New owner of a Slightly (andhopefully gently) used 2011 Leaf

Hi all, just a quick post to say thanks for the oodles of information I've already found, and in part thanks to that information I've just put money down on a 2011 Leaf, all of 1200 miles, maybe a fairly early VIN (00013x) - looks like it was a loaner or training demo car, and as I am the first to title the car I might be good on the tax credit, too (crossing my fingers). Shaws all 12 bars on the battery, and I've ordered a scanner for LeafSpy.

I'm sure I'll post more in the right places once I start figuring out what I don't know yet

Hi, and welcome to the forum.

First, please edit your profile to say where you are located. It makes answering your posts much easier as many of the LEAF experiences (access to public charging, battery degradation, etc.) are linked to location.

Second, well, tell us: What did you pay for your used LEAF? What was in the CarFax report? Etc.

Shaun said:

Hi all, just a quick post to say thanks for the oodles of information I've already found, and in part thanks to that information I've just put money down on a 2011 Leaf, all of 1200 miles, maybe a fairly early VIN (00013x) - looks like it was a loaner or training demo car, and as I am the first to title the car I might be good on the tax credit, too

Click to expand...

Whoa. I just re-read and realized what you said. Wow - if this is technically a "new" car you may have a real steal after tax credits. I personally bought a demo 2011 from an out-of-state dealer in March 2013 and got all the relevant tax credits, resulting in a net buyer's cost under $9k. So I know it can be done. But I had thought that all "new" 2011s were gone by now. Anyway, please post more details - if you do have a "new" 2011 you have some special tax considerations.

I'm in Minneapolis, MN.

Wayzata Nissan seems to have purchased a batch of demo cars at auction, carfax had only the auction record "Sold at auction as a manufacturer vehicle" from about a month ago, so I am hopeful that indeed I should be eligible for the federal credit, which will put me into a 2011 SL for less what I was thinking about paying for a new i-Miev. There is apparently no MN specific credit.

It only has 1200 miles on it and is showing a full 12 bars, has been good in all my test drives, and I am crossing my fingers that when I take it in to Morrie's Nissan (Wayzata Nissan appears not to have certified Leaf mechanics) to get the battery inspection done it'll come up clean. I should take delivery in a day or two.

Now, I've seen at least one post suggesting a dealer can reset the in-service date for the first owner on a demo, and if so I'd be pleased, but right now it's a 12/15/10 in secvice date, which makes me wonder just how early it was. I'm still playing catchup on Leaf history.

If it has a December 2010 in-service date it would be one of the earliest ones shipped to the US. That's the same month the very first US owners/lessees got their cars.

Shaun said:

Now, I've seen at least one post suggesting a dealer can reset the in-service date for the first owner on a demo, and if so I'd be pleased, but right now it's a 12/15/10 in secvice date, which makes me wonder just how early it was. I'm still playing catchup on Leaf history.

Click to expand...

Possibly a Nissan 'Drive Electric' Tour vehicle?
Tour started October 1, 2010 and went through June 2011, and may have been later than that. Hard to find details on old events.
See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1164#p20620" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
Always wondered what happened to the Tour vehicles.
But surprised they would still be around being sold off in spring 2014?

TimLee said:

Shaun said:

Now, I've seen at least one post suggesting a dealer can reset the in-service date for the first owner on a demo, and if so I'd be pleased, but right now it's a 12/15/10 in secvice date, which makes me wonder just how early it was. I'm still playing catchup on Leaf history.

Click to expand...

Possibly a Nissan 'Drive Electric' Tour vehicle?
Tour started October 1, 2010 and went through June 2011, and may have been later than that. Hard to find details on old events.
See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1164#p20620" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
Always wondered what happened to the Tour vehicles.
But surprised they would still be around being sold off in spring 2014?

Click to expand...

Good point. I first test drove a LEAF at the tour event in Colorado in September 2011, and I thought they had a number of stops after that.

Shaun said:

I'm in Minneapolis, MN.

Wayzata Nissan seems to have purchased a batch of demo cars at auction, carfax had only the auction record "Sold at auction as a manufacturer vehicle" from about a month ago, so I am hopeful that indeed I should be eligible for the federal credit, which will put me into a 2011 SL for less what I was thinking about paying for a new i-Miev. There is apparently no MN specific credit.

