2011 versus 2012, 2013, 2014?

Hello all,

I am new and don't yet own a Leaf. I am seriously considering getting a 2011 because of the price $11,500.

My commute to work is 7 miles. In fact, I ride my bike twice a week. I just love the idea of owning a Leaf. Are there any great improvements/upgrades to the later years that I should know about?

Thank you all!

gringostar
Orange County, CA

2012 added heated seats and steering wheel, which really can help reduce heater usage (major power hog).

2013 added the S model at the low end with no cruise control and a dumbed down navigation/infotainment system. The higher models got a faster on-board charger, up to 6.6 kW (option on the S with the quick charge port). There is also more storage space due to the charger being moved from behind the seats and under the hood. The regen was made more efficient and works down to a lower speed, which supposedly helps city traffic range a bit (differing opinions as to whether the range is actually better). I think is also when they added a slide out extension to the sun visor (2011/2012 visors leave large annoying gaps in sub blockage). SV and SL models got a heat pump heater that greatly reduces the energy use when running the heater. Eco and B-mode regen were separated so you have independent control of increased regen braking, and softer throttle response.

I forget what minor tweaks showed up in 2014? At some point they put cruise control back into the S model.

Things to know about the 2011's out there:
1) Many will have pretty degraded batteries, so read up on all the vagaries here. Be very sober about whether your climate will result in a costly battery replacement out of warranty. Either make sure the car will get a battery replacement before the 5 years/60k mile warranty is out, or make sure you are in a very mild climate where it will be less of an issue.

2) 2011/2012 cannot turn off the heater when you turn on the fan. If the car decides to run the heater when you turn on the fan it will. 2013 and later got a button to just run the air without the heat.

3) Find out if all the needed battery checks have been done, or the battery warranty may be void (mixed opinions on this).

4) 2011 and 2012's have a few quirks, such as very reduced regen as the battery degrades. Hunt down old blog posts about earlier adopter's gripes.

5) You will drive this car more than for just commuting, so don't underestimate how much you will miss the heat pump or heated seater if you are in a cold climate.

All that said, I am pretty darn happy with my used 2011 SL. It suits my needs very well, and when it does not, we just take my wife's car, or my old truck. I probably should have waited for a few more months, as the prices have continued to drop faster than I expected, so i could have saved a few bills.

We own both a 2011 and a 2015. For us the big improvements are the heated seats and steering wheel, and the hybrid heater (heat pump). The heating improvements might not benefit you much. The 2015 might have better battery, time will tell. All other improvements are not of big importance to us.

I love my 2011, except for the battery degradation. Any shortcomings it had otherwise I've pretty much taken care of by thoughtful modding (see my SIG).

Find one that is well under 60,000 miles and still has the battery warranty with no B0133 notation against the VIN (a Nissan dealer service department can tell you this by looking in SERVICE COMM).

Moof said:

Things to know about the 2011's out there:
1) Many will have pretty degraded batteries, so read up on all the vagaries here. Be very sober about whether your climate will result in a costly battery replacement out of warranty.

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How can I tell if the batteries have degraded? Is there a digital gauge that will tell how long or how much the batteries have left?

gringostar said:

How can I tell if the batteries have degraded? Is there a digital gauge that will tell how long or how much the batteries have left?

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The easiest way (assuming it has missing capacity bars) is to simply look at the dash. 1 bar gone is -15%; each additional missing bar are -6.5% each. If you want more granularity than that, you need to invest in LEAF spy, an ELM 327 OBDII adapter to plug into the car; and an Android or *Apple device to install LEAF Spy on and read the data with (*Apple app not quite ready for public release).

mwalsh said:

gringostar said:

How can I tell if the batteries have degraded? Is there a digital gauge that will tell how long or how much the batteries have left?

Click to expand...

The easiest way (assuming it has missing capacity bars) is to simply look at the dash. 1 bar gone is -15%; each additional missing bar are -6.5% each.

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And please be sure you understand WHICH parts of the dashboard display are the "capacity bars" that mwalsh is talking about. A quick Google search turned up this link which has about as good a picture as any. It shows the dashboard display from a LEAF that's fully charged but to a diminished capacity ("Yes, my canteen is full, but since it got dented, it only holds a pint and a half instead of a quart"...). The capacity bars are the things that appear to be thin arcs along the outside of the fan-shaped display of current charge level, and if you look in the neighborhood of the numeral "1", you'll see that the topmost long bar of charge isn't bordered by a capacity bar arc anymore.

