winter driving

New 2015 S owner here. Wondering how the Leaf handles in the snow and ice? Also, I have read the range can get as bad as 30-35 miles in cold weather?? How about in 0-32F type cold? I kept my old maxima for now, not sure if I will sell it or not, might see how winter goes first. Love ev driving so far!

Welcome aboard new Leafer!
It will help to know the geographic location to assess your personal winter range.
I live in NW Illinois, and my range over the bitter cold winter was reduced, but it can be (and was) mitigated with judicious driving, warm clothing and blankets, and pre-heating the car while charging. I lost about 25 miles (from my usual 100+ GOM) range, but I still could make 65+ miles even below freezing. I just drive a lot slower than most people to begin with, and don't use heat except to keep the windshield defrosted. There is a temperature adjustment on bottom of the range chart here:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=101293

Nfuzzy said:

New 2015 S owner here. Wondering how the Leaf handles in the snow and ice? Also, I have read the range can get as bad as 30-35 miles in cold weather?? How about in 0-32F type cold? I kept my old maxima for now, not sure if I will sell it or not, might see how winter goes first. Love ev driving so far!

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With the stock all-season, low-resistance tires it's mediocre in the snow. Not horrible, as it has a low center of gravity and really good torque when starting up, but not a lot of traction.

Throw on snow tires and it's about as good as a front wheel drive car can be. Unfortunately, those snow tires add resistance and are going to drop range by 10% before you consider discounts for the cold weather. Even without the heater running cold taxes the range, and extreme cold (0F) really hurts. The resistance heater on the S model is an energy hog so if you choose to engage that you'll get even less range. With snow tires I do see a drop of up to 40% - on the coldest days - relative to the range in the summer.

Thanks for the info! I am in Colorado Springs, glad to hear some local feedback.

Throw on snow tires and it's about as good as a front wheel drive car can be. Unfortunately, those snow tires add resistance and are going to drop range by 10% before you consider discounts for the cold weather.

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I put Pirelli "Carving Edge" snow tires on for last Winter. They are *very* loud, and handling in snow and ice is mediocre without the optional studs, but they do provide snow tire type handling as opposed to all-seasons, and the rolling resistance is low. I was getting 4.4 M/KWH with the Ecopias, and in similarly warm weather the Pirellis yielded 4.3. In actual Winter weather, the combination of cold, snow/slush and rolling resistance yielded 3.5 or so. So don't think that snow tires aren't an option. Oh, and my range in Upstate NY never dropped below 45 miles, and was usually over 50 - actual estimate by me, not the 'Guess O Meter'. Hills (and mountains!) however, may well drop the range into the 30s in the worst weather.

On my brand new 2014 with smart use of heat I could still do around 100km (65 miles) even down to -20c (-4f). Preheating off the grid helps. This summer I have done trips up to 150km (93miles) no problem so that gives you an idea of range loss.

As for how it drives - I am leasing and didn't want to get snow tires unless I absolutely had to. I found the car decent in the snow especially considering the tires on it. I find it better then a lot of other cars with all seasons on it because of the weight and low center of gravity. I was given a loaner Versa with all seasons and drove that in a snow storm and it was horrible in comparison.

A drop of around 25-30% is average in biting cold. Handling is OK on ice, can't speak much for the snow as we mostly have ice here. But even with just the stock tires, I had more control than I did on other cars. The heat pump plus the heated seats/steering help a bunch to keep energy use low.

The answers are both "it depends". It's as good as any FWD in all seasons in the snow and ice (NY state and Indiana with the Leaf, but lived in MN for 15 yrs so I know winter) and better than most thanks to weight distribution. Have to bear the torque "curve" in mind though - different from ICEV. Setting off quickly into an immediate turn needs a bit of caution on ice. Tires aren't great, but have served me for three winters just fine.

As for range those estimates to me are either worst case degradation or worst case driving or both. I charge to 80%, have a 2.5 yr degradation battery, and have never failed to comfortably drive 45 miles (3 days commuting for me) without even seeing VLB. But I don't have a lot of the things that sap range the most My commute is 1/2 35mph and 1/2 50mph, basically flat. Neither do I blast cabin heat to max or 80+. I rely on the heated seats and wheel as much as possible, needing cabin heat only below 35 or so and that set low - just enough to be comfy, not overly warm (I'm wearing winter clothes for when I park, why would I want an 80 degree car wearing an insulated jacket and gloves?). Typical winters here have weeks below freezing, but rarely below 0, maybe 5 times a year. Typically at the coldest I commute in single digits but mostly teens and 20s.