It only has 1200 miles on it and is showing a full 12 bars, has been good in all my test drives, and I am crossing my fingers that when I take it in to Morrie's Nissan (Wayzata Nissan appears not to have certified Leaf mechanics) to get the battery inspection done it'll come up clean. I should take delivery in a day or two.

Now, I've seen at least one post suggesting a dealer can reset the in-service date for the first owner on a demo, and if so I'd be pleased, but right now it's a 12/15/10 in secvice date, which makes me wonder just how early it was. I'm still playing catchup on Leaf history.

Click to expand...

As for the reset on the warranty date - it does seem to be possible. Mine was a demo (actually said that clearly on the sticker) that started service in October 2011, but when I asked about the in-service date from my local dealer he told me it was reset to the day I bought the vehicle, 1.5 years later. I'd definitely ask for that - at that point your risk of a problem with the car is minimal.

My understanding of the "Drive Electric" cars (with the 562 license plate) couldn't be sold as they were made before the safety tests were completed. Now, whether they could be validated after the fact is not something I know. I do know that I saw a photo of a pile (as in three deep!) of LEAFs--maybe on Autobeyours web site--sporting that same plate. Thus my impression that they scrapped them all. You never know, though.

As to your new EV, of course the battery is the main concern. These batteries age over time ("calendar aging") so in all likelyhood, the "12 full bars" will be more like 11 and a half (I'm being optimistic). There's also the possibility of an unscrupulous dealer resetting the measurements, so you don't see the real condition for awhile. In any case, I would really like to know what you see when you get the LEAF Spy up and running!

However it turns out, I think you got a much nicer car than an iMiev!

---
I subsequently found the photo, and they are only 2-deep. Moreover, no plates on any of 'em. So my recollection was faulty. I think I posted and was asking if they could be those 562 cars. This was in 2011 and LEAFs hadn't been around very long. It was kind of surprising to see a pile of discarded LEAFs so early on.

Hi all, just a quick post to say thanks for the oodles of information I've already found, and in part thanks to that information I've just put money down on a 2011 Leaf, all of 1200 miles, maybe a fairly early VIN (00013x) - looks like it was a loaner or training demo car, and as I am the first to title the car I might be good on the tax credit, too

Click to expand...

A "new" 2011 with 1200 miles is pretty cool.
Just FYI regarding the FED Tax Credit.
Technically, the vehicle must:

1) have never been previously titled,
2) been put in service in the tax year filing,
3) and have LESS THAN 500 MILES on it.

I'm not saying you couldn't try, but thems the rules, and if they look into it.......
Still very cool
With all the 2013 problems, I'm happy with my 2012

KillaWhat said:

Hi all, just a quick post to say thanks for the oodles of information I've already found, and in part thanks to that information I've just put money down on a 2011 Leaf, all of 1200 miles, maybe a fairly early VIN (00013x) - looks like it was a loaner or training demo car, and as I am the first to title the car I might be good on the tax credit, too

Click to expand...

A "new" 2011 with 1200 miles is pretty cool.
Just FYI regarding the FED Tax Credit.
Technically, the vehicle must:

1) have never been previously titled,
2) been put in service in the tax year filing,
3) and have LESS THAN 500 MILES on it.

I'm not saying you couldn't try, but thems the rules, and if they look into it.......
Still very cool
With all the 2013 problems, I'm happy with my 2012

Click to expand...

Where did you read the "less than 500 miles"?

Just as a counter-factual, I recently received my tax refund, including the $7500 tax credit on my 2011 LEAF, bought in 2013, with 1624 miles on it. The 1624 was very clearly visible on the copy of the title that I included with my tax return along with an explanation that this was in fact a "new" car by definition. Because the car model year was two older than the tax year my $7500 credit had to manually reviewed by the IRS (I couldn't file electronically).

Honestly, I've heard the story about how a car must have less than X miles on it to be considered new from many sources - including competing car dealers when I mentioned I was considering a demo. But I never could actually find any written evidence of this, and a key tell is that everyone cites a different number. "100", "500", "1000", "5000", etc, are given as values above which a car is not "new". But the actual laws I've read simply say that a car is new if this is the first time it has been titled.

I believe your information is incorrect. The federal rebate appears to be controlled by IRC 30D (http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Plug-In-Electric-Vehicle-Credit-%28IRC-30-and-IRC-30D%29" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false


"The vehicles must be acquired for use or lease and not for resale. Additionally, the original use of the vehicle must commence with the taxpayer and the vehicle must be used predominantly in the United States. For purposes of the 30D credit, a vehicle is not considered acquired prior to the time when title to the vehicle passes to the taxpayer under state law."

