Contemplating Leaf lease; want to be sure covered all bases!

We are close to leasing a LEAF SV, and just wanting to be sure we've thought through everything as we transition to an EV. Would love any feedback/thoughts!

Some basics:

- We live in the SF Bay Area so there are many public chargers nearby. We plan to install a Level 2 charger in our garage (probably the 30A AeroVironment one; looking at Bosch too but concerned about reports of overheating/fire?) and live a couple of blocks from our local Nissan dealer, so should have Level 3 access there if needed. We drive 10-15 miles a day on average (4-5K miles a year). We belong to a carshare and can get non-electric cars there for longer trips, and already rent for long-distance travel. So I think we're covered on it being a reasonable fit for our driving patterns and on charging/range. Sound right?

- This will be our only car, replacing a 2001 Prius. We need to put two small children in car seats and one big dog in the cargo area. From my research and from our visits to the dealer, looks like this is feasible. (We will be taking our dog for a test ride soon to be sure he fits!) Anyone have any personal experience with similar combos? Warnings or advice?

- Our dealer has said that 2015 models are expected in sometime in the next month or two. I know there aren't huge changes expected, but is it a good bet that there may still be some decent lease deals on the 2014 stock once the 2015s are on the floor? Our timing is flexible--we'd like to be in the new car by the end of the year, but are open to doing it sooner if our best options for good lease deals may be in the summer rather than at the year's end. Just not sure how Nissan typically rolls on this, or if it's not especially relevant for leases anyway. We are doing a three-year lease and do not expect to buy the car at the end of the lease, so less concerned about the residual than about the monthly cost and downpayment.

- And last but not least (though not sure this is the place to ask!)--we've looked at but ruled out pretty much all of the other EVs or plug-in vehicles out there, mostly for cargo space issues (won't accommodate dog, since most of the hatchbacks are too shallow). Only one still in serious contention is the Prius Plug-In; while we would likely buy this one, the lease is less than the LEAF lease right now and might make sense, and we're coming off of a very good experience with the first generation Prius. With the major Prius revision planned for 2015, there might be some good deals on the 2014s once the 2015s are released. Anyone have any experience with the LEAF vs. the Prius Plug-In? Pros and cons to each (apart from the major system differences of true EV vs. hybrid EV)?

Thank you!!

If you are only driving 10/20 miles a day, Why bother with the expense of the L2 Charger @ home. Sound like you can charge one or two times a week (Mostly) for free.

I can charge @ work, you need to weight off the convenience of charging @ home / cost of unit/power, vs. hang around somewhere for few hours while you charge up on a L2. (and are you going to wind up spending more money during that "Charge" time eating/shopping that you would not normally do.

Guy at work just bought a plug in Prius and really likes it. The short range about gets him to work then charge and goes home.
Seems to work well for short distance. Either way I agree no need to hurry and get L2.

Thanks! Was thinking L2 charger in large part because we have no spare outlet at all there right now, so figured we'd have our electrician go ahead and put in 240V instead of 120V in, and then it might make more sense to just spend the money on the 30A charger now. But maybe not? We'll have to revisit when we make a final decision on the car.

We have both a Leaf SV and a Prius PHEV. With your short drives the Prius (aka PIP) might well let you drive almost all the time in EV mode. However, while the PIP's A/C runs off the battery pack, if you want heat the engine must start, warm up, and then run occasionally to keep the coolant hot. If you don't care much about heat, the PIP will do all you want, with no need to use another car, and with a bit more interior space (although I prefer my Leaf's front passenger area to my housemate's PIP's front cabin). If you really want to drive an EV, though, the Prius will eventually frustrate you. It was designed to be a 'Super Hybrid' more than a part-time EV, and can get astronomical MPG numbers.

In short, if you want a family EV, lease the Leaf. If you want a great family car that uses very little gas, lease or (better yet) buy the PIP. Just don't buy a Leaf unless you are willing to accept that it will lose substantial range over its lifetime. In your case, that might not matter nearly as much as it usually does.

artemis said:

Thanks! Was thinking L2 charger in large part because we have no spare outlet at all there right now, so figured we'd have our electrician go ahead and put in 240V instead of 120V in, and then it might make more sense to just spend the money on the 30A charger now. But maybe not? We'll have to revisit when we make a final decision on the car.

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Assuming your present electric service has the capacity for it, yes it will cost about the same to put in a 240V 40A circuit as a standard 120V 15A circuit. Any cost difference will be due to the use of a thicker gauge wire for the 240 volt circuit. Labor, the single highest cost, will be the same.

