Considering a Leaf: concern on 70-74 mile commute round trip

I'd love to hear your opinions please.
I've been reading up on theses forums and think I am right at the edge of the car's capacity.
I would really appreciate your advice.
Looking to lease a 2015 S or SV for 24 or 36 months- preferably 36.

~ 74 mile commute round trip:
Each leg consists of...
8 miles at 45-60 MPH (4-5 stops along the way if I catch lights. On the ride home I will have alot of time waiting at 2 of these lights)
25 miles of 55-60 MPH back country roads (w/ 2-4 stoplights) negligible elevation changes I think,
4 miles at 35-50 (city 4-5 lights).
No charging options along the way or at work.

I'm ok with learning hyperdrive skills.

"Hot"lanta, GA: Summer Ambient ~95F Winters down to Mid 20s.
Storage Outdoors full time, limited to no shade.

Can I reliably (and comfortably) use a leaf for this commute? I'm worried about needing AC in the summer and heat/window defrost in the winter.
Will winter temps be a concern on my range?
Will it be ok the first year and a concern the second or third year after battery degradation?
Will I need to charge near 100%?

Thank you so much for your thoughts.

you would be pushing the upper limits of the cars range, especially after a year+ of doing this.
If you cannot charge while at work the LEAF probably wouldn't be the car for you.
maybe the BMW I3 with the REX is the right car for you, the MB model B could also work and if you can survive with a Volt/ELR that car can do the trip burning no gas for the first 40 miles or so

^^^
Yep. Agree. From a guess about the climate, as mentioned, probably by the 2nd year, the trip will become dicey in the summer. And, in the winter, it will be dicey in winter by the 2nd winter, if it's very cold.

If the OP could charge at 120 volts all day @ work, or at least say 4+ hours once the trip becomes dicey due to battery degradation or weather, it'd be doable.

The SV could probably do it for maybe two years, with significant effort, including charging at work. Forget the S and its greedy heater. In that Summer heat, though, you would lose capacity fast, unless the '15 really does have a much better battery. I'm starting to sound like a broken record, but the Prius PHEV would net you excellent fuel economy, with much less worry about the battery (although I would lease that as well, not buy it). If you can charge at work the Volt is also an option worth considering. If you want an EV, then a Leaf SV with a two year lease is the affordable - but not effortless! - option.

I agree with the others. The current version of the Leaf is not for you. The trip would be do-able but not easy or comfortable the first year. After the first year, you would begin to have difficulty completing the commute without charging.

Newnan, Ga to Where?

Thanks everybody. I'm going to do a test run with a borrowed dealer car this weekend and see how it does (understanding the cold weather and degradation losses that will come into effect in the second year). Will report back how I did.

To answet the last question: It will be Sharpsburg, GA to Peachtree City, to Griffin and back.

What I didn't mention yet is that 90% of the time I will only have 16 mile commutes.
But my job may have me going to a second facility on occasion, without notice. So I need to be prepared to make the trip 100% of the time.
There is a charger on the way back in Griffin available but I'm not sure how long it will take to add enough charge to ensure the return trip.

I'm also checking with my employer on the possibility of plugging in somewhere. What do I need? a 30A dedicated 120 V line?

morrisdw said:

I'm also checking with my employer on the possibility of plugging in somewhere. What do I need? a 30A dedicated 120 V line?

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If you're going to be there all day, then a 15A outdoor 120V GFCI outlet would be fine. That would charge you back up about 32-35 miles of range in the 8 hours plugged in at work...bringing you to just about full again....

It's cheap, and they could do it with a high-quality extension cord (14Ga 50 ft, or 12Ga 100 ft)...

Pete.

Nope, you won't be able to Leaf it unless you get to charge. Your only options are MBB or Kia Soul.

morrisdw said:

There is a charger on the way back in Griffin available but I'm not sure how long it will take to add enough charge to ensure the return trip.

I'm also checking with my employer on the possibility of plugging in somewhere. What do I need? a 30A dedicated 120 V line?

Click to expand...

I wouldn't count on a single public charger at a business. Might have a car parked in front of it ("Ice'd"), or a car charging.


120V 15 A standard outlet on a dedicated circuit. You add about a mile of range every 12 minutes, or 5 miles of range per hour. Adds up over 8 hours, but probably a 5 hour charge is enough, even with a EOL battery.

