newbie question to charging station

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min68

Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2014
Messages
17
Location
Santa Clara, CA
I am new Leaf 2015 owner, Just got it today.
I am kind of confusing on the charge stations. There are so many kinds of info on it.

1, Nissan 2 year free (EZ charge) that is free for every 30 min/session for DC high. On the charging stations, is there a set to limit to 30min so Iam really free?
And "level 2" for 1 hour free only charges 14%? that seems useless "free".

2, plugshare
When I go to plugshare webpage , around me there are a lot of residential chargers, how do they charge? anybody really used them?
And for "public", they list a lot of like Toyota dealer, BMW dealer etc, are they free if I drive Nissan Leaf in and charge?

3, On EZ charge website, they say after free session (or , after 2 year ) the price is:
DC fast charging fees can range from 10 cents per minute to $5 to $10 per session. Level 2 charging fees may range between $0.49 per kilowatt-hour to $1 to $3 per hour. Charging fees are noted at each station.
if for DC high, i $8 /session = 60 mile for leaf, it is 13c/mile; Level 2 $2 per hour = $12 mile for leaf, they both seem higher than gas price for same size car like Civic. Then what's the benefit of EV car?
 
For most of us the charging at home is primary and low cost.
The rest is only as necessary or convenient.

Are you expecting to primarily charge at public stations?
 
It would help to know where you live, are you able to install a home unit, such as in your garage, and what your home electric rate will be for additional draw to charge your Leaf at home, expected usage of your Leaf on a daily, weekly basis, and do you actually need charging outside of the range of your home.

In general, we uaually expect to get 4 miles per kwh. For me I currently pay $0.14 per kwh at home so it cost me just over $0.03 per mile to power the Leaf. This means that to get 30 miles of charge cost me about $1. As soon as whe get home from driving the Leaf we plug it in, with the charging level on the Leaf set to 80% charge. I do not believe you have that option on the MY2015 Leaf. This way it is always ready to give us about 65 miles of range.

The speed of the "FREE" charging would be about 60 miles of charge for the DCQC L-3 for 30 minutes, or what would cost me about $2 at home. Now the question to ask: is it worth saving $2 for me to drive over to a quick charging station to save $2? For me the answer is "NO." If I am taking a trip outside of my home range we are taking the ICE and pay the gas prices of almost $4 per gallon. My time is more valuable to me than the electricity savings.

I have a friend that lives very close to the Nissan dealer so it is very easy for him to stop by on his way to/from home. Also he lives in an appartment that does not have a way to install a home EVSE for him to use on a daily basis. Therefore he now plans to plug in once or twice daily to use the NCTC program. He always has something to do while he is plugged in so his time is not wasted.

Hope this is helpful for you to consider the options.
 
Graffi said:
In general, we uaually expect to get 4 miles per kwh. For me I currently pay $0.14 per kwh at home so it cost me just over $0.03 per mile to power the Leaf. This means that to get 30 miles of charge cost me about $1. As soon as whe get home from driving the Leaf we plug it in, with the charging level on the Leaf set to 80% charge.

Thanks. I am in CA, the rate is 0.15-0.17/kwh . My calculation is charge 1 hour= 4 mile=15Ax110V=25c, so 6c/mile. Still better than gas ;) .

BTW when I charge in my garage though 110V outlet, after a while, I unplug the charger, the 110V outlet is pretty hot. Is this same in your case? Probably I need to put a fire alarm near the outlet LOL.

Seems Nissan "no charge to charge" program is kind of useless by reading other posts (limited station supported, people got charged, etc). A little disappointed.
 
min68 said:
Thanks. I am in CA, the rate is 0.15-0.17/kwh . My calculation is charge 1 hour= 4 mile=15Ax110V=25c, so 6c/mile. Still better than gas ;) .

BTW when I charge in my garage though 110V outlet, after a while, I unplug the charger, the 110V outlet is pretty hot. Is this same in your case? Probably I need to put a fire alarm near the outlet LOL.

Seems Nissan "no charge to charge" program is kind of useless by reading other posts (limited station supported, people got charged, etc). A little disappointed.

Welcome to the EV community :) Once you are hooked you likely won't want to drive ICE again...

