Wife looking at a Leaf

So significantly better half is looking at a Leaf, and after reading reviews, specs, posts on this forum I still have some questions.

I drive a Prius Plug-in as a daily driver, and have installed a Cripple Creek LCS-25 EVSE.

After 3 years, wife has finally learned to say, " I know this may affect your EV efficiency, but can we turn on the heat?" So i think with that in mind she can handle the technology in a Leaf.

- her commute is 31.7 mi each way, and her work does have level 2 evse available, and is aware of the lunchtime shuffle of EVs at the charging station

- any issues other than recharging time in using the lcs-25?

- enclosed garage stays at 60 - 70 year round.

- i know use of heat/ac will adversely affect range, as will age and care of traction battery; any guesses as to percentage of range reduction that can be expected when using climate controls?

Thanks!

What sort of speeds will she drive those 31 miles? In the winter in the Atlanta area unless she is driving <55mph she will likely need to take advantage of the work L2. During better weather she should be able to make the roundtrip just fine for the first 2-3 years.

The LCS-25 will work fine, it will just charge at 20 amps instead of the possible 27.5amp. So instead of 3-4 hours it will take 5-6 hours to charge from empty.

crewdog said:

... installed a Cripple Creek LCS-25 EVSE.

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That must be an old west version of the Clipper Creek LCS-25? :lol:

billg said:

That must be an old west version of the Clipper Creek LCS-25? :lol:

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sorry; must of been thinkin of that song from The Band; Dylan was on cover of AARP mag this month.....

CmdrThor said:

What sort of speeds will she drive those 31 miles? In the winter in the Atlanta area unless she is driving <55mph she will likely need to take advantage of the work L2. During better weather she should be able to make the roundtrip just fine for the first 2-3 years.

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about 20 mi on freeway ea way

I would think that with 'reasonable' care the 64 mile R/T (only charging at home) would not be to bad when the car is new. I can get that here on cold days (around freezing temps) even using the heat on my 2013. Days where temps are in single digits is another story but I expect that is rare for you there in GA

IF she is willing to charge every day at work (that in my opinion would be a pain with the shuffle etc) then the 32 miles each way with charge between is easily within reach even when the car is aged a few years.

It really may come down to driving style though - my wife and I get dramatically different power use for same route. She 'just drives' and doesn't think about the power consumption at all - in the summer she was doing a regular route that is 70 miles round trip with about 75% of it being highways. She would come home on VLBW quite often, but I don't think she ever turned off the AC or really slowed down... I think she actually wanted to run out of power to force me to 'make good' on my promise to rescue her if that happened.... edit to add - this is with her and 3 kids in the car as well...

Sounds like a good match, but make sure she's really good with the "worst case" of charging at work (or somewhere else along the way home if she can't even charge at work for some reason.

Especially new and in good weather, the car should be able to make the commute round trip.
But the faster she drives, the more heat, etc..

If she "plans" on having to charge at work, then it's not such a big deal.

My commute is 120 miles round trip and my Leaf is a 2012.
I wouldn't have done it, if I weren't OK with stopping on the way to work and on the way home.
Now, the last few days, in testing (only had the leaf a few months) I've driven straight in and straight home (charghing while at work). It's nice to now that I still don't "have to" stop....

But I built that stop into my plans.
So, even if I get to really like not stopping (which is lower risk, because I actually like the stop in the morning for some hot chocolate and a charge), when my battery degrades and I can no longer do it without stopping, I'm totally OK with that. It's part of the plan.

So, as long as she's really OK with charging at work (and I'd check for backups on plugshare just of the off chance the work chargers are unavailable), then it's a perfect match.
In fact, with work charging planned, she can use heat and drive faster.. ;-)

Enjoy!

desiv

crewdog said:

...
- her commute is 31.7 mi each way, and her work does have level 2 evse available, and is aware of the lunchtime shuffle of EVs at the charging station
...

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Depends on how zealous your wife is.

There is a three capacity bar loser who now has to use work placing charging and is real tired of it.
Is hoping the fourth bar will drop and the modified class action settlement will be put in place allowing him to Opt In.
He was so tired of doing work place charging, real annoying in cold rain, that he considered purchasing replacement battery.