More detail in the tax law itself (http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2011-title26/pdf/USCODE-2011-title26-subtitleA-chap1-subchapA-partIV-subpartB-sec30D.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false:

(d) New qualified plug-in electric drive motor ve
-
hicle
For purposes of this section—
(1) In general
The term ‘‘new qualified plug-in electric
drive motor vehicle’’ means a motor vehicle—
(A) the original use of which commences
with the taxpayer,
(B) which is acquired for use or lease by
the taxpayer and not for resale,
(C) which is made by a manufacturer,
(D) which is treated as a motor vehicle for
purposes of title II of the Clean Air Act,
(E) which has a gross vehicle weight rating
of less than 14,000 pounds, and
(F) which is propelled to a significant ex
-
tent by an electric motor which draws elec
-
tricity from a battery which—
(i) has a capacity of not less than 4 kilo
-
watt hours, and
(ii) is capable of being recharged from an
external source of electricity


The 500 mile limit appears to be state law in Pennsylvania (http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt/community/alternative_fuels_incentive_grant/10492/alternative_fuel_vehicles/553206" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false:

An alternative fuel vehicle (AFV) must be a new vehicle with an odometer reading of less than 500 miles at the time of purchase to be eligible for a rebate.



Now, I'm not a tax lawyer and it's possible that things have changed but I think I'm still in the clear. (crossing fingers)

I wonder if several states have different mileage variations of basically the same tax credit law, that might explain how it keeps coming up - real and correct law, just multiple different versions at the state or local level.

I guess I'll plan on not using turbotax and getting myself an account for taxes next cycle just to make it easier, but I'm glad to see that it can be done.

Different states have different definitions (particularly with mileage) of what is a "new" car. I bought a "new" Maxima in late 1998 that had been in service 6 months and had just shy of 7k miles. But it was a dealer demo and never titled, so as far as California DMV was concerned it was a new car.

I have a really low VIN too. Didn't Hertz or someone have these as rentals at one time? I got a 10 bar battery when I bought it in Janurary with 8100 miles but then again, I'm pretty sure I'll get a new one out of it. Kind of a benefit if you ask me. I've got almost 2 years in Texas to drive the heck out of it and get the free one. I'm around 80% of a new battery according to Leafspy Pro.

Summer's coming.

I have taken possession of the car a hooked up leagspy - if I understand it right I had 284 gods and then t showed 87.5% battery? I am still nlearning but I think that's okay for a 3.5yr old car.

Next step is schedule the tab and battery service appt.

You got 284 gids on a full charge?

Shaun said:

I have taken possession of the car a hooked up leagspy - if I understand it right I had 284 gods and then t showed 87.5% battery? I am still nlearning but I think that's okay for a 3.5yr old car.

Next step is schedule the tab and battery service appt.

Click to expand...

If you had 284 gids that would be amazing given the car's age.

I have to tell you, I looked up the car on the dealer's web site and I think you got a steal if it in fact is "new". The icing on the cake is if you got the full warranty - but even if you didn't as long as they'll get Carwings to work for free and promise you two free annual battery checks you're probably okay as not a lot goes wrong with these cars. A few things:

1) Keep all documentation you get - if there is anything you have to send off make a copy first. That's important for tax purposes.
2) When you apply for the Federal Tax Credit next year they will review it personally as your "new" car is from the 2011 model year. Make sure you include copies of the title and bill of sale along with a letter explaining that this is technically a new car because it was never previously titled in any state.
3) And I expect that you already understand that the $7500 credit applies to tax you owe for one year only - if you owe less than $7500 typically you won't get the full credit. There are strategies for addressings, this, such as excess contributions to a Roth IRA, and you have time to figure those out, but be aware of this.

I got the remaining warranty, not full.

I may have misremembered the gid number, unless leafspy has history logging I will check again when I charge it.

After driving it all around today (dealer to work to home to evening plans) I am certain I got a great deal even if I misremembered the gid number. I was driving an 89 Buick Reatta, which though it was top of the line car then, wow,the nav, the Bluetooth, all very nice. Plus, no gas!

Looking at the history now, leafspy says 61.14ahr soh=93% hx=90.51% l1/l2=249.

I'm recharging now, I assume I can read the full gids only if I can refill to full?