second thoughts

I've really been wanting to buy a Nissan Leaf but now am having second thoughts. I recently moved back to Southern California (orange county) and am living in an apartment with a single car garage. My garage is separate from the apartment, in a totally separate structure, there is one outlet on the ceiling with 2 plugs, and one of the plugs has the garage door opener plugged in it. I can't/won't have any electrical work done until I buy a permanent home.

I recently went to a Nissan dealer with some questions. I wanted to make sure I could charge a Leaf with the 110 outlet in the garage. One guy said there is a new portable charger that plugs into a 110 outlet and converts it to 220 to charge in 3 1/2 hours, but the plug looked pretty big and wouldn't fit if the other plug is used, the guy said to buy a little extension plug and then I could plug this in. Does anyone know about this or how else I could charge the Leaf. I don't want to drive off with a Leaf and not be able to charge it.

Also, the dealer wouldn't give me any pricing information or additional information about the different levels and packages. He even made a comment about it being a negotiation and said they couldn't give me any pricing unless I was going to buy that day.

So I started to do some research about the packages and leasing online , and saw some problems with battery degradation and other problems. I need to drive 4 times a week to work which is around 55 miles round trip, mostly freeway, local driving other days. Also, I visit my Mom who lives in L.A. about once every 3-4 weeks and that is 60 miles each way, and we usually have lunch, shop, run errands.

I thought the 80 mile range is ok and I could live with it but if the battery has problems and degrades, it would be a problem.

Am I just anxious or does anyone have any experience or advice to share. Also if anyone could help with charging options.
I want to get a new car by the end of the month but am not getting what I need from the local dealer and am starting to feel like I need to look at other cars. Thanks for any help/advice.

If there is only one plug in the ceiling in your entire garage, that would mean that you have just one 120v circuit. So you would be charging at 120v, which adds about 4-5 miles of range for each hour of charging. It doesn't look like you'd have a 240v charging option in that space, regardless of what the plug looks like. To use a 240v adapter, you'd need two 120v circuits in the space that are on opposing sides of your electric panel, and that doesn't sound like what you have...

As far as the range goes, you could make it work, especially when the car is new. The 80 mile trips to your Mom's house would be more of an issue, but it's doable if you're willing to put some time into charging...

The big question is...Do you want it easy but more expensive for fuel (gas car), or are you willing to put in more time and trouble charging with lower fuel expenses (LEAF) and all the fun of driving electric?

I chose the latter, but other people would go the gas route...

As someone who lives in apartment with a similar garage setup, check to see if your garage is on it's own circuit breaker and how many amps it is. The electrician at my apartment complex wired 18 garages to the same 15 amp breaker so when I was charging and someone would open up their garage door, poof went the power. The wiring was done just for the garage door openers (that's the reason the plug was on the ceiling). I now charge almost daily at the dealer 1/2 mile away while I look at moving this summer.

On the pricing, contact the internet salesperson at that location or work with another dealership. Or worst case say you are going to buy that day but don't give them your approval for the credit check.

People who don't control their parking situation including the ability to improve the electrical service where it is inadequate are asking for heartbreak if they get an ev.

I would not recommend that the OP get a Leaf at this time. Plugging into the ceiling outlet may prove problematic, as it likely is on a shared circuit with other garage bays. She may want to go with a plug-in hybrid for when she eventually gets her own house.

Josephine said:

I recently went to a Nissan dealer with some questions. I wanted to make sure I could charge a Leaf with the 110 outlet in the garage. One guy said there is a new portable charger that plugs into a 110 outlet and converts it to 220 to charge in 3 1/2 hours, but the plug looked pretty big and wouldn't fit if the other plug is used, the guy said to buy a little extension plug and then I could plug this in. Does anyone know about this or how else I could charge the Leaf. I don't want to drive off with a Leaf and not be able to charge it.

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my advice is never, ever believe what any car salesman or dealership tells you! they will say anything to sell cars.
as for the charging, the advice he gave you was wrong. in order to charge the car in 3.5 hours, which BTW is false as well, you need to install at least 30 amp 240 service.
You can charge the car at 110 but it will take a very long time to charge a car from near empty to full

My suggestion is that you first, make sure that you can get 120 volts *and* at least 12 amps reliably, for charging. You will at least have to make sure you never run the door opener while charging, or vice versa. If you can't charge the car daily, don't even think about it - consider a Volt or Prius PHEV instead, so charging isn't vital to drive. If you can charge ok, lease, don't buy. You don't want to have charging difficulties and be stuck owning a car that depreciates rapidly and depends on charging. Lease for two years, in fact. Not only will the 2015 or 2016 Leaf be better, it may be *much* better.

I would recommend against a Leaf in your situation. Get a Volt instead assuming you have reliable 120 volt power where you park.

That outlet in the garage will be hard pressed to provide 55 miles per day of range. If it is a row of garages it is probably a shared circuit and should not be used. You could ask the landlord about installing a 20a or 30a 240v outlet but otherwise I recommend you pass on LEAF for now.

Your desire to get a LEAF is commendable but I'd agree with the other posters and suggest you wait for now.

