tips when buying used?

Hi newbie but long time reader here. I am looking to buy a used leaf. I have spend many hours reading as much info as I can here to learn about the car and its highlights and faults.

I have not seen a good post that instructs someone how to shop for a used leaf. Personally I want a 2013 to get the heat pump and 6.6 kw charger. It appears my market has quite a number of used leafs around now, some with miles in the ODO suggesting they are USA imports. Of the photos I have seen most have 12 battery bars. Is a leafstat or leafspy really necessary to purchase used? I understand the 12 bars doesn't give as granular a picture. I guess the leafspy also shows SOH too?

What other items should one be paying extra attention to when buying a used leaf? Was the rear cargo cover always included or was it an extra?

It seems like first owners are getting a good deal around here, taking the gov't rebate, driving the car for 2 years, turning it in and selling for 85% value...maybe leafs are overpriced in my area. With tesla set to talk about its economy model soon and the next leaf pending and who knows what else I wonder if a significant drop in used prices are around the corner and if I should be waiting.

Any thoughts?

Can you update your location info via User Control Panel (near top) > Profile (left side)? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.

What are your daily driving needs in terms of miles? How much city vs. highway? Will you have the ability to charge at your work/destinations?

vwDavid said:

It appears my market has quite a number of used leafs around now, some with miles in the ODO suggesting they are USA imports.
...
Was the rear cargo cover always included or was it an extra?

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Don't know where your market is. It sounds like you're not in the US.

For the cargo cover, on the '13, it was only standard on the SL. It was NOT included on the S and SV. I bought my own for my leased SV.

I unfortunately don't have time to answer the rest of your questions.

Vancouver, BC. Good temperature profile for the battery. The leaf will do nicely for either my commute ( 7 km each way) or my wifes commute (12 km each way). So I don't question the viability of the leaf in our family. we also so a lot of short trips (library, community center, etc, etc).

But I am concerned about weeding out bad leafs and good leafs...maybe I am over concerned.

I wouldn't even consider buying a Leaf without using LeafSpy to check the battery health (SOH), after that recent incident where the dealer quite evidently had reset the BMS computer. If possible, not only get a Carfax run on the VIN, but ask if you can see all the Nissan dealer records, which would hopefully show you where the car came from (and how much heat the battery was exposed to), but also if there were any battery issues or if the BMS was reset.

^^^
I believe http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2014/11/buyers-beware-this-is-must-read.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2014/12/update-saga-of-vin-222-resolved.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; refers to the above incident.

keydiver said:

I wouldn't even consider buying a Leaf without using LeafSpy to check the battery health (SOH) ...

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+1 Some aftermarket battery display is a must to check the true state of the battery. It's too easy for the car's display to be manipulated either intentionally or unintentionally.

A battery reset will change what LeafSpy sees too. However, if you see 99% SOH, you can be pretty sure it's been reset.

Oh, and my 2013 in about the same climate as you is at 93% SOH right now, just so you know what you should be expecting.

The premature battery degradation issues of the 2011/2012 models supposedly (from what some are saying) are not showing up to the same extent with the 2013 models. That said, if you can run a CarFax on the car to see where it was originally registered is helpful, and sticking with cars that spent their whole lives in the Pacific Northwest would help alleviate any concerns about battery degradation. But even if you got unlucky and ended up with a "9 bar" car, your needs for this car are such that it would take super-severe degradation, or a change in life circumstances, to impact its usability.

As Nissan went from Japanese production to Tennessee production for the 2013 North American models, there were some quality control issues that cropped up with early production models. The most infamous one is the poor Leafer who bought a Leaf S, which comes ONLY with a black cloth interior, and when he got it home realized that someone screwed up and put in a black leather back seat cushion. The rest of the car had cloth seating surfaces so it's not something he could just ignore.

One that seems to have been mentioned frequently is reports of water pooling in the footwell, especially the driver's footwell, after using the A/C. Apparently on such cars the tube that leads from the A/C condenser was not attached at all to the fitting that leads the water to the outside, so the water would just gush out from under the center console. It's an easy fix but as these cars are now 2 years old you may want to check for mold growth.

One thing you may want to check on is if you're buying a used US-spec Leaf, is your local Nissan dealer going to honor any possible warranty issues?