Sounds like a 2011 will work great for your commute. However, I'll like to touch on a few things that have been mentioned, but maybe make them more clear.

The 2011/2012 Leaf is an entirely different car than the 2013 and newer. Almost everything under the hood was changed in 2013. That includes the battery pack. About the only thing that didn't change was the body style. So just beware of these issues with a 2011 compared to the modern ones people are likely talking about in message boards.

• The 2011/2012 models are notorious for battery degradation after a few years. The 2013+ seem to be holding up a lot better. Nissan still warranties the car to have at least 70% of original capacity, though.
• The 2011/2012 charge pretty slow compared to the newer models, even when using 240V.
• The 2011/2012 models have a energy sucking heater
• The 2011/2012 models have less cargo room because the charger is mounted back there taking up a huge lump behind the rear seats.

Living in Orange county, if you don't plan on taking more than 30 mile trips with the car, the 2011 will serve you fine for a lot less money. The first generation Leaf was built in Japan, and the overall build quality is higher then the 2013 and up years. We keep saying here that these first Leafs are great city commuter cars, but whenever someone like you asks about using one for just that, we warn you about the reduced range. ;-) You will *always* have enough capacity for trips up to 25 miles in your climate. Just try not to get the pack too hot, for too long, to preserve what capacity it has.

mwalsh said:

gringostar said:

How can I tell if the batteries have degraded? Is there a digital gauge that will tell how long or how much the batteries have left?

Click to expand...

The easiest way (assuming it has missing capacity bars) is to simply look at the dash. 1 bar gone is -15%; each additional missing bar are -6.5% each. If you want more granularity than that, you need to invest in LEAF spy, an ELM 327 OBDII adapter to plug into the car; and an Android or *Apple device to install LEAF Spy on and read the data with (*Apple app not quite ready for public release).

Click to expand...

Here is a dash picture showing a fully charged (12 "fuel" bars) next to 9 remaining capacity bars and a Leaf DD showing 65% remaining according to low level scanning of the battery controller.


Due to the vagaries of how the battery warranty is all or nothing at 5 years/60k miles you either want to buy a leaf with minimal degradation, or one that is heavily degraded without too many miles so that it is assured to be covered under warranty. Avoid high mileage cars with moderately degraded batteries, as backwards as it sounds.

Thanks guys. With that said, does it make sense to buy a 2013 for $16,500 or a 2011 for $11,500. That's $5,000 more. Is the battery replacement going to cost a lot in the future? I'd like to be able to at drive at least 50-70 miles per day if I need to. On most days my commute will be 20-30 miles.

Thanks

gringostar said:

Thanks guys. With that said, does it make sense to buy a 2013 for $16,500 or a 2011 for $11,500. That's $5,000 more. Is the battery replacement going to cost a lot in the future? I'd like to be able to at drive at least 50-70 miles per day if I need to. On most days my commute will be 20-30 miles.

Thanks

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Out of warranty battery replacement is $5500 exchange, plus fitting kit and labor. So we reckon around $6500 all-in with sales tax and whatnot. If you find a 2011 that will make it to warranty and you can live with the range reduction in the meantime, you are quids-in. If you think a car you're looking at won't make warranty, you could still try to drive the price down some more and be "even-Stevens" after an out-of-warranty purchase vs. the 2013 option, and you'd have a better pack than you'd get in the 2013 once you're done (a 2015-up "lizard" pack).

gringostar said:

With that said, does it make sense to buy a 2013 for $16,500 or a 2011 for $11,500.

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That's a religious war around here.. ;-)
If either will work, it comes down to money and how safe you feel with the drive (which is tough to gauge until you get used to driving EVs..)

gringostar said:

That's $5,000 more. Is the battery replacement going to cost a lot in the future?

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Intesting.. The battery replacement is .. what, $6500 with a $1000 trade in of your old battery.
So that's a wash almost..
You could plan on driving the car now, when (if) you want/need to, replace the battery..
Of course, the 2013 is also a 3 (almost depending) year newer car.
Unless it's an SV or SL model 2013, you won't have the 6kw charger (unless the 2013 S was upgraded with one, which was an option). Not sure how much of an issue that would be tho...
Similar with the Heat Pump. I think that's only on the SV and SL models for 2013.

gringostar said:

I'd like to be able to at drive at least 50-70 miles per day if I need to. On most days my commute will be 20-30 miles.