1) You mention battery degradation and being in Orange County. By far, the number 1 factor in battery degradation of the LEAF has been excessive heat. Most of the extreme degradation has occurred with LEAFs in Arizona (Phoenix, Tucson), but also in Texas, Nevada, and part of California. Orange County is a big place, and a lot of it has cooler temps, but to be on the safe side I'd recommend waiting until Nissan delivers the promised heat-resistant battery, supposedly sometime this year.

2) As others have said you can charge at home with a 110V outlet but a) it's very slow - from 10% battery to 100% in something like 14 hours - and b) when you are on a shared circuit as in the garage you describe there is a chance that the circuit won't support charging at the same time as, for example, opening a garage door. (b) is problematic, but given your distance requirements I think (a) is a sufficient deal-breaker. Wait until you can get level 2 (240V) charging at your place of home *or* work.

Beyond that, though, the questions you raise are all solvable with the LEAF.

A) Stay away from that dealer. There are dealers in SoCal who know the LEAF well but that obviously was not one. Check around this forum and you'll find the recommended dealers. Also, when ready to buy many of us recommend that you don't negotiate on the premises but instead send emails to the internet departments of all local dealers with the specifics of what you want and ask them for their price. This will start a negotiation process that will give you a much better deal.

B) The mileage you describe is fine but once you get the LEAF you'll also learn about the extensive EV charging network in SoCal, including DC fast chargers, and how to get extra juice when you need to go a little farther. And if you wait for the heat resistant battery noted in (1) above concerns about degradation over the longer term will be much less of a factor.

If you need to get a new car now you might look at the Volt. But before getting any plug-in I'd first check with your landlord about whether the electrical circuit can handle the charge in your garage.

Can you charge at work?

Your freeway driving could be a problem. A LEAF will leave you very little extra range for errands or emergencies if you do a 55 mile commute driving with the flow of traffic (assuming traffic is going 70 mph). If you're OK with limping along at 55 mph in the far right lane it will all work out fine.

Josephine said:

So I started to do some research about the packages and leasing online , and saw some problems with battery degradation and other problems. I need to drive 4 times a week to work which is around 55 miles round trip, mostly freeway, local driving other days. Also, I visit my Mom who lives in L.A. about once every 3-4 weeks and that is 60 miles each way, and we usually have lunch, shop, run errands.

I thought the 80 mile range is ok and I could live with it but if the battery has problems and degrades, it would be a problem.

Am I just anxious or does anyone have any experience or advice to share. Also if anyone could help with charging options.
I want to get a new car by the end of the month but am not getting what I need from the local dealer and am starting to feel like I need to look at other cars. Thanks for any help/advice.

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One of the best ways to learn about the faults of any new item is to hear from former users, and then apply a discount to their complaints.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=16135" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks for the link.

Appreciate all the input here. There is no charger at work. My landlord says they will be installing charging station in the complex in October but I hope to be in a home by then.

I was really hanging on to this dream for a while but had to face reality that it can't work for me right now. I looked at a few auto best of lists and with an open mind am looking at different cars, mostly compacts and subcompacts. Am leaning towards Prius, Accord/Civic hybrids. Even thought the ICE Mazda3/6 and Imprezas are solid.

Will try the email buying when I decide which car to get because I really do not like the car salespeople. All lying to me, very obviously saying things to sell me a particular car. Wish me luck!

If you can hold off buying anything until you close the house sale it could make qualifying for a loan a bit easier.
If you are coming off lease and need something.... maybe something well used until you have the house.
Anyway talk to your bank about mortgages.

If you mean buy a used car, am clueless about how to assess one, so prefer something new and inexpensive as will probably not finance the car. Definitely need to talk to the bank, thanx for reminder.

Am leaning towards Prius, Accord/Civic hybrids. Even thought the ICE Mazda3/6 and Imprezas are solid.

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The Prius PHEV (plug-in) doesn't have a huge amount of EV range (about 13 miles) but it can easily get 75+MPG when charged and then driven as a hybrid. If you can't charge it then it can still get 60+ MPG, because the larger battery enhances its hybrid capabilities even when not plugged in to charge. Rebates can actually make this car less expensive than a Prius II, so I suggest you look into that. You would get a great, proven, reliable midsize car that will let you run errands as an EV, and will get much better MPG than even a tiny subcompact. The problem with the Volt is that while you don't have to charge it, the MPG will be quite mediocre (about 37MPG) if you don't.

LeftieBiker said:

Am leaning towards Prius, Accord/Civic hybrids. Even thought the ICE Mazda3/6 and Imprezas are solid.

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The Prius PHEV (plug-in) doesn't have a huge amount of EV range (about 13 miles) but it can easily get 75+MPG when charged and then driven as a hybrid. If you can't charge it then it can still get 60+ MPG, because the larger battery enhances its hybrid capabilities even when not plugged in to charge. Rebates can actually make this car less expensive than a Prius II, so I suggest you look into that. You would get a great, proven, reliable midsize car that will let you run errands as an EV, and will get much better MPG than even a tiny subcompact. The problem with the Volt is that while you don't have to charge it, the MPG will be quite mediocre (about 37MPG) if you don't.

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+1. LeftieBiker's advice is sound, in my opinion. I agree with him 100%. If you decide to go to the Leaf after you move, the resale value on the Prius will be MUCH better than a used 2013-2014 Leaf.