Future Leaf owner.

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

NissanNut

Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2013
Messages
24
Location
Dallas, Texas
I am looking to buy a used Leaf one day. Curious on how the maintenance is on these? I am a hard core DIY guy. I dont believe in taking to dealer. I have owned Nissans exclusively since 1984. Do all my own work. Only owned 1 NEW one. Only thing I dont do is alignments. Well thats not always true for my 92 Pathy.

Currently own:

92 Pathfinder SEV6 highly modified for fun. VG33, Solid axle swap etc..
05 Armada SEV8 Stock family car and tow rig.
04 Quest SEV6 stock Wifes. (bought new)

Since the Quest and Armada are same size (1" different) we want to replace Quest with a Leaf. My Wife never does more than 30 miles a day.

I have never driven one but I have sat in them at Car show.

I wanted to drive the Leaf to work, but I guess it wont make the 70 mile round trip. Its 70mph all the way. I work next to Nissan in Coppel. I see a few Leafs with manufacture plates on occasion.

Any ways I want the oldest Leaf I can find. Preferably with no warranty. I understand the batterys have a 9 year warranty. I dont want to wait that long though.
 
I would strongly recommend against purchasing a LEAF (new or used) until Nissan releases the price of a replacement battery pack. It's inevitable that you will have to replace the pack at least once, and it's likely to happen out of warranty. As it stands right now, battery packs are not available for sale, even from dealers. This is a major issue for people like you and me who prefer to own cars until the wheels fall off.

Look into the warranty carefully, the 8 year 100,000 mile warranty on the battery only covers defects. The shorter 5 year 60,000 mile warranty covers capacity. An off-lease LEAF will only have 2 years and 15,000 miles of remaining coverage.

With that said, at 24,000 miles, I have invested $0 into maintenance and $0 into repairs on my car. The car has developed a moan on the front end which the dealer has not been able to detect, but it will be covered under warranty when it does break. Battery aside, I expect the car itself to last many years.

30 miles per day is a good fit for the LEAF. If it was your only vehicle, I would recommend the Chevy Volt since 30 miles is the sweet spot for that car.

If you do buy a used LEAF, here's my suggestion: Find one with the worst battery possible. I would get a 2012 over a 2011 (winter package). You want something that will degrade to 70% before its 5 years old, so right before the warranty expires, you take it to the dealer to get a free battery. You can use the Android app "LEAF Spy" to determine the battery capacity before purchase.

Otherwise, consider a lease. They are affordable and the perfect fit for a car like this with an unknown future and lack of major parts availability.
 
NissanNut said:
I am looking to buy a used Leaf one day.
You might be surprised how inexpensive the new ones are on lease deals. Not good for a DIY type of person, but perhaps you could give yourself the luxury of a new car and avoid the depreciation costs on rapidly advancing battery technology.
 
I would never do a lease. I dont like to finance, dont want the payments. I own all my Nissans 100%. I have grown to love Nissans over the decades of ownership. Like I said I do all my own maintenance and repairs. I dont like to buy cars from new or used dealers either.

The batterys are actually 48 seperate replacable modules, So I can replace one at a time if needed. It would be easier than rebuilding my motor or trans. Only 600lbs to pop out the bottom.

Here is how they make the batterys in TN:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mun1Mct6JEs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here is the 48 cells:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2rFVk2h8TQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I love the design, all the cells are modules.
 
FWIW, I'm somewhat of a Nissan fan as well and had 2 Nissans before my Leaf.
NissanNut said:
I wanted to drive the Leaf to work, but I guess it wont make the 70 mile round trip. Its 70mph all the way. I work next to Nissan in Coppel. I see a few Leafs with manufacture plates on occasion.

Any ways I want the oldest Leaf I can find. Preferably with no warranty. I understand the batterys have a 9 year warranty. I dont want to wait that long though.
I think you have some misunderstandings. If you want to do that 70 mile roundtrip at 70 mph all the way and there's no charging at work, forget it. You will have a hard time doing that on a Leaf w/a brand new battery. See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=101293" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Range chart predicts you'd get 68 miles of range at that speed.

You're in Texas, you don't want to own a Leaf unless somehow you're in a cooler part of TX due to rapid battery degradation due to heat. See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=Battery_Capacity_Loss" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=228326" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. The 4 battery capacity bar loser (Blue494) only went 59.3 miles at 62 mph before running out of juice. That I'm pretty sure was Scott Yarosh's at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=Real_World_Battery_Capacity_Loss#four_bars" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, after only 14 months (?) in Phoenix. Someone please correct me on this, if I'm wrong.