Home charging: Get a 240v plug installed and upgrade your EVSE to handle it. There are several reasons for this. First, having a plug installed by someone you trust will ensure that it is done correctly and 'up to specs' for the prolonged use of charging. Your hot plug might be an indication that the wiring isn't quite up to spec there.... Second, you effectively have more efficient charging due to less overhead loss (when charging some pumps run burning 300w no matter if you are charging at 1.2Kw or 6Kw - it adds up over time). Having the upgraded EVSE is good 'just in case' you have to charge elsewhere sometime in the future as well.

The "no charge to charge" is something I have no direct experience with, but from what I have read it does seem more like a marketing gimmick than anything. Certainly not something intended to be used as a primary means of getting your fuel. Home charging is where it is at for convenience and minimal costs - unless you are that 'lucky' guy who can park at the free charger and walk home (which then I guess is really free home charging, but I digress).
 
Slow1 said:
Home charging: Get a 240v plug installed and upgrade your EVSE to handle it. There are several reasons for this. First, having a plug installed by someone you trust will ensure that it is done correctly and 'up to specs' for the prolonged use of charging. Your hot plug might be an indication that the wiring isn't quite up to spec there.... Second, you effectively have more efficient charging due to less overhead loss (when charging some pumps run burning 300w no matter if you are charging at 1.2Kw or 6Kw - it adds up over time). Having the upgraded EVSE is good 'just in case' you have to charge elsewhere sometime in the future as well..

Cool. Just searched around, seems this cable is the cheapest solution, I just need to plug into my 240V dryer outlet to get 4 hour charging? I do have 6.6KW charger and QC on my Leaf
http://www.amazon.com/TurboCord-Dual-Plug--Charger-Volt/dp/B00J8O1XQE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Update:
I found this link:
http://evseupgrade.com/?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=28" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It says " Your 2015 LEAF can safely and efficiently charge at up to over 3 times faster than it did on the original unit when used on any 208-240 volt 30 amp outlet! This means you will see amazingly faster 5 to 7 hour typical charge times. The unit still retains the ability to be used on a standard household outlet*, and it then charges at up to 12 amps. The advanced programming feature allows you to set the charging speed, if desired, to as low as 6 amps in 1 amp increments, and the unit remembers its amp settings for both level 1 and 2 separately."

This seems the cheapest solution, $287
 
Well... for about half that you can just upgrade your current EVSE through http://evseupgrade.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; .

I had mine done and am very pleased.

If your dryer plug is close enough it would work. Keep in mind, however, that some have suggested that if you swap back and forth between the dryer and the EVSE it will eventually take a toll on the plug itself. I'm not sure how many times one has to do this before having issues though...
 
min68 said:
BTW when I charge in my garage though 110V outlet, after a while, I unplug the charger, the 110V outlet is pretty hot. Is this same in your case? Probably I need to put a fire alarm near the outlet LOL.
Maybe warm but not hot. No LOL, get it looked at asap. If the outlet has the stab connections replace it with an outlet with screw clamps. Even better add a dedicated circuit.
 
min68 said:
BTW when I charge in my garage though 110V outlet, after a while, I unplug the charger, the 110V outlet is pretty hot.

Loose, worn out electrical outlets seem to be the main issue people have who are attempting to use the factory "trickle" EVSE at home. As other said, try replacing the outlet with a new one that grips the prongs of the plug very tightly, and connect the wires to the screws of the new outlet, not the stab holes. Sorry to repeat what others said, just trying to clarify.
But, you would be much happier with 240 VAC charging in the long term. Its not only faster, but a more efficient use of electricity.
 
1. Nissan "ChargeFree" (I don't have) sound more like a pain to use then its worth, More a marketing gimic.

2. PlugShare - Residential Good for "Emergency" use, but I would not count on them, You need to call the owner, and get access to them, Heard some People Get like $5 Starbucks card as a Thank-You Gift. But it not a place you should plan to charge.

3. L3 DC charging is good for Range Extension,

but Since you can charge @ home that should be your plan, I would upgrade your power to 240V and get a Separate Charging unit, keep the 120V in your trunk for offsite emergency. (Is your car a lease or did you buy it?)
 
min68 said:
...2, plugshare
When I go to plugshare webpage , around me there are a lot of residential chargers, how do they charge? anybody really used them?
And for "public", they list a lot of like Toyota dealer, BMW dealer etc, are they free if I drive Nissan Leaf in and charge?...
Residential stations are posted as a courtesy for people who need a charge to get home. It should always be "call first" unless the listing says otherwise.