I used some workplace charging the first year. Because it was free, not required for range.
It became tedious.

As I have stated many times for my 2011 LEAF with two missing capacity bars it is at best a 40 to 60 mile range vehicle, and in cold weather if you like heat it can be only 30 to 35 miles.

If your wife likes heat she will have to charge at work in cold weather even when the LEAF is brand new.
After a couple years capacity degradation she will need to charge at work most of the time.

For me with that situation a LEAF would be a bad idea.
But it depends on your wife.

Sounds like she's ready for a LEAF.

I have the Clipper Creek LCS-25 and it works perfectly with my 2015 LEAF S. I only have the 3.3kW charger so I don't notice any slower charging. I've read reports it works fine with cars with the 6kW charger, charging at around 4.5kW. There were some concerns that the predictive charging time doesn't work accurately with the LCS-25 and a 6kW charger. It expects either 3.3kW or 6kW inputs only. Other than that, no problems.

It may be worthwhile to focus on the SV or SL versions, which have the more efficient heat-pump heating system. This will significantly reduce the range impact of using heat, especially in relatively mild cold weather.

Nubo said:

It may be worthwhile to focus on the SV or SL versions, which have the more efficient heat-pump heating system. This will significantly reduce the range impact of using heat, especially in relatively mild cold weather.

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+1

I had to watch the energy use carefully during "winter" when using the heater in the 2011 (A/C was very efficient so no worries the rest of the year). The 2015 SL's heat pump uses no more energy heating than the A/C uses for cooling so I have relegated my heated vest and jacket to motorcycle use. You should definitely get an SV or SL 2013 or newer in a climate like Atlanta.

Gerry

I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here. The commute is just too far for a Leaf in Winter, because there will be times when workplace charging is, for one reason or another, unavailable. L-1 charging with the Nissan unit can work if it's done for at least 4 hours, but I still think it's a mistake to get a Leaf for this, unless she really, really wants an EV. The next gen Prius PHEV will have a 25 mile EV range (and maybe electric heat of some sort), and even the current model (if she could find another one) would get about 75MPG on that commute. The new Volt would also be great. The only reason I can see to not get a PHEV is a desire to burn no gasoline, like me. My housemate drives a PIP, and she really likes it, while at the same time hating my Leaf because of the range limitation. And she only has to commute 22 miles each way, with most of it at lower speeds...

billg said:

crewdog said:

... installed a Cripple Creek LCS-25 EVSE.

Click to expand...

That must be an old west version of the Clipper Creek LCS-25? :lol:

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Ironically, Clipper Creek is based in Auburn, CA, which is an "Old West" town (gold was discovered nearby in 1848).

There's so much pessimism on this thread. A lot of the feedback is from 2011/2012 owners with degraded batteries. Batteries improved since then.

I've managed 100 mile round trip commutes with L1 at work. Yesterday temps were in the mid 30s and we did a 60 mile commute, heat on, 70% highway, 65mph and we used 85% of the battery. This is on our 2 year old leaf with 26k miles with 100% battery capacity.

Assuming the L2 at work is 6kw output and you get the 6 kW charging leaf, you'll regain about 20 miles of range per hour.

We also shared 1 evse for a while. Wife plugged in after coming home from work. I plugged in before going to bed. Worked great!

The Prius has such a small battery that you can just plug into a 110v outlet as well if you want to charge simultaneously.

Your wife has a great use case to get a Leaf! Suggest 2015 model as they have an improved heat tolerant battery

Phatcat73 said:

There's so much pessimism on this thread. ...

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One person's pessimism is another person's realism
I acknowledged it could work.
Depends on the person.

Would be better if OP'S wife was in the discussion.
The OP'S statement about wife recognizing use of heat impacting range after several years does not seem to be a good positive situation for another LEAF :?

crewdog said:

So significantly better half is looking at a Leaf, and after reading reviews, specs, posts on this forum I still have some questions.

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I'm surprised no one has asked this yet, but to be painfully obvious:

Is she looking at a new or used Leaf?

All the answers in this thread assume a new Leaf and then extend into the first few years of use. Totally different ball game if she is looking at a used Leaf.

TimLee said:

Phatcat73 said:

There's so much pessimism on this thread. ...

