New Member from Minneapolis

Hi all

Bought a used Leaf in May and have loved it ever since - until today! Today being -4 degrees out, that is.....

I work about 30 miles from home and bought the car thinking it could get me home and back on one charge. Generally, it did, and I have been saving about $100-$150 in gas per month over my previous minivan. In fact, I have driven to work and back several times and still had about 5-10 miles left. Even better was the fact that my work allows me to plug in while I'm there free of charge. Very cool.

As the temp has been getting colder this winter, however, I have noticed a serious drop in my range. On Monday, I drove home with no heat, scraping ice off my windshield in the middle of a snowstorm, and made it with less than 3 miles left. Today was the first day below zero. I left with a full charge but was down to less than 20 miles by the time I got to school. After charging from 8 AM to about 2:30, I only had about 40 miles total and had to stop at the dealership on the way home to charge. Not to mention the fact that I had to roll down the window and keep the heat off to save charge...my ears felt like they were about to fall off.

Does this sound right? Have other cold weather Leaf owners experienced the same? The service dept at the local Nissan dealership claims that Nissan has no program that replaces batteries with diminishing power - seems to me there was a class action suit started by Leaf owners in AZ. Not true?

I'll have to do some more research this weekend.....

Some things to consider for a safer more comfortable ride:
Range will drop in cold weather and snow -this is normal
Charge to 100%
Preheat with the EVSE still connected
Drive with the heat set to low/~60 The power consumption should drop after a few minutes
Use Eco to extend your range (this will reduce some heat output)

Don't worry too much about the displayed range remaining, be concerned about the low battery and very low battery warnings.

Use the range chart to help http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=101293" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; *Pay attention to the 7 points at the bottom

Please report back on your energy usage and if you are doing any of the recommendations above.

The range will temporarily decrease in the cold, but the cold doesn't harm the batteries (it is actually good for their longevity--much better than being in Phoenix). I suggest you get the Leaf Spy (link in my signature) or LeafDD (search the forum, this is my favorite) so you can monitor exactly how much energy you have left. The Guess-o-meter (estimated miles remaining) is a poor substitute.

Starbuck said:

.my ears felt like they were about to fall off.

....

Click to expand...

Here is my arsenal to keep warm while using my leaf!

http://www.furhatworld.com/ultimate-shearling-sheepskin-aviator-hat-black-p-490.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.leatherglovesonline.com/np/MensGloves-ByStyle-Winter.htm#section=start" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/56802?feat=56800-ppxs&dds=y" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/69688?feat=fleece%20lined%20flannel%20shirt-SR0&page=men-s-fleece-lined-flannel-shirt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Pop's Leather coat with real wool zip-out liner http://popsleather.com/prod_v2.php3?prod=19" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.theshoemart.com/ecco-mens_track_ii_high_gtx_bison-bison/pvc-ecc-mxsbc-001954-00741_ecc_m_track_ii_high_gtx.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm always toasty warm!

I have been experiencing the same issues with loss of range...significant loss of range. Our temps went from the 20s and 30s to the single digits in Salt Lake City and I lost 50% of my range. I can barely get 50 miles on a full charge. That doesn't cut it!!!!! I called nissan and they were less than helpful. In fact worthless. If this piece of junk losses that much range in the winter it is a worthless vehicle that should only be sold in a climate like California. I expected to lose some miles but not that much. I am glad this is only a 2 year lease. With the $1000 expense of the home charging station, $300 electrician expense to run a 240V line into the garage all my fuel savings has been eaten up. I should have kept our gas guzzling Tahoe that got 12 mpg. At least I knew that vehicle could go more than 50 miles on a tank of gas in the winter. I feel bad for all you Leaf owners in the Midwest that are seeing temps well below zero. Good luck trying to go 20 miles!

Serious hit in winter, today in portland oregon its currently 12 degrees, i charge to 100% while driving wife to work, because there is no way she is going to let me drive without heater blasting.