Skip down to the "Here's how bad the range can get with a seriously degraded battery" of http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=101293" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; to show that you'll make it ~43 miles @ 70 mph if you lose 4 capacity bars. That's the threshold at which you're eligible for a replacement pack (see below) if within the 5 year/60K mile capacity warranty.

The Leaf had no battery capacity warranty at all until http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13192" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, which is only good for 5 years/60K miles. You can read the details there. After that's gone, there is NO price on a replacement pack.

If you want a replacement pack due to degradation, you'd have to get a pack from somewhere or go with this $100/month battery lease/rental program: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13331" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

It doesn't matter that the packs are modules. In the absence of a defective module or two, they will have all degraded about equally.

TonyWilliams put together this summary at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=9694" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, in case you don't want to read all 658 pages of http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8802" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

As for "Any ways I want the oldest Leaf I can find. Preferably with no warranty." I wouldn't do that due to calendar battery capacity loss. They start degrading the moment after they're manufactured. And, no warranty means no warranty for when expensive parts fail like the on-board charger. The OBC on some (probably not that many) '11 and '12 Leafs has blown, usually a blown diode and it's IIRC replacing the unit is $1K+, if out of warranty.

Google for stuff like this:
site:mynissanleaf.com obc diode
site:mynissanleaf.com charger blown diode
 
NissanNut said:
The batterys are actually 48 seperate replacable modules, So I can replace one at a time if needed. It would be easier than rebuilding my motor or trans. Only 600lbs to pop out the bottom.
Yes you could, but it turns out that the cells age pretty evenly so in practice the whole pack has to be replaced. For our best guess about how the battery will age in different climates and with various driving patterns, see Battery Aging Model (link in my sig). There is a spreadsheet where you can enter information to get a good guess about capacity loss, and a public link to the spreadsheet on google docs.
 
IMHO, one would be almost crazy to own an EV w/o active battery thermal management in hot climates like TX.

FWIW, I don't like leasing or payments either yet I am on 2 year lease for my Leaf. It's my 1st lease ever.
 
On the maintenance, after owning nothing but petroleum-powered vehicles, you'll be pleasantly surprised about the Leaf's lack of maintenance needs. You will be able to do all of the car's maintenance needs except for one: the yearly battery check. It is required to keep the battery warranty in force. The first two are free, after that you do pay but I understand the cost to be under $100 each.

The rest of the maintenance:
6 months/7500 miles: tire rotation, inspections
1 year/15k miles: above, plus cabin filter replacement
2 years/30k miles: above, plus brake fluid flush
15 years/125k miles: coolant flush
 
NissanNut said:
I would never do a lease. I dont like to finance, dont want the payments. I own all my Nissans 100%.

I leased my Leaf for the battery warranty reasons, and because the $7500 Federal Rebate is deducted immediately from the cost of the lease calculation. Otherwise, you have to wait to file your Federal Income tax return in order to claim the rebate as a tax credit. Note if you don't have at least $7500 in income tax, then you will be giving up some, or all, of the rebate.

Additonally, I don't like payments either. So I prepaid my 2 year lease. Easy to do with Nissan. The lease deals are so compelling (around here, $119 to $138/mo), but keep in mind that most deals will include some upfront money. Most good deals on an SV lease will be a total of about $7200 for the two year period. This $3600 per year is usually offset by the typical gas savings. I'm currently saving somewhere around $350 per month on gasoline, so the basic cost of leasing the Leaf is just about zero. Insurance is an additional cost, but there is basically no maintenance other than checking the tire pressures and checking windshield fluids and battery coolant fluid. The sales taxes where I live are rolled into the lease cost. However, in Missouri, I will be liable for personal property tax on the Leaf beginning next calendar year.
 
DoctorSaul said:
Additonally, I don't like payments either. So I prepaid my 2 year lease.

Pre-paying a lease is generally a bad idea. Although a couple of people who wrecked their leased Leafs either got some money back from the insurance proceeds, and/or were able to swap out the collateral for another one of equal or better value, for the most part with NMAC leases you will lose any down payment you put down in case the car is declared a write-off.

For people who have an aversion to making payments, but still wish to lease, you're better off keeping the entire amount in the checking account where the payments would normally be drawn from, rather than handing it all over to NMAC at once.
 