Car dealer sites are highly variable; some are friendly to EVs dropping by, others discourage use by cars not there for service. And most EVSEs at dealers are open during normal business hours even if they do let you charge. Actual public charge stations, if there are any in your area, are your best bet. Depends a lot on where you live.

As others have said, the best option is to charge at home, preferably at 240 V. Please don't use that 120 V outlet that gets hot before replacing it with a new one. A 120 V outlet that is properly wired should not get hot. Also, make sure the EVSE is the only thing operating on that circuit or you may overload it (and trip the breaker, if it is working properly).
 
I was also interested in the answers to #2, but didn't see the entire question addressed. To expand: if I were to plug into a charge port at $2/hour, would my card be charged the entire time I was plugged in, even if the car itself had finished charging long before I got back? I.e: If I was gone for 4 hours, but the car finished charging in 3, would I pay $6 or $8?

Does this remind anyone of the word problems in elementary school math?

Carolyn
2015 Leaf, red, ~1200 miles (bang goes the 1,000/month theory!)
 
$8.00

You pay for as long as you are plugged in, so 4hours x $2 = $8.00

Since charger are a limited, you should move your car as soon as it done, Your car being there is preventing another car from plugging in, and the charger owner to make money by charging the 2nd car, if they stopped charging when your car is "full"

Some ESEV's are programmed to have a penalty rate after X (3 - 4 hrs on L2, 20-30min on L3) the rate doubles or triple to encourage you to move on.
 
Excellent information--thank you so much!

Carolyn
flyonpa said:
$8.00

You pay for as long as you are plugged in, so 4hours x $2 = $8.00

Since charger are a limited, you should move your car as soon as it done, Your car being there is preventing another car from plugging in, and the charger owner to make money by charging the 2nd car, if they stopped charging when your car is "full"

Some ESEV's are programmed to have a penalty rate after X (3 - 4 hrs on L2, 20-30min on L3) the rate doubles or triple to encourage you to move on.
 
min68 said:
...they both seem higher than gas price for same size car like Civic. Then what's the benefit of EV car?

Right. The purely financial benefits of an EV are really not realized if you pay to QC for all of your needs. But there are often many other (less costly) avenues to charge. I can't wait until there is a QC somewhere close enough that I might use it! (right now closest is 250 miles away).

Wanted to point out one thing. This thread now talks about quick charge (QC), and also about 3.3kW charging rates. You won't have both. You either have up to 6.6kW charging with the option that gets you the QC port (even if your aren't using the QC port for the charge, the onboard charger is 6.6kW)... or you have the 3.3kW onboard charger (standard model S has when no charge package is installed) and you do not have QC as an option. Only level 2.
 
min68 said:
Thanks. I am in CA, the rate is 0.15-0.17/kwh . My calculation is charge 1 hour= 4 mile=15Ax110V=25c, so 6c/mile. Still better than gas ;) .

BTW when I charge in my garage though 110V outlet, after a while, I unplug the charger, the 110V outlet is pretty hot. Is this same in your case? Probably I need to put a fire alarm near the outlet LOL.
You must be in Canada - the CAlifornia I am in has power for 34 cents/kWh.

If your outlet is getting hot, stop using it. It has been suggested that continuing to use it will have it getting hotter and hotter. Replace it with a good heavy duty outlet (not a $2 special... matched to the circuit size and wire capabilities. The socket should grip the plug tightly.

Better yet, have a 240 volt circuit put in with 40 or 50 amp breaker and wiring. Run that to a wall mount evse so charging is just roll up and plug in. This way you can use one that can deliver up to 30 amps.

Using the dryer outlet (30 amp) will limit you to 24 amp charge, and most chargers limit that to 20 - I think the evseupgrade for 2015 linits to 16 amps.

At one point you said: And "level 2" for 1 hour free only charges 14%? that seems useless "free".
I get about double that in an hour at L2, which L2 charger do you have in your car, the 3.3 or 6.6 kW unit? (The only way a L2 would only give 14 miles in an hour is if charging is limited to 3.3 kw, such as by the evseupgrade or the 3.3 kW charger.)
 
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