Click to expand...

One person's pessimism is another person's realism
I acknowledged it could work.
Depends on the person.

Would be better if OP'S wife was in the discussion.
The OP'S statement about wife recognizing use of heat impacting range after several years does not seem to be a good positive situation for another LEAF :?

Click to expand...

I have to agree with Phatcat73. From my signature you can see I have a 2011 and a 2012 LEAF, so I get the disappointment with the battery performance over time. Unfortunately a lot of folks on this forum - with justification - feel that Nissan dropped the ball on promises of battery life for the first two model years, and you should take that into account when reading responses. And dhanson865 asks a great question: if you are looking at a used LEAF then the problems with the longevity of the first two model year's battery will be a concern. But I see you're from GA so assume you're looking at a new LEAF due to the great state tax incentives.

For a new LEAF the 31-mile one-way commute is absolutely fine, assuming charging at work. On most days she probably won't need to charge at work, but cold days ("very cold" by GA standards) will tax the range for sure, and besides she'll just prefer to have a fully charged pack at day end to give her more flexibility. Get a LEAF with the on-board 6.6 kW/H charger (the SV, the SL, or an S with a charging package) and the charging time needed while on L2 at work will be cut in half, which may be more convenient. Alternatively, if her work has some available outdoor 110/120V outlets she could just plug into those for the whole day and have enough charget to get home.

Wait for the 200 mile LEAF, Bolt, Ford, Model E. Just hold out 18 to 24 months.

If it were me I would get a lease on a Gen2 Volt this summer, then have my pick of 200 mile EVs in a few years. Even if the commute is doable (which I think it is year-round even after a couple years) things come up. Why drive on edge every day when you can drive the Volt, use basically no gas most days and never have to worry about heat or traffic or detours or lunch plans, etc.
FYI, my wife LOVES our Leaf (it's her daily driver). The commute is only 30 miles total so even when it's zero out (garage at 25F) we can blast the heat the whole time.

For a new LEAF the 31-mile one-way commute is absolutely fine, assuming charging at work.

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As others have also noted, if you have to

depend

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on charging at work in cold weather, you are ruining the fun of driving a Leaf. I've never run out of juice, drive a '13 SV, and talk the car up to people all the time. I do not, however, encourage them to adopt risks like relying on workplace charging with the present infrastructure. I also heartily agree that the woman who would be driving the car should be posting here; if she is naturally optimistic, and laid-back about range, she might do fine. If she has issues with riding in a PIP then I still think a Leaf would be a mistake, at least with that commute.

LeftieBiker said:

For a new LEAF the 31-mile one-way commute is absolutely fine, assuming charging at work.

Click to expand...

As others have also noted, if you have to

depend

Click to expand...

on charging at work in cold weather, you are ruining the fun of driving a Leaf. I've never run out of juice, drive a '13 SV, and talk the car up to people all the time. I do not, however, encourage them to adopt risks like relying on workplace charging with the present infrastructure. I also heartily agree that the woman who would be driving the car should be posting here; if she is naturally optimistic, and laid-back about range, she might do fine. If she has issues with riding in a PIP then I still think a Leaf would be a mistake, at least with that commute.

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I have to jump in here - while I don't know the long term battery degradation factor on new Leafs, my 2013 would have no problem making a 62mile r/t commute even when temps fall into the 20's. Sure, one would need to fully charge the car at night (vs leaving it to stop at 80%) but you could use heated seats and the heater a bit too.

I currently have about 7,800 miles on the car and leafspy reports 22kWh when fully charged (284 gids I believe). Sure, when it is really cold (single digits or below) and wife is driving with heater I see 3 miles/kWh. So that would give me bout 66 miles. Yes, one would have to be willing to run down to VLBW perhaps, but it could be done. I just don't see this being a very frequent condition there in GA and with available charging at work as a backup it is very doable - so charge on the very cold days, but 90+% of the time R/T without charging should work well...

If you maintain the ICE idea that you have to keep 25-50% of your fuel in reserve (i.e. refill gas between 1/4 and 1/2 full) then anxiety may be an issue. Once you trust you can get home and charge and are willing to use that last 15% of the energy (below LBW) you should be fine.