Some interesting vids

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gWqumtF4Fq8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zSZplNzFRZk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yup, normal. With the stupid cold temps I've been running the heat A LOT more than I did last winter. 100% charge this a.m. with heat running took 4 battery range bars to drive 15 miles @45mph on mostly clear roads. I haven't checked my tire pressure since someone opened the deep freeze so they might be a little under inflated. The last check I did was when it was 40*F. There was some ice on the road (the frozen stuff not the dinoburners) so I'm not sure how much that affected the rolling resistance beyond the points Tony makes on his range charge.

If you have a 60 mile round trip commute I would definitely invest in heated socks. Don't worry about charging to 100% in this cold it will be fine on the battery.

One the whole preheat thing I'm torn. I was doing preheat last winter when I had to take the kids to school and still had to run the defrost to keep the windows clear w/3 people in the car. This winter it's just me and when I was only one in car last year and didn't preheat I could get away with short bursts of 60*F defrost on medium blow every few stop lights. If you're warm enough you might try no preheat to see if that keeps you off the defroster.

Now someone close the door you're letting the heat out. This winter is going to be a bad one.

I guess I'll be keeping my head warm this winter as well http://www.rabbityhats.com/fur-hats

I hear ya. Cold weather is hard on range. Last winter was tough here in Michigan.

I did a ton of research on cold weather range and driving in the Leaf before I signed a lease 18 months ago. You can pretty much count on a 50% range reductionin frigid conditions while using cabin heat like a non-EV. I anticipated this before I started driving the leaf due to research. Luckily my daily commute rarely exceeds 40 miles round trip.

When you pre-heat, use the heat less, or the temps outside are not frigid you get less of a range reduction.

The range chart says to reduce range by 1% per 4 degrees (F) below 70. So if it is 10 below, it would indicate you should expect a range reduction of 20% due to temperature. But, you also have to read the other assumptions listed in the chart. Such as wind. Often cold weather is stormy and windy. Another factor is the rolling resistance of snow and slush on the road. And then there is the cabin heater/defrost.

I've seen the GOM drop about 10% of estimated range just by turning on the heater. But I presume it over estimates a bit and that if I actually drove the remainder of the range with the heat on the whole time the actual impact to range would be less.

You've also got the heated seats and steering wheel. And I've heard the suggestion that it takes less energy to heat those and feel warm then to heat the entire cabin. Makes sense. Just depends on passenger situation and window fogging as to whether it is practical.

You also have reduced hours of sunlight and so your headlights are on. More of an impact if you do not have the LED headlights.

You also have reduced charge capacity. Cold batteries take longer to charge and do not accept as much charge. And I have not found much info. on the topic but there is the battery heater. I am not clear if this can engage while not charging. The idea being that you'd rather sacrifice some energy to heat the battery pack and be able to dump more energy into it during the charge for your journey. But is there also an aid to pulling more power back out of the battery when it is warmer? I just picture the mass of the battery sitting, unplugged, uninsulated, in a windy parking lot at temps less than 10 degrees, and the amount of energy it would take to heat it any appreciable amount. I also picture myself stranded alongside a quiet (except for the wind!) country road under the same conditions. Also, the owners manual is not very specific about the battery freeze potential at below zero temps, and what actions one that finds themselves trying to use the car under such conditions should take to help assure things go well. Specifically it refers to battery temp, not outside temp. So why don't they show actual battery temp on the dash?

And finally, you have the age of the battery and it's lose of capacity over time. Actually you should probably compute this first and take the other percentage reductions off the net of age-adjusted battery capacity.

I too live in a cold climate (MN). I too estimated a 35-40 mile round trip requirement for my needs. And so the 84 mile EPA rating (with rather ideal conditions compared to our likely winter driving requirements) was just high enough for me to go ahead and purchase with the thinking that when battery is replaced many years from now, I'll be able to double the range in the same battery footprint and have a more comfortable excess capacity. Who knows, by then my driving requirements will probably differ.

Even my EV interested friends are waiting to see "how it handles winter" before investigating further. The main "battery" experience of Minnesotans in Winter is jumpstarting vehicles, because they don't hold enough charge to start your cold car. Completely different battery tech. But enough similarity with temp and age effecting charge capacity that they are leery. "all eyes on us" I guess.