If you do end up getting a PHEV instead of a BEV, it will still be useful. Although 40A is far more than needed for a PHEV, you never know what you will get in the future, so definitely future-proof yourself to extent allowed by your budget.

artemis said:

We drive 10-15 miles a day on average (4-5K miles a year). We belong to a carshare and can get non-electric cars there for longer trips, and already rent for long-distance travel. So I think we're covered on it being a reasonable fit for our driving patterns and on charging/range. Sound right?
...
We need to put two small children in car seats and one big dog in the cargo area.

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What about weekend travel ?

Not sure how small your children are, but a lot of us have Leaf and small children - it is a great combo. No need to take the kids to the gas station and have them inhale all those toxic fuels. Also useful when you want to drive around to put them to sleep

Thanks! Yes, we have an open slot and capacity on our panel to accommodate 240V so we're good there. Kids are tiny (will be newborn and three--replacing the Prius primarily because both kids plus dog do not fit in a sedan!) so while we take some weekend trips, they tend to be local. We already rent cars for things like trips to Tahoe or Southern California since our current car does not handle those distances/terrains well, so we anticipate continuing to do the same if we get an EV--although one point in favor of the PHEV is that it would eliminate the need to do this. But since that's 2-3x a year max and amounts to maybe $500-$700 annually in rental costs, it's not a huge factor either way, especially since neither car is going to take a lot of gear with the dog in the mix, so we may just need to resign ourselves to renting minivans for longer trips at this stage...

artemis said:

- . . . I think we're covered on it being a reasonable fit for our driving patterns and on charging/range. Sound right?

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Yep.

artemis said:

We need to put two small children in car seats and one big dog in the cargo area. . . .Warnings or advice?

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I have a 2 y.o. and a 4 y.o. in car seats. They fit perfectly in the back seat. The back is passable-but-not-huge for adults (adults may bump their head on the upper door jamb when stepping in), but perfect for kids. One suggestion:
Kids in car seats will tend to kick the back of the front passenger seats. If they have dirty/dusty shoes, this will show annoyingly on the back of the front passenger seats. I'd recommend seat covers.

The rear cargo area is significant. We have a small dog (~20 lbs) that we put in the back middle seat in a seat-belt. I'd imagine any dog <80 lbs or so would have plenty of room in the rear cargo area.

I do a 50 mile RT commute daily on 120v and have only rarely been short on charge (forcing me to use an ICE car in the family -- not stranding me). From your description AND the plethora of L2 and L3 options, I would not bother with an L2. In fact, a heavy duty extension cord might be the answer if there is a 120v anywhere reasonably close.

If you are OK with renting for excursions, that takes away 1 of the big selling points for the PIP Prius. Of course, there are "spur of the moment" and "emergency" situations, but they can be addressed.

I'll just go contrary to some of the other advice here and argue for installing the L2 charger (EVSE) at home as planned. It's a really nice convenience to have the car able to fully charge quickly and you'll probably find having the L2 means you use the LEAF even more often. Given your location in the bay area and overall trends, the home EVSE will be useful for many years and is an attractive feature should you ever sell your house.

cgaydos said:

I'll just go contrary to some of the other advice here and argue for installing the L2 charger (EVSE) at home as planned. It's a really nice convenience to have the car able to fully charge quickly and you'll probably find having the L2 means you use the LEAF even more often. Given your location in the bay area and overall trends, the home EVSE will be useful for many years and is an attractive feature should you ever sell your house.

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Hi, Newbie here. I'm wondering why anyone puts in a wall charger when you can get a variety of chargers like the turbo cord and just plug it into your new 240V wall socket and take it with you if you're going somewhere with a 240V plug

NorcalGuy said:

cgaydos said:

I'll just go contrary to some of the other advice here and argue for installing the L2 charger (EVSE) at home as planned. It's a really nice convenience to have the car able to fully charge quickly and you'll probably find having the L2 means you use the LEAF even more often. Given your location in the bay area and overall trends, the home EVSE will be useful for many years and is an attractive feature should you ever sell your house.