DoctorSaul said:
I leased my Leaf for the battery warranty reasons, and because the $7500 Federal Rebate is deducted immediately from the cost of the lease calculation. Otherwise, you have to wait to file your Federal Income tax return in order to claim the rebate as a tax credit. Note if you don't have at least $7500 in income tax, then you will be giving up some, or all, of the rebate.

Additonally, I don't like payments either. So I prepaid my 2 year lease. Easy to do with Nissan. The lease deals are so compelling (around here, $119 to $138/mo), but keep in mind that most deals will include some upfront money. Most good deals on an SV lease will be a total of about $7200 for the two year period. This $3600 per year is usually offset by the typical gas savings. I'm currently saving somewhere around $350 per month on gasoline, so the basic cost of leasing the Leaf is just about zero. Insurance is an additional cost, but there is basically no maintenance other than checking the tire pressures and checking windshield fluids and battery coolant fluid.
One important correction: There is no battery coolant fluid. That's why everyone here is saying don't buy (as oppose to lease) if you live where it gets hot. Heat degrades the battery quite rapidly, and the LEAF has no defenses against it. That's why cwerdna said, "one would be almost crazy to own an EV w/o active battery thermal management in hot climates like TX." The LEAF has nothing like that, not liquid cooling, nor conditioned air, nor even a fan inside the battery compartment.

There is a required annual battery check, but it is an electronic readout of stats maintained by the battery control computer. That readout requires specialized equipment, and sends detailed data to Nissan along with printing a mostly useless report for the owner. If you don't have it done you lose your battery warranty.

And a minor clarification: DoctorSaul's point about $7500 in income tax applies only if you buy. If you lease, you don't have to worry about that.

Ray
 
cwerdna said:
FWIW, I'm somewhat of a Nissan fan as well and had 2 Nissans before my Leaf.
NissanNut said:
I wanted to drive the Leaf to work, but I guess it wont make the 70 mile round trip. Its 70mph all the way. I work next to Nissan in Coppel. I see a few Leafs with manufacture plates on occasion.

Any ways I want the oldest Leaf I can find. Preferably with no warranty. I understand the batterys have a 9 year warranty. I dont want to wait that long though.
I think you have some misunderstandings. If you want to do that 70 mile roundtrip at 70 mph all the way and there's no charging at work, forget it. You will have a hard time doing that on a Leaf w/a brand new battery.

Since he lives next to a Nissan dealer he could charge there.
 
Thanks for the links,

I work next to Nissan Motor Financing in Coppell. If I could charge it there then I could use it to commute to work on occasion :D . I could probably charge in the underground parking if I could find an outlet. I live in the Dallas (North Texas) area so its not as hot as CA where we lived before. Temp range is 7F to 105F. No where near as hot as So cal. My old house hit 120F!

Since the maintenance seems like nothing but normal pads, rotors and tires. Expensive battery modules does not sound that bad. No fluids to change or motor mounts. FWD cars are hard on tires and motor mounts. I have owned a maxima and a few Quests. I normally try to avoid FWD vehicles. I can pull my trans/tcase combo by myself. So I think I can pull this 600lb lump in my garage. I could use 2 gantrys to lift body off. :idea: Anyone try this yet?

There is about 3 Leafs in my neighborhood. I have not yet talked to any of the owners, I just keep seing them cruise around. I really love the body style the more I see it. Those Prius things are so ugly. I have seen 2 volts.

So if the 192 batterys start to degarde, I can still drive it until the whole 1 of the 48 modules is completely dead right? Just a loss of power output and some kind of check engine light? Some times my cell phone batterys act up and just need to be replaced. I find it hard to believe all 48 cells wear out at the exact same time. I imagine just a loss in range and maybe power output. That is fine for Us. We will use it around town 90% of the time. My Wife rarely drives 10 miles from home. Every store/doctor or work is less than 10 miles from my garage so It would be perfect. The poor Quest is driven almost daily for 10 years. Only needed 1 motor mount and 1 trans mount, 2 struts and the normal tires, brakes, belts and fluids. Oh and 1 brake bulb. Not bad for a vehicle made in Miss.
 
DNAinaGoodWay said:
NissanNut, there are used LEAFs out there, and more to come, you should be able to find one. Even some wrecked ones if you really want a project.