RonDawg said:

The premature battery degradation issues of the 2011/2012 models supposedly (from what some are saying) are not showing up to the same extent with the 2013 models. That said, if you can run a CarFax on the car to see where it was originally registered is helpful, and sticking with cars that spent their whole lives in the Pacific Northwest would help alleviate any concerns about battery degradation. But even if you got unlucky and ended up with a "9 bar" car, your needs for this car are such that it would take super-severe degradation, or a change in life circumstances, to impact its usability.

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On the '13 battery degradation, it's not clear why (e.g. battery is more heat resistant, capacity loss gauge algorithm changes, hot climate folks taking better care of their batteries, etc.) or if it's just they haven't had enough time yet or that Phoenicians/hot climate folks have be sufficiently scared away or those folks just aren't here on MNL in large quantity.

Some of those '13s have been thru 2 hot summers, whereas newer '13s probably have only been thru 1. Nissan did make unspecified chemistry tweaks on the '13 Leaf.

IIRC, the '11 Leaf battery degradation issues began cropping up in the midst of their 2nd summer.

RonDawg said:

One thing you may want to check on is if you're buying a used US-spec Leaf, is your local Nissan dealer going to honor any possible warranty issues?

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Yep.

pkulak said:

A battery reset will change what LeafSpy sees too. However, if you see 99% SOH, you can be pretty sure it's been reset.

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Does it change Gids too?

Thanks all, to confirm and summarize

During leaf Stat interrogation on a used prospective leaf I will look at the:

SOH state of health which is estimated battery condition based on some calculation on internal impedance, closer to 100% is better

Capacity, this is the current estimate of % capacity based on original capacity (100%) but could be reset by a reseller, so 99% values on a used vehicle are suspicious.

and lower average battery temps are better

GIDs, with a 100% charges GIDs closer to 292ish are better.

Also look at delivery location and subsequent owners location (though perhaps not all that important with reasonable average temperature readings)

Nubo said:

pkulak said:

A battery reset will change what LeafSpy sees too. However, if you see 99% SOH, you can be pretty sure it's been reset.

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Does it change Gids too?

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I answered this once, but post is missing in action.

I think the GIDS will be incorrect too.
Tick Tick may be able to clarify.
Dealer did reset twice, and his graph shows SOH jumped to 100% but briefly for one data point.
See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=18244&hilit=reset&start=0#p394179" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

My guess is GIDS will act similarly.
But the capacity bars will take a long time, multiple weeks or months, to become accurate.

TimLee said:

My guess is GIDS will act similarly.
But the capacity bars will take a long time, multiple weeks or months, to become accurate.

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So, if the internal BMS has been reset then you really can't tell what you are buying...what should one do just avoid that vehicle I guess.

Any comments from the arm chair gallery on this vehicle (was a 2013 really available in white with beige interior? Could this be a 2012?)
http://vancouver.craigslist.ca/pml/ctd/4817762587.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Damn, that is a lot of money. Even considering the 0.86 exchange rate right now. How hard is it to import one from Washington? That car is 10 grand cheaper over the border. Especially if it doesn't have the charge package. There's some quick chargers popping up now around the Vancouver area.

vwDavid said:

Any comments from the arm chair gallery on this vehicle (was a 2013 really available in white with beige interior? Could this be a 2012?)
http://vancouver.craigslist.ca/pml/ctd/4817762587.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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You can tell it's a '13+ with two clues:

1. No side marker lights on the fenders.
2. More trunk space between the rear seats (the dark grey humps poking towards the center don't go all the away across).

With 3000 miles and being up north, the battery is probably fine as long as it wasn't stored at 100% charge for a long time.

Unfortunately that car is not available (perhaps fortunately). Most similar examples are all similarly priced. I'm wondering if after the Volt announcement Jan 16th if the market will shift at all.

I think I will look in Wa state now.

Looking for a 2013 SV with QC/LED's might consider an SL. Low miles is preferred...

vwDavid said:

... Looking for a 2013 SV with QC/LED's might consider an SL. Low miles is preferred...

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A few other threads on MNL indicate there are a few 2013 LEAFs that have never been sold hanging around in the US.
And some of them being sold at prices not much above used 2013.

If you can wait a couple months a lot of '13s should start showing up after coming off 2 year leases. March 2013 had a big jump in sales volume.

Thanks for the tip for March 2013.

I went and sat in a 2013 SV today. It had less leg room than the versa note I rented last month. I am 6'2. Any tall lead drivers here? I also can't sit in the back. I would like it if the driver seat went back on more notch.

Also this SV had QC LEDs but no rear cam. I thought that was odd. It had 3000 km only.

Also why can you run the heat with a double tap on?