Public charger will add more like a mile of range every 2.5 minutes or so, or 24 miles of range per hour.

You add about a mile of range every 12 minutes, or 5 miles of range per hour.

Click to expand...

That's 5% per hour. The range added will vary, but not the percentage.

morrisdw said:

Thanks everybody. I'm going to do a test run with a borrowed dealer car this weekend and see how it does (understanding the cold weather and degradation losses that will come into effect in the second year). Will report back how I did.

To answet the last question: It will be Sharpsburg, GA to Peachtree City, to Griffin and back.

What I didn't mention yet is that 90% of the time I will only have 16 mile commutes.
But my job may have me going to a second facility on occasion, without notice. So I need to be prepared to make the trip 100% of the time.
There is a charger on the way back in Griffin available but I'm not sure how long it will take to add enough charge to ensure the return trip.

I'm also checking with my employer on the possibility of plugging in somewhere. What do I need? a 30A dedicated 120 V line?

Click to expand...

The range debate continues...All I will add is that I average 75 miles per day (60% expressway/40% rural & city) without recharging on roughly 80% (+/- 2%) of the total battery capacity. Have repeated this daily for over 6,000 miles over 3 months without unmanageable range issues. Have I had to alter driving habits and/or route on a few (rare) days to make this work?...Yes. This is 2nd nature now. Nothing is 100% certain but have a personal sense this is very doable, if you have the determination to make this work. What I don't like is the lack of "Plan B" charging in this territory without going outside of your shortest path.

You are borrowing a dealer car for an extended test drive, was going to make this suggestion. My dealer extended the same arrangement in both a used 2012 and a new 2014. The '14 was no problem, the '12 was questionable but lacked the battery gauge to know what was happening with any level of accuracy.

A Level 2 (240v) with enough amperage to completely feed the 6.6 kW charger (slightly under 30 amps) will replenish @ 30% capacity per hour.

rogersleaf said:

The range debate continues...All I will add is that I average 75 miles per day (60% expressway/40% rural & city) without recharging on roughly 80% (+/- 2%) of the total battery capacity.

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In the summer, sure. Been driving a Leaf in winter much?

You all are a great help. Nope, not a Ga native... else it would be "Y'all".

See link for our monthly weather averages here in Newnan: http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/30263" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Our 2 coldest months average about 30-32F. Rare snow. it usually turns to ice for a couple days and everything shuts down.

At what temps do should I see lower performance on the Leaf? and how much of a reduction in range should I expect due to these temps?
There is a Nissan dealer in Griffin about 4 miles out of my way If I really needed to bump up in the winter. I just don't want the hassle.

Does the solar panel option help much? Heated seats and steering wheel run off the 12V battery mostly right?

morrisdw said:

You all are a great help. Nope, not a Ga native... else it would be "Y'all".

See link for our monthly weather averages here in Newnan: http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/30263" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Our 2 coldest months average about 30-32F. Rare snow. it usually turns to ice for a couple days and everything shuts down.

At what temps do should I see lower performance on the Leaf? and how much of a reduction in range should I expect due to these temps?
There is a Nissan dealer in Griffin about 4 miles out of my way If I really needed to bump up in the winter. I just don't want the hassle.

Does the solar panel option help much? Heated seats and steering wheel run off the 12V battery mostly right?

Click to expand...

The solar panel is a gimick. It's worthless when talking about range, it's almost like me saying the S will go further than the SL because it is 3243lbs instead of 3328lbs. With small things like that if the 2 cars drove side by side when they ran out of juice the drivers would probably be able to get out and still see each other. The 12v runs off the main battery so technically everything in the car runs off the main battery.

If you are willing to do it you can. I do a 90 mile round trip, I have level 1 at work for 10hrs. Like you sometimes I might go somewhere else that doesn't have a plug, I'm lucky that that place is accros the street from Mitsubishi's head office with a QC. The other day I drove my wife to a Dr apointment before work so when I went in I was there for a half day. Extra driving and only 5hrs at L1, I might have made it back but I swung out of the way for a L2 top up anyways, was only there 10 min. The total time you spend on L2 charging will probably be less than you would spend stopping for gas in a car all year, the downside is you'll spend that time spread over a few cold winter days instead of evenyly at the pump. I can easily do the 90 miles right now with no plug and on the highway at the speed limit. I checked on plugshare and saw the plug around you, if it's this one "EVSE on side of building next to Sherwin-Williams paint store. Location is accessible 24/7." I'd say if you're relying on that plug buy a J1772 extension. The plug is in a corner and only 1 spot can plug in. If you're ICE'd you can double park them and plug in and just stick with your car. I also wouldn't be surprised if that plug is there for an employee since it's tucked away. If so you should try to talk to them and ask them if you stop by and need a top up if they would be ok with you unplugging the car then replugging it in. The nissan dealer there isn't 24/7 and the plug share comment says it will usually be taken up by dealership cars.