I know and I am watching and waiting for them to drop in price. :D

I like to buy Nissans about 4 years old. Normally with best body as possible since I cant paint it myself. Any mechanical issues is what I want. I can fix those easily. For example I bought my 05 Armada 2 years ago cash. Had minor oil leak (oil cooler gasket $3) water leak ( new radiator) and bad actuators for HVAC ($30 each) oil sender dead ($35). Now that I have fixed all those its been maint free the last 20k miles. Everything works and no leaks. Just brakes and belt.
 
NissanNut said:
I work next to Nissan Motor Financing in Coppell. If I could charge it there then I could use it to commute to work on occasion :D . I could probably charge in the underground parking if I could find an outlet. I live in the Dallas (North Texas) area so its not as hot as CA where we lived before. Temp range is 7F to 105F. No where near as hot as So cal. My old house hit 120F!
...
Expensive battery modules does not sound that bad.
...
So if the 192 batterys start to degarde, I can still drive it until the whole 1 of the 48 modules is completely dead right? Just a loss of power output and some kind of check engine light? Some times my cell phone batterys act up and just need to be replaced. I find it hard to believe all 48 cells wear out at the exact same time. I imagine just a loss in range and maybe power output. That is fine for Us. We will use it around town 90% of the time. My Wife rarely drives 10 miles from home. Every store/doctor or work is less than 10 miles from my garage so It would be perfect. The poor Quest is driven almost daily for 10 years.
You seem to have numerous misconceptions or you're just believing what you want to believe.

Re: using the car to commute "if I could find an outlet", keep in mind that charging at 120 volts is quite slow. Look under "Nissan LEAF Miles Gained per Hour Charging", assuming you averaged 4 miles/kwh, which would be about right for going 65 mph.

Re: the bolded part, why? Why do you think that? You're going to lose range as the battery degrades.

I don't recall if the people have found the price of a single module but the same person below has written $600 and $650, each:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=223099#p223099" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=140298#p140298" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I highly doubt that replacing a single module will help if the entire pack is degraded. When Nissan does the capacity warranty work for those who have lost 4+ capacity bars, they replace the entire pack. You think that if replacing a few modules was good enough they'd do that instead?

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=14102" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; is a thread tracking pack replacements. I don't know if there are others or ones not covered there.

That said, excluding commutes, if the round trips are only 20 miles, a Leaf even w/a very degraded battery would be ok for quite some time.
 
I purchased mine used for 18k cash out the door, 2011 with 19600 miles and with all 12 Battery Capacity Bars (CB). Very clean like new and today with around 23500 miles still holding at 12 CB and at 54.9AH. Love driving the leaf to work & back. My round trip is 40 miles. My GIDs start out at 223 and ends at 160 when I get to work (20 Miles) I then drive home in the morning with 100 GIDs left.

For Maintenance since August 10th 2013, New Nokian Entyre Tires at $530.00, should last me over 50k+ miles, and a Cabin filter at $8.00 on eBay.

Saved $1050.00 in Gas so far since August. As far as Electricity, I run on Solar.


Fred
 
NissanNut said:
I would never do a lease. I dont like to finance, dont want the payments. I own all my Nissans 100%. I have grown to love Nissans over the decades of ownership. Like I said I do all my own maintenance and repairs. I dont like to buy cars from new or used dealers either.

The batterys are actually 48 seperate replacable modules, So I can replace one at a time if needed. It would be easier than rebuilding my motor or trans. Only 600lbs to pop out the bottom.

Here is how they make the batterys in TN:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mun1Mct6JEs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here is the 48 cells:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2rFVk2h8TQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I love the design, all the cells are modules.

Awesome post, there went my idea for building replacement packs, I thought they were battery cells like the 18650's... Where the heck will I get wafers.



Fred
 
I found a few from 14-18k used. I can wait longer, my wifes Quest is paid for and has less than 100k for a 04. She just wants an electric vehicle and something smaller.
 
Good luck NissanNut. You certainly seem to have the enthusiasm to join us crazed early adopter purchasers of the 2011 LEAF.
Others have pointed out your erroneous misperceptions.
Mostly all 48 modules degrade at the same rate.
Cost of replacement battery. UNKNOWN. Probably somewhere between 333$/kwH and 550$/kwh, somewhere between $8,000 and $13,000.
Some claim Tesla is getting their commodity cells for $200 per kWh. I think that is a false and unlikely rumor.
I agree with you that buying used Nissan ICE vehicles and extending their life for another 100,000+ miles has been a smart choice.
At this point though, it is much less likely that will work out good for you on the LEAF.
But good luck anyway :!: :shock: :D :? :cry:
 
Back
Top