Nfuzzy said:

Also, I have read the range can get as bad as 30-35 miles in cold weather??

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You'd have to *really* be trying hard in order to bring the range down that far. Like blasting the heat, driving fresh un-plowed roads, etc.

I have a 2.5yo car, and I was still able to make my 60 mile round-trip commute on a single charge in below -10°F weather this past winter. To do so, I don't use heat (only seat & steering wheel), bundle up, and keep my speed down.

garsh said:

Nfuzzy said:

Also, I have read the range can get as bad as 30-35 miles in cold weather??

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You'd have to *really* be trying hard in order to bring the range down that far. Like blasting the heat, driving fresh un-plowed roads, etc.

I have a 2.5yo car, and I was still able to make my 60 mile round-trip commute on a single charge in below -10°F weather this past winter. To do so, I don't use heat (only seat & steering wheel), bundle up, and keep my speed down.

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This. Nfuzzy has an advantage being in Colorado Springs. In sunny but cold weather, driving without using the heater is easy. A lot of it depends on how one dresses; I dress for winter and find that preheating plus steering wheel heater is plenty for comfort for a hour or so. If you want to dress in shorts and a T-shirt in winter then that isn't likely to cut it.

Cold reduces range. And driving on snow reduces range, but roads get plowed, and melt down to bare pavement, so quickly in our state that driving on snow doesn't happen much unless driving in an actual snowstorm. That's different from those who live in the frozen north.

If range isn't limiting you can blast the heater all you want. If range is limiting you might want to slow down and use the cabin heater judiciously or not at all. If you absolutely have to drive on snow regularly you might want to go with snow tires. Do you do that with the Maxima now? If you can wait until the roads get plowed before venturing out, you can get by without snow tires, except on steep hills (although you might want to carry chains). As others have said, the LEAF handles well on snow (but it isn't the same as having 4WD).

It's getting a bit tiresome seeing people write about don't 'dress in shorts and a T-shirt' and 'blast the heater'. The oddballs are the ones who drive with no cabin heat, not those who prefer not to freeze in Winter. The best advice is to tell people how to drive efficiently with the heater on, not berating them for using it at all.

* Keep the thermostat set no higher than 70F, and lower if you can, in frigid weather. Set it for comfort in mild weather, but having it really high will just make it seem colder in frigid conditions. My usual setting is 73-76F, and I have bad circulation.

* Keep the blower on the lowest or next to lowest speed. The higher the fan speed, the more air gets heated and the more power used. Again, in mild weather feel free to raise the fan setting!

* Use a fleece throw blanket (and better yet, a 12 volt heated throw) to reduce the need for cabin heat.

* Use Eco mode to reduce heater power consumption. It's sometimes more effective to heat the cabin in Normal mode, then maintain the temp in Eco mode.

This past winter, my LEAF saw -15F temperatures and record snowfall for my region. If I got 40 mile range on a 100% charge in Eco mode with heat at 70F, I considered that good. Keep in mind that many LEAF owners will comment on cold weather range without ever experiencing a cold battery. The temperature of the battery makes a significant impact on range and recharge time. If they didn't have 0 battery temp bars, take what they say with a grain of salt.

Pro-tips:
-A quick charge once or twice a week can heat up the battery pack. The mass of the pack will retain much of that heat for several days. Hotter battery means more range and faster charging through the week.
-Park in a garage, even if it's not heated. You'll lose less energy pre-heating, and your battery will stay marginally warmer inside than exposed.
-Adjust your charge timer to end as close as possible to the time when you leave, to keep your pack warmer for your commute.
-Don't be afraid to use the heated seats and heated steering wheel. Heating your body directly is more efficient than heating the air in the cabin.
-If you see snow, think about buying dedicated snow tires.

dgpcolorado is right that this is not something I have to worry about often here. We will only get a handful of days per winter that I may even have to think twice about blasting heat to conserve range.

My roundtrip commute is only 30 miles but I can't charge at work and the car will be sitting outside for the 9 hours or so workday so I wasn't sure if I'd see much range drop just having it parked out in the cold all day.

Keep in mind that many LEAF owners will comment on cold weather range without ever experiencing a cold battery. The temperature of the battery makes a significant impact on range and recharge time.