Driving the dealers new demo car won't tell you much, I can pretty much guarantee that this time of year you'll do it in a 15 model. Unfortunetly the heater is too smart to trick it into driving like it's winter. If you crank it (and turn on the ac) and it's warm out it won't blow as hot as an ICE would and it won't use much power. Do they have a used one you can borrow?

From the numbers you've given me I'd say go for it, you may have to do some smart route planning, if you slow down and get off the highway you can really extend the range and it might get you there quicker than stopping for a charge then going back on a highway.

Also I checked using plugshare.com and between Newnan and Griffin and there are 2 homes in Peachtree city that will offer up a J1772 plug. It's definetly something you don't want to ever use, but you know if the S hits the fan they have said EV owners can call them. There's also a 120v plug at the Braelinn Village shopping centre, 548 Crosstown Road.

morrisdw said:

At what temps do should I see lower performance on the Leaf? and how much of a reduction in range should I expect due to these temps?
... Does the solar panel option help much? Heated seats and steering wheel run off the 12V battery mostly right?

Click to expand...

The "solar panel" does nothing for range. It very slowly trickle charges the 12 volt battery. Mostly a marketing gimmick.

The LEAF will lose about 1% capacity per 4F degrees below 70F. Therefore, at 30F battery temperature, expect a 10% loss of capacity.

The bigger issue is the cabin heater. The 2013 and newer LEAF is available with a more efficient heat pump heater / air conditioner or pure resistance heater (2011-2012 only had the latter). The heater will REALLY suck the power, so I strongly recommend a cabin preheat whilst still plugged in.

In a nut shell:

1) when cold, pre-heat with onboard timer or with mobile app

2) the air conditioner is more efficient with the resistance heater (this may be more important where you live)

3) the heater is more efficient than the heat pump

4) the 12 volt battery does indeed power the seats and steering wheel, but the main "traction battery" powers the 12 volt.

5) with pre-heat on a cold morning, the seat heater and steering wheel heater is the most efficient way to stay warm (heater off)

Here's how bad the range can get with a seriously degraded battery:




Number 14 is the degradation gauge:

If you can convince your employer to install an L2 charger, you'd probably never have a worry about the commute.

WetEV said:

rogersleaf said:

The range debate continues...All I will add is that I average 75 miles per day (60% expressway/40% rural & city) without recharging on roughly 80% (+/- 2%) of the total battery capacity.

Click to expand...

In the summer, sure. Been driving a Leaf in winter much?

Click to expand...

You beat me to it WetEV!

morrisdw said:

At what temps do should I see lower performance on the Leaf? and how much of a reduction in range should I expect due to these temps?
There is a Nissan dealer in Griffin about 4 miles out of my way If I really needed to bump up in the winter. I just don't want the hassle.

Does the solar panel option help much? Heated seats and steering wheel run off the 12V battery mostly right?

Click to expand...

Tony Williams already covered this well (I agree: preheat while plugged-in and use steering wheel and seat heaters. Also, use the defroster only as needed and try to see if it will work with the heat off.) But so far as the battery temperature is concerned, it makes a difference if the car is garaged. If the car is in an attached garage it is likely that it won't get anywhere near to ambient temperature overnight. And that means that the battery will be warmer than the overnight low. Also, charging and driving will tend to warm up the battery somewhat unless ambient temperature is substantially less than the battery temp. All of which is to say that the range hit due to a cold battery won't necessarily be as severe as it might seem by looking at the outside thermometer.

But cold air is more dense, cold tires and gear lube cause more rolling resistance, as do rain and snow. 70 miles, even in a mild Georgia winter, is going to be difficult without some extra charging during the day at times. You will need to be committed to make it work. I think you now have a pretty good idea of what it takes, so it's up to you.