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For either car, that can depend on your driving habits. If you drive faster on freeways/highways, that might be an issue, even with a 2013.
However, if your Leaf has a Quick Charge port (optional for some models), then that can be lessened with a short charge when needed..

One of the first things I'd do is load up plugshare (or just go to the website) and check for chargers along your expected routes.

Of course, the other option is a lease of a new Leaf.

desiv

I went the lease route. Got a 2015 S with QC for $225/mo ($246/mo after taxes are added in) from Puente Hills Nissan off the 60.

With all the new changes coming in the next 2-3 years, I don't see the Leaf holding its resell value, and figure in 3 years I'll want to upgrade to the 150-200 miles range cars that should be out by then anyway. Plus no worries about battery degradation, and there are many No Charge to Charge locations around Orange County where you can charge for free for 2 years with a new lease, and I got a free L2 charger thrown in as well.

So for me at least, it made sense to lease. Certainly not the option for everyone though.

Thanks guys. I think I'll go for the 2011 at $11,500. The depreciation is already there. I estimate if the battery goes at 100,000 miles, it will come out to about $18 per week. Any idea how long the battery should last? That would help my computations even more.

gringostar said:

... I'd like to be able to at drive at least 50-70 miles per day if I need to. On most days my commute will be 20-30 miles.
...

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Most of what you said made a 2011 LEAF seem OK.
But most 2011 LEAFs have lost one capacity bar or are close, and have lost 15% or more capacity.
Only a brand new LEAF will do 70 miles. The EPA range rating is only slightly more than 70 miles.

But that is from fully charged to very low battery warning.
Many people do not feel comfortable driving it that low.

If you really need 70 miles for two or three years, you need a much newer LEAF.

If 50 miles will do the 2011 may work OK for two or three years in warm southern CA if you never use the heat.

The 2011 LEAF nominal range for typical driving is 40 to 60 miles, but in very cold weather with heat use it is a 30 to 35 mile range vehicle

Sometimes I think threads like this are just elaborate trolls. 'My commute is just 8 miles', followed, much later by "Oh, but I want to drive 80 miles a day." ;-(

LeftieBiker said:

Sometimes I think threads like this are just elaborate trolls. 'My commute is just 8 miles', followed, much later by "Oh, but I want to drive 80 miles a day." ;-(

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What would I gain by trolling? My commute to work is 7 miles one way. Currently my average use is 41 miles per day. But that includes several road trips per year in my Prius. I never said 80 miles per day.

I was exaggerating, and that wasn't directed just at you. When you post just your commute, people assume that this, plus a comfortable margin, is the range you need. You would have saved us a lot of typing if you'd written upfront that you want a 50-70 mile range from a 2011 Leaf.

LeftieBiker said:

I was exaggerating, and that wasn't directed just at you. When you post just your commute, people assume that this, plus a comfortable margin, is the range you need. You would have saved us a lot of typing if you'd written upfront that you want a 50-70 mile range from a 2011 Leaf.

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Yeah, 50-70 miles / charge is a LOT different than 14 miles / charge.

'11-12 LEAFs just won't go much over 50 miles if you plan on driving on the freeway at 65+ mph after 3+ years (eg, I drove 52.7 miles over the weekend at 4.4 mi/kWh and got LBW (low battery warning) a few miles from home. Most people simply won't be comfortable too far past LBW. I car probably had around another 12 miles left of range in it at that efficiency until the car stops, or about 65 miles total, but I wouldn't recommend anyone drive it that far. Range to a bit past LBW is generally a fairly safe driving range to expect unless you have a very consistent drive.

The '13+ LEAFs seem to be more efficiency in typical driving, plus the batteries are holding up better. I hear stories all the time about how newer LEAF owners are able to drive 70 miles / charge pretty easily, but I was never able to do that in my '11.

All that said, that's a big price difference between an '11 and a '13 - there's really two options besides the range that help on the '13 that others have mentioned:
6 kW L2 charging (if so equipped) - being able to put in 25 miles of charge in an hour on a standard L2 station compared to about 15 is huge when you need it and no QC stations are available.
Heated seats, steering wheel and heat pump will also make the mild So-Cal winters a lot more enjoyable, too, with minimal hit to range.