advice: shopping for used 2011 Leaf

My boyfriend and I are in the market for a used 2011 Nissan Leaf SL. We want to make sure we're buying a good car, but we're not sure how useful it would be to take it to a normal mechanic, and there seem to be mixed reviews on whether taking it to a Nissan dealership to be evaluated would be helpful. Aside from getting a VIN report and checking the battery health with Leaf Spy, what else should we check before we buy?

Thanks for your help! We're in the Bay Area.

Make sure the original buyer or lessor did not opt out of the class action law suit.
That Nissan hasn't flagged the VIN with the B1033 No Battery Capacity Warranty limitation.

Can you update your location info via User Control Panel (near top) > Profile (left side)? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.

What are your daily driving needs in terms of miles? How much city vs. highway? Will you have the ability to charge at your work/destinations?

A Carfax report to check for undisclosed damage might be worth the $10 or so it costs. Just keep in mind they aren't 100% accurate.

Check for total mileage, and where the car has spent the last 3 years (cooler is better) as heat is the primary cause of battery capacity loss. For more information than you ever wanted to know about capacity loss, see link in my signature.

cwerdna said:

Can you update your location info via User Control Panel (near top) > Profile (left side)? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.

What are your daily driving needs in terms of miles? How much city vs. highway? Will you have the ability to charge at your work/destinations?

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I updated my location. Thanks for the suggestion.

I'm headed up to Corvallis, OR in about a month to start veterinary school. My commute will be 28.5 mi one-way, almost entirely country back roads (or I could drive on I-5, but that's not as pretty). There are several EVSE stations in the parking lot across from the vet school, and more around the OSU campus.

FlybyNight17 said:

My boyfriend and I are in the market for a used 2011 Nissan Leaf SL. We want to make sure we're buying a good car, but we're not sure how useful it would be to take it to a normal mechanic, and there seem to be mixed reviews on whether taking it to a Nissan dealership to be evaluated would be helpful. Aside from getting a VIN report and checking the battery health with Leaf Spy, what else should we check before we buy?

Thanks for your help! We're in the Bay Area.

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A "normal" mechanic could check the brakes and tires and suspension. Maybe the coolant? But that's about it. Carfax will tell you if it's lived in a super hot area that degrades the battery pack. LeafSpy will tell you what you really need to know, how far can you go? Find Tony Williams range chart for the amount of Gids it has left, and that will give you a good idea of your range. With your commute to OSU, and the charge stations there, almost any '11 will do you.

A Bay area '11 should be in pretty good shape, rangewise. Last I saw, prices were in the $13ks. A QC port would be handy.

Also might be helpful to run the LEAF Spy Pro Cell Voltage Loss Inspection Test (CVLI).
No matter what the capacity loss of the battery this test is best indicator of how many of the 96 cell pairs are at the point they should potentially be replaced.
Might be covered under the original 8 year 100,000 mile warranty.

Really, the only thing I'd care about is the battery health. Make sure it looks nice and the battery is still in reasonable shape according to the aging model, which says that a car around here (Oregon/Northern Cali) should be at about 85% at 3 years.

TimLee said:

Make sure the original buyer or lessor did not opt out of the class action law suit.
That Nissan hasn't flagged the VIN with the B1033 No Battery Capacity Warranty limitation.

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Do I need to take the car to a Nissan dealer and pay for them to inspect the car to find out if they have flagged the VIN? Would that information be present in the carfax report?

FlybyNight17 said:

TimLee said:

Make sure the original buyer or lessor did not opt out of the class action law suit.
That Nissan hasn't flagged the VIN with the B1033 No Battery Capacity Warranty limitation.

Click to expand...

Do I need to take the car to a Nissan dealer and pay for them to inspect the car to find out if they have flagged the VIN? Would that information be present in the carfax report?

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Dealer. Probably not on Carfax.

You can just pop in with the VIN and have them look it up on their computer. There should be no charge. I'd have them print you a copy too...

FlybyNight17 said:

Do I need to take the car to a Nissan dealer and pay for them to inspect the car to find out if they have flagged the VIN? Would that information be present in the carfax report?

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If you didn't know already a replacement battery is $5500. It's nice to know all the things listed but in case you don't know, or find a cheap car that lived in a hot climate but appears fine (ie leaf spy checked and claimed it was in a cool garage) you can factor that $5500 cost into what you will pay for the "perfect" car vs cheaper car.

FlybyNight17 said:

My commute will be 28.5 mi one-way, almost entirely country back roads (or I could drive on I-5, but that's not as pretty). There are several EVSE stations in the parking lot across from the vet school, and more around the OSU campus.

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Only real issue is that you will very likely need to charge in the winter to make it round trip without recharging. As it is on a 3-year old LEAF, 60 miles is pushing it unless you can keep the speeds down and temperature moderate (which may be possible if you are not taking I5).

Definitely make sure you get the QC port as there are a couple of QC stations along I5 that may come in handy.

Personally, I think that if you know that daily recharging is likely to be required and you may not have dedicated charging at your half-way point, it really may be worth opting for a '13+ LEAF with 6.6 kW L2 charging instead of the 3.3 kW charging on the '11-12 LEAFs. Being able to charge twice as fast on L2 can really come in handy when you need it and a QC station isn't available.