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This is a good point. In my experience, though, with a car parked outdoors, with the North and West winds hitting it right off the Hudson River, the pack never hit zero bars. Why? I use L-1 charging, and that seems to make a pretty good battery warmer. The car's onboard battery heater only came on two or three times all of a very cold, long Winter. Someone with two Leafs should compare battery temps in the same parking area, using L-1 for one and L-2 for the other.

Nfuzzy said:

dgpcolorado is right that this is not something I have to worry about often here. We will only get a handful of days per winter that I may even have to think twice about blasting heat to conserve range.

My roundtrip commute is only 30 miles but I can't charge at work and the car will be sitting outside for the 9 hours or so workday so I wasn't sure if I'd see much range drop just having it parked out in the cold all day.

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Short answer: not much range drop with the car sitting for just nine hours at typical Colorado Springs winter daytime temperatures. Thirty miles round trip is easy in winter in Colorado. You can even preheat the car remotely (assuming an SV/SL model with Carwings) before you head home and get into a warm car!

The battery has a lot of thermal mass and cools (and heats) slowly by conduction. Charging heats the battery. Driving heats the battery, especially at high kW discharge rates (freeway speeds or climbing steep hills). So, by the time you get to work your battery will likely be warmed up somewhat from the ambient temperature. Then it will cool off slowly from there on cold days.

If you keep the car in an attached garage at home it will likely stay fairly warm overnight (at or above freezing, although it depends on the garage). If you park outside, then the occasional below zero night will get the battery pretty cold unless you are charging. The battery doesn't charge well when it is around 0ºF or below (the battery heater comes on at a battery temperature of -4ºF and turns off at 14ºF, last I heard).

For the folks in other states, who routinely deal with below zero for days at a time, it can be a problem. In sunny Colorado? Not so much. The battery just isn't likely to get all that cold if you are charging and driving the car regularly.

That said, a cold battery will have reduced capacity compared to a warm one. And cold air is more dense than warm air, meaning greater drag. And cold tires and gear lube mean greater rolling resistance. Add it all up and the range is reduced in cold weather versus warm weather. However, on the plus side of the ledger you are at fairly high altitude in CS* and that means significantly reduced aerodynamic drag, compared to low elevation parts of the country. That's why we get better range (and gas mileage) here in Colorado than those in most other parts of the country, at a given temperature. (When not driving up and down mountains, that is...)


* The air is about 20% less dense in CS versus sea level, at the same temperature.

Between the sun, the heated wheel and seats, and my warm blood I'll probably be one of those crazy leafers that never runs the heat anyway. Bring on winter!

Anyone want a Maxima?

It was really cold and snowy in MI this year. I refuse to drive without heat. I tried it and hated it (even with my best boots, jacket, gloves, and hat). I dont want to dress like an Eskimo or do anything special just because I drive a Leaf. Therefore my range is 45 miles or so in frigid conditions. Obviously if conditionts are warmer than frigid range improves.

It drives fine in the ice and snow if you are used to driving in those conditions. I drive a completley stock 2013 SV. It felt no different than any other FWD car of similar size and clerance. There was only 1 day I took my wifes KIA SUV instead of the Leaf - I got all the way to work and they called me to tell me it was closed just as I pulled up. Besides... if I am worried about getting stuck I would just call in - common at my workplace.

The only possibly-discernable difference in driving a Leaf - especially without snows - is that since it's heavier than most cars its size, it will tend to slide a little farther when stopping or turning. My non-studded, hard-compund snow tires did allow a fair amount of sliding, which may be because of the weight. At least it's low down, under the floor. If I could easily afford it I'd definitelly use soft compound snow tires designed for both snow and ice.

I was thrilled with the way my leaf handled the snow last winter. such smooth electric traction free of power pulses. if the tires do start to break the traction system adjusts the force as necessary with great precision. I couldn't believe the hills I could climb in the snow.

LeftieBiker said:

The only possibly-discernable difference in driving a Leaf - especially without snows - is that since it's heavier than most cars its size, it will tend to slide a little farther when stopping or turning. My non-studded, hard-compund snow tires did allow a fair amount of sliding, which may be because of the weight. At least it's low down, under the floor. If I could easily afford it I'd definitelly use soft compound snow tires designed for both snow and ice.

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It's more than that. In Eco mode the heavy regenerative braking action helps a ton going down slippery slopes. The terrific low speed traction for the Electric motor really helps powering up hills that have several inches of snow. We often switch to D mode uphill. One other factor is that, unlike some Eco cars I could mention (cough ... Prius ... cough) you can turn off traction control, which is essential when stuck and only one front wheel has good traction.