computer has been reset, even a Nissan dealer probably can't tell, but judging from your location and the low mileage I would say the car is a safe bet if you can get them to haggle.
I have a 2012 also, and the 3.3kW charger limitation is really only a pain when I am either driving it a lot more than expected in one day, and need a quick top-off to get home, or when I get home with an exhausted battery and find that I really need to go back into town again. I can't really speak about not having a heatpump-type heater, as I rarely need heat down here.

12 bars showing, all right. If it were me I'd be trying to decide between getting it for a lower price, getting a guarantee that the 12 bars will last at least 30 days, or a mix of the two. I suggest you try for the price you want, and when they offer a bit higher, grudgingly accept - IF they add the 30 day capacity clause. Explain to them it will only matter if the BMS was reset, and watch their reaction for signs of guilt or alarm.

I don't remember if you wrote where you live (it helps to have it in your user ID or signature line!) but how cold, how often, it gets is the key to whether or not you'd want the heat pump. The most advantage is to be had in temps between about 45F and 25F, compared to the resistance heater this car has. Still, if you really only plan to drive it 20-30 miles, you should be fine even without the heat pump. That car actually has a slightly more efficient A/C unit than the heat pump-equipped models.