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Hi, Newbie here. I'm wondering why anyone puts in a wall charger when you can get a variety of chargers like the turbo cord and just plug it into your new 240V wall socket and take it with you if you're going somewhere with a 240V plug

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Personally, I like the convenience of not having to coil & pack the cord every day. Handling a dirty cord in a shirt & tie is not convenient. Wall mounted units tend to have higher wattage delivery which is useful if your LEAF is capable of accepting 6.6kW. Repeated plugging & unplugging a 240v plug connection tends to eventually cause plug and receptacle failure, and the possible risk of fire. I would also like a portable L2, but will likely have the evupgrade done to my factory brick. However, the main location that I could use a portable 240v on a regular basis will likely install a wall unit after I asked.

NorcalGuy said:

Hi, Newbie here. I'm wondering why anyone puts in a wall charger when you can get a variety of chargers like the turbo cord and just plug it into your new 240V wall socket and take it with you if you're going somewhere with a 240V plug

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1. TurboCord only outputs a maximum of 16 amps at 240 volts. If you have a Leaf with the 6.6 kW on board charger, you're charging it no faster than one with the slower charger.

2. Some municipalities, including mine, mandate that EVSEs be hard-wired. If your utility is giving you a discounted rate (particularly during peak hours) for your EVSE via the use of a dedicated meter, they may also want the EVSE to be hard-wired so you don't plug something else in there like a dryer or air conditioner.

Few points to consider..

Did you look at buying?? the 5 year battery capacity warranty and 8 year battery warranty it makes sense as you can keep this car for very long and beat out any lease deal out there. NMAC discounts and 0% on 60 months make it compelling too. Also just last week Nissan released new battery pricing... that is also a positive for a buy. On top of it you daily distance is less than mine too.. so it will work out quite perfect. Here is the deal I got in Bay Area...

I purchased mine.. not leased on 5/25
2014 NISSAN LEAF® SV $32,000 * BASE MSRP
LED Headlights and Quick Charge Port Package $1,630
Splash Guards (4-piece set) $150
Carpeted Cargo and Floor Mats $170
Holographic Kick Plates (2-piece set) $130
Rear Cargo Cover $300
Cargo Net $25
Destination & Handling $850
TOTAL MSRP $35,255
I got this car for 28,000 before taxes and title registration but after dealer discount and NMAC 0% 60 month loan discount
Have applied for the 2,500 CA refund and looking forward to the Fed tax rebate of $7500 ..
Boardwalk Nissan in Redwood City Bay Area California

For the EVSE
Here is what I did.. for $25 you can have a 12A 240V charger which will be more than enough for your needs of such low mileage driving. This will land in the 3.3Kw (actually a bit less). For example if the trickle charger says you need 5 hrs for charging to full. The 12A 240V will be done in about 2 hours time or less. It is much more than twice faster... You will find this more than enough for your needs. My daily drive is 32-35 miles and this is more than enough to replenish. Also do check you work may have free changing .. I have that too. Being close to Nissan dealership makes it even easier for you.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=16948" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I also installed the 240V point in my garage on my own. It is very easy.. look up some you tube video's and they can teach you the same. Luckily my Breaker box was in my Garage too. So all I needed was a outdoor 4 wire AWG 10 a L14-30R and an outdoor box with lid(Lowes).
Double 30AMP Breakers (Lowes). This whole thing cost me less than $40. You will need to make space in your breaker box and need 2 contiguous slots in the breaker box to get the two phases of 120V + 120V. Very easy if you can turn off current to your breaker box and watch some you tubes.. and understand what you are doing. The breaker are just insert and lock...

Of course you can spend the $287 and send your EVSE for an upgrade to EVSEupgrade.com and get a high power which can go unto 30A.

Hope this helps.. we have had out car for 5 weeks and just love it..

In terms of when to buy, it *seems* like they are definitely trying to move out the 2014's before the 2015's come in. We were in the same boat in terms of timing (not in a hurry). I thought about waiting for the 2015's to come in and snatch up a left-over 2014 for cheap. But, it seemed like they are willing to bargain now, the dealer we were looking (Burlingame) at had over 25 Leaf's a week ago but as of today they only had 2 left, so I caved and decided to buy now.

So I would look at big dealers with a lot of inventory left. They would probably be the most motivated to sell/lease closest to their cost. Another strategy might be to look at what model they have a lot of. For example at San Francisco Nissan, we were looking for a Leaf-S with a quick charge package. They only had one of those in stock, so they weren't willing to match offers. But they did have over a dozen SV's, so he kept saying they'd have more room to negotiate on those. Good luck!

i thought i would be getting the full $7500 back from IRS but not so.
using 2013 income i verified using turbo tax, only getting $3300 due to AMT. Now knowing this, least is a better option for me sine the full $7500 will be used to reduce monthly payment.