Considering buying used but.....

Am really close to buying a used 2012 SL with 14k miles for $14,900. It is in like new condition. My wife will be driving it around town but no real commuting. We only put about 5k miles/year on the car this would replace. The price seems right to me but reading all the complaints of battery degredation is really giving me pause. I live in the pacific northwest and understand that our weather conditions may be a bit more favorable to the batteries. Are there any good estimates on how long the battery will last before needing replaced? Guess I'm just looking for any advice. Thanks for listening...

^How far will the longest trips be? If it is just short errands of 30 miles or less (round trip) the gradual battery degradation will be almost irrelevant because even a very degraded battery could make that easily. If the use involves longer trips of 50 miles (or more) then that may take some planning in cold or rainy weather and, perhaps, stops for charging enroute. So, more information needed.

The age and mileage of the car are less important than the battery condition. Do you know that the car has been in the PNW since original purchase? Does it have all twelve battery capacity bars? [Those are the little bars just to the right of the twelve fuel bars; the bottom two capacity bars are red.]

My guess is that the car will work well for you but it depends a great deal on what you will be using it for. For short trips the battery might well last five to eight more years, but that's just a guess. And a replacement is "only" about $6000 installed, at which point you might well get another ten years or more (again, for short trips).

Thanks for the reply. Most trips would be way under 30 miles round trip. I will need to confirm the number of bars - is this done by asking the seller to fully charge it and then just look to see if there are twelve bars? The car is local to Portland so it's not been shipped in from souther states.

flapbreaker said:

Thanks for the reply. Most trips would be way under 30 miles round trip. I will need to confirm the number of bars - is this done by asking the seller to fully charge it and then just look to see if there are twelve bars? The car is local to Portland so it's not been shipped in from souther states.

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No need to charge the car, a simple picture of the dash will allow you to count the capacity bars. Even if the car was down a capacity bar (meaning ~15-21% reduction in capacity) you could easily do 30 mile trips for years to come.

Here is a picture of a car that has lost three capacity bars, meaning it has just nine left:
http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/File:Scott_3_bars_s.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you would like to know more precisely how much battery capacity the car has left you would need to borrow a meter from another local LEAF owner. But a car with eleven or twelve capacity bars ought to serve you well in the PNW.

Like DGP says, you should be just fine.

If you're in Portland, feel free to use my meter if you'd like to know _exactly_ how much capacity is left. If it has 12 bars, that could be anywhere between 100% and 86%. Though you can probably just assume it's at 86%, since that will server your needs just fine anyway. Even if it's been in the PNW it's whole life, a 2012 is with 12 bars is probably close to losing the first one.

Thanks guys that very helpful. I'll try and take a look.

Just confirmed that it has 12 bars so likely a decent battery. So far everything is checking out good. Seems that the depreciation has been pretty steep on these lately that they are of good value point. I was told by a dealership that nissan had been holding quite a few lease returns back but recently released a lot of them to the dealers for resale making a soft market.

You should be fine. I've got a 2011 with 11 bars and can still get 50-60 miles easily. I even got 85 mi in Sept but that was a special trip to see if it was possible. Winter is tough due to the heater use and I can get it down to 30-40 miles if I really blast the heat.

flapbreaker said:

Just confirmed that it has 12 bars so likely a decent battery. So far everything is checking out good. Seems that the depreciation has been pretty steep on these lately that they are of good value point. I was told by a dealership that nissan had been holding quite a few lease returns back but recently released a lot of them to the dealers for resale making a soft market.

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That's nice to hear. I'd love to replace my current leased '13 with used '13 when it's up, but there seem to be none of those available right now. Hopefully that changes in the next several months.

flapbreaker said:

Am really close to buying a used 2012 SL with 14k miles for $14,900.

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Have you considered leasing a new leaf? Have you seen the great lease deals? 2013 had improved battery over 2012. You will see used 2013 leafs for sale coming off 2 year lease in the March time frame.

Where you located?

I would also invest in an OBDII reader and run LEAF Spy on the battery to get a more comprehensive view of the battery health. Also, take the VIN to a Nissan dealer to have them confirm there isn't a battery warranty exclusion on that car. If there isn't, I say pull the trigger- with 12 bars, and that low of miles, it seems like a good price and is perfect for your needs.

I'd love to replace my current leased '13 with used '13 when it's up, but there seem to be none of those available right now. Hopefully that changes in the next several months.

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Try to negotiate a good residual price on the car you are leasing. At least one person here was offered a lower buyout price than was in his lease.