Another option is leasing - it will be cheap for 3 years and after 3 years gives you an easy opportunity to get into a newer LEAF with more range.

drees said:

Another option is leasing - it will be cheap for 3 years and after 3 years gives you an easy opportunity to get into a newer LEAF with more range.

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I think this is good advice. You can get a brand new LEAF for about $200/mo with only your $2500 state rebate up front. You'll be finished with the lease about the same time you're finished with vet school.

billg said:

drees said:

Another option is leasing - it will be cheap for 3 years and after 3 years gives you an easy opportunity to get into a newer LEAF with more range.

Click to expand...

I think this is good advice. You can get a brand new LEAF for about $200/mo with only your $2500 state rebate up front. You'll be finished with the lease about the same time you're finished with vet school.

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Thanks to everyone for taking time to reply to my question!

A used 2011 Leaf costs about $14K here, while a 4y lease of a new Leaf would cost about $9600 (no more rebates in Oregon). If I understand this correctly, at the end of the lease, I've spent about $10K and have no car--I'd need to lease or buy another car. If I buy the used 2011 Leaf, I'd wind up spending another $6K to put in a new battery in about 4-5y, but then would be fine for another 8y or so.

used Leaf: $20K over 12y
leased Leaf: $10K every 4y ($30K over 12y, if lease continues to be cheap) OR $10K plus cost of new future Leaf $30k ($40K over 12y)

As someone who will be shouldering a lot of student debt, I'd like to be as frugal as possible. I don't mind having to plug in during the winter--I will get to campus early each day and there are many EVSEs. It seems that buying the used car would cost less money in the long-term. Have I missed an important factor?

FlybyNight17 said:

billg said:

drees said:

Another option is leasing - it will be cheap for 3 years and after 3 years gives you an easy opportunity to get into a newer LEAF with more range.

Click to expand...

I think this is good advice. You can get a brand new LEAF for about $200/mo with only your $2500 state rebate up front. You'll be finished with the lease about the same time you're finished with vet school.

Click to expand...

Thanks to everyone for taking time to reply to my question!

A used 2011 Leaf costs about $14K here, while a 4y lease of a new Leaf would cost about $9600 (no more rebates in Oregon). If I understand this correctly, at the end of the lease, I've spent about $10K and have no car--I'd need to lease or buy another car. If I buy the used 2011 Leaf, I'd wind up spending another $6K to put in a new battery in about 4-5y, but then would be fine for another 8y or so.

used Leaf: $20K over 12y
leased Leaf: $10K every 4y ($30K over 12y, if lease continues to be cheap) OR $10K plus cost of new future Leaf $30k ($40K over 12y)

As someone who will be shouldering a lot of student debt, I'd like to be as frugal as possible. I don't mind having to plug in during the winter--I will get to campus early each day and there are many EVSEs. It seems that buying the used car would cost less money in the long-term. Have I missed an important factor?

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Yes, if you love your leaf you don't re lease 2 more, you buy it out. The values will differ depending on where you are but a good rule of thumb is to buy it out at the end you have to spend 33 to 40% of the original value of the car. I'd guess it will be around $12k. The other advantage is spreading it out to get lower monthly payments and being able to pay down other debt. Usually a new car loan will have some of the lower interest rates out there so for the next 4 years you are leasing at that low rate. If you did $14k now (is that pre tax or would the finanaced amount be more?) at 5% it's $322.41 a month to pay it off in 4 years, $264 for 5. If in 2 years you find you need a new battery you can finance it, I think it's around $100 a month. So now your out of pocket is $364 to $422. If you can lease for $200 a month that's at least $64 a month you can pay down other debt with and as much as $222 less per month that you have to pay.

If you're student debt is anything like mine they are more forgiving if you want to lower/increase the payment (ie having a baby, switching jobs). A car payment is set. You have to make it every month so it's better to have that as the smaller payment.

When you sell it in 12 years it won't be worth a lot, but a 15 will be worth more than an 11, even if the 11 has a 10 year old battery. So if the numbers you gave had an 11 for $20k and a 15 leased for $10k then $12k buy out that's $2k diff. If the 15 is then worth $1k more then it's really only $1 out of pocket. If you never replace the battery in the 11 you'd be ahead. If you need to replace the battery in the 15 it will probably be 8+ years from now, in that case the new battery would probably factor in and get you a little bit more for the car.

Any advice beyond this and you really don't need to ask a car forum it's more for your accountant.

FlybyNight17 said:

A used 2011 Leaf costs about $14K here, while a 4y lease of a new Leaf would cost about $9600 (no more rebates in Oregon)

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Your profile says "Oakland, CA". My recommendation assumed that you would lease in California, not Oregon, and save $2,500.

Also, do you understand that if you lease from Nissan, they factor the $7,500 federal tax credit (plus extra) into the lease as a capitalized cost reduction and you get credit for that? That's why the lease payments are so low.

There are some pretty good deals on 2015 cars out there. New battery and new car warranty. Lease the car for 2 years and then see if you like it enough to buy it at the end of the lease. I checked this web site because these guys advertise on MNL. I am sure there are more specials out there besides this one.

See the LEAF ad at the bottom of the page.
http://www.boardwalknissan.com/specials/new.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you are certain that charging at school won't be an issue, then the used LEAF makes a lot of sense if you can get a good price. I would aim to get one that shows 12 capacity bars if possible (which should be doable in OR) and still be sure to get a QC port, they can be a real time saver.