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. I'll have the vin checked tomorrow. One last question. Does running the heated seats reduce mileage or do they run off the auxiliary battery?

flapbreaker said:

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. I'll have the vin checked tomorrow. One last question. Does running the heated seats reduce mileage or do they run off the auxiliary battery?

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Heating or cooling anything draws power from the battery and will reduce range and efficiency. But, heating the seats is more efficient than heating the cabin. Best to run the heated seats and steering wheel to reduce heater usage.

BTW, from everything I hear, the (resistive) water block-based heater on the '11 and '12 Leafs is slow to heat and a power pig compared to the hybrid heater (w/heat pump portion) available on '13+ Leaf SV and SL. http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=397720#p397720" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; is a recent relative comparison. I'm pretty sure MrIanB's Leaf is a pre-'13.

LeftieBiker said:

Try to negotiate a good residual price on the car you are leasing. At least one person here was offered a lower buyout price than was in his lease.

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Was this ever confirmed? I tried to get details (such as the offer he was given), but I didn't hear anything else.

One more question. I was looking at the charging rates for public charging in my area and unless my math is wrong it looks like it actually costs more than gas to "fill up". There are mostly Blink charge stations around which charge between $0.49/kWh and $0.59/kWh depending on the level of service. So if a leaf takes 27 kWh to charge it would cost $13.23 for the possibility of driving 75 miles? That's 17 cents/mile which by my math is more than an average small car burning gasoline. Am I looking at this the right way? If so then all these public chargers are more for emergencies than anything else it would appear.

flapbreaker said:

One more question. I was looking at the charging rates for public charging in my area and unless my math is wrong it looks like it actually costs more than gas to "fill up". There are mostly Blink charge stations around which charge between $0.49/kWh and $0.59/kWh depending on the level of service. So if a leaf takes 27 kWh to charge it would cost $13.23 for the possibility of driving 75 miles? That's 17 cents/mile which by my math is more than an average small car burning gasoline. Am I looking at this the right way? If so then all these public chargers are more for emergencies than anything else it would appear.

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Public charging is expensive, usually. Inconvenient, usually.

Most charging is at home. Easy to plug in when you get home, unplug when you leave in the comfort of your garage. Cheaper.

WetEV said:

flapbreaker said:

One more question. I was looking at the charging rates for public charging in my area and unless my math is wrong it looks like it actually costs more than gas to "fill up". There are mostly Blink charge stations around which charge between $0.49/kWh and $0.59/kWh depending on the level of service. So if a leaf takes 27 kWh to charge it would cost $13.23 for the possibility of driving 75 miles? That's 17 cents/mile which by my math is more than an average small car burning gasoline. Am I looking at this the right way? If so then all these public chargers are more for emergencies than anything else it would appear.

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Public charging is expensive, usually. Inconvenient, usually.

Most charging is at home. Easy to plug in when you get home, unplug when you leave in the comfort of your garage. Cheaper.

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Yeah, I figured home charging was the predominate method, I was just surprised at the 800% increase in public charge rates over home rates. Don't see how they stay in business.

flapbreaker said:

WetEV said:

flapbreaker said:

One more question. I was looking at the charging rates for public charging in my area and unless my math is wrong it looks like it actually costs more than gas to "fill up". There are mostly Blink charge stations around which charge between $0.49/kWh and $0.59/kWh depending on the level of service. So if a leaf takes 27 kWh to charge it would cost $13.23 for the possibility of driving 75 miles? That's 17 cents/mile which by my math is more than an average small car burning gasoline. Am I looking at this the right way? If so then all these public chargers are more for emergencies than anything else it would appear.

Click to expand...

Public charging is expensive, usually. Inconvenient, usually.

Most charging is at home. Easy to plug in when you get home, unplug when you leave in the comfort of your garage. Cheaper.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I figured home charging was the predominate method, I was just surprised at the 800% increase in public charge rates over home rates. Don't see how they stay in business.

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If everyone filled up their gas cars at home, gas stations would be pretty screwed too.

They are there so you can make trips beyond the range of your car. If, like me, you only have one car, paying 3 bucks to fill up is much cheaper than renting a car.

kubel said:

...Also, take the VIN to a Nissan dealer to have them confirm there isn't a battery warranty exclusion on that car...

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While that won't hurt, there is essentially zero chance that a Portland LEAF will be able to take advantage of the battery capacity warranty. So it makes no difference one way or the other.