Shifting Question

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T

toiday

Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2013
Messages
6
Just got a new Leaf. Love it so far. One question though and hope to find a good reasonable answer to it. What is the logic behind shifting forward to go back and shifting back to go forward? It make no sense to me so I hope someone can explain that to me. Thanks all!
 
Inertia... That is how most cars with automatics do it (PRNDL) ...

toiday said:
What is the logic behind shifting forward to go back and shifting back to go forward? It make no sense to me so I hope someone can explain that to me. Thanks all!
Click to expand...
 
TomT said:
Inertia... That is how most cars with automatics do it (PRNDL) ...
Click to expand...

I like to think that way too. But, on automatic, from Park as starting point, you would shift backward for everything. The reason the next stop is Reverse is because your would normally backout from parking before you drive forward. Then they put in Neutral to separate Reverse and Drive. That's good Logic!

In the Leaf, you start from the middle and shift forward to go back and shift backward to go forward. That I don't get it.
 
It's completely arbitrary and it doesn't matter.

I've driven manual transmissions where reverse was selected by moving the stick forward, and I've driven manual transmissions where reverse was obtained by moving the stick back. Who cares. You're not dragging the car along with your hand, you're just making a selection. The only thing missing is that most manual trans have you press down past a detent to reach reverse, but that's really just a mechanism to prevent gear clash, which isn't a problem in a 1-speed EV.
 
FMVSS102. It is part of the federal motor vehicle safety standards that automakers must adhere to in the USA.
 
kovalb said:
FMVSS102. It is part of the federal motor vehicle safety standards that automakers must adhere to in the USA.
Click to expand...

Are you sure? I'm unclear where it says anything about R & D for 'floor' mounted linear gear selectors:

Code of Federal Regulations
Title 49 - Transportation
Volume: 6
Date: 2012-10-01
Original Date: 2012-10-01
Title: Section 571.102 - Standard No. 102; Transmission shift position sequence, starter interlock, and transmission braking effect.
Context: Title 49 - Transportation. Subtitle B - Other Regulations Relating to Transportation (Continued). CHAPTER V - NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION. PART 571 - FEDERAL MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY STANDARDS. Subpart B - Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards.
§ 571.102Standard No. 102; Transmission shift position sequence, starter interlock, and transmission braking effect.
S1. Purpose and scope. This standard specifies the requirements for the transmission shift position sequence, a starter interlock, and for a braking effect of automatic transmissions, to reduce the likelihood of shifting errors, to prevent starter engagement by the driver when the transmission is in any drive position, and to provide supplemental braking at speeds below 40 kilometers per hour (25 miles per hour).
S2. Application. This standard applies to passenger cars, multi-purpose passenger vehicles, trucks, and buses.
S3. Requirements.
S3.1Automatic transmissions.
S3.1.1Location of transmission shift positions on passenger cars. A neutral position shall be located between forward drive and reverse drive positions.
S3.1.1.1Transmission shift levers. If a steering-column-mounted transmission shift lever is used, movement from neutral position to forward drive position shall be clockwise. If the transmission shift lever sequence includes a park position, it shall be located at the end, adjacent to the reverse drive position.
S3.1.2Transmission braking effect. In vehicles having more than one forward transmission gear ratio, one forward drive position shall provide a greater degree of engine braking than the highest speed transmission ratio at vehicle speeds below 40 kilometers per hour (25 miles per hour).
S3.1.3Starter interlock. Except as provided in S3.1.3.1 through S3.1.3.3, the engine starter shall be inoperative when the transmission shift position is in a forward or reverse drive position.
S3.1.3.1After the driver has activated the vehicle's propulsion system:
(a) The engine may stop and restart automatically when the transmission shift position is in any forward drive gear;
(b) The engine may not automatically stop when the transmission is in reverse gear; and
(c) The engine may automatically restart in reverse gear only if the vehicle satisfies (1) and (2):
(1) When the engine is automatically stopped in a forward drive shift position and the driver selects Reverse, the engine restarts immediately whenever the service brake is applied.
(2) When the engine is automatically stopped in a forward drive shift position and the driver selects Reverse, the engine does not start automatically if the service brake is not applied.
S3.1.3.2 Notwithstanding S3.1.3.1, the engine may stop and start at any time after the driver has activated the vehicle's propulsion system if the vehicle can meet the requirements specified in paragraphs (a) and (b):
(a) For passenger cars, multi-purpose passenger vehicles, trucks and buses with a GVWR less than or equal to 4,536 kg (10,000 pounds), the vehicle's propulsion system can propel the vehicle in the normal travel mode in all forward and reverse drive gears without the engine operating. For passenger cars, multipurpose passenger vehicles, trucks and buses with a GVWR greater than 4,536 kg (10,000 pounds), the vehicle's propulsion system can propel the vehicle in the normal travel mode in Reverse and at least one forward drive gear without the engine operating.
(b) If the engine automatically starts while the vehicle is traveling at a steady speed and steady accelerator control setting, the engine does not cause the vehicle to accelerate.
S3.1.3.3If the transmission shift position is in Park, automatically stopping or restarting the engine shall not take the transmission out of Park.
S3.1.4Identification of shift positions and of shift position sequence.
S3.1.4.1Except as specified in S3.1.4.3, if the transmission shift position sequence includes a park position, identification of shift positions, including the positions in relation to each other and the position selected, shall be displayed in view of the driver whenever any of the following conditions exist:
(a) The ignition is in a position where the transmission can be shifted; or
(b) The transmission is not in park.
S3.1.4.2Except as specified in S3.1.4.3, if the transmission shift position sequence does not include a park position, identification of shift positions, including the positions in relation to each other and the position selected, shall be displayed in view of the driver whenever the ignition is in a position in which the engine is capable of operation.
S3.1.4.3Such information need not be displayed when the ignition is in a position that is used only to start the vehicle.
S3.1.4.4All of the information required to be displayed by S3.1.4.1 or S3.1.4.2 shall be displayed in view of the driver in a single location. At the option of the manufacturer, redundant displays providing some or all of the information may be provided.
S3.2Manual transmissions. Identification of the shift lever pattern of manual transmissions, except three forward speed manual transmissions having the standard “H” pattern, shall be displayed in view of the driver at all times when a driver is present in the driver's seating position.
[70 FR 38051, July 1, 2005, as amended at 70 FR 75965, Dec. 22, 2005]
Click to expand...
 
donald said:
kovalb said:
FMVSS102. It is part of the federal motor vehicle safety standards that automakers must adhere to in the USA.
Click to expand...

Are you sure? I'm unclear where it says anything about R & D for 'floor' mounted linear gear selectors:
Click to expand...
Yes it is in there. I believe it is included in this section.
S3.1.4 Identification of shift positions and of shift position sequence.
 
The standard was written originally for column shift A/T's. However all floor mounted shifters have adhered to its intention by arranging the PRNDL so that P is at the top (vehicle forward) and L at the bottom (vehicle rear).

S3.1.1.1 Transmission shift levers. If
a steering-column-mounted transmission
shift lever is used, movement
from neutral position to forward drive
position shall be clockwise. If the
transmission shift lever sequence includes
a park position, it shall be located
at the end, adjacent to the reverse
drive position.
 
Another thing standard only applies to AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSIONS.
AFAIK in official specs Nissan have: DriveTrain: "Single-speed reduction gear"
It has one section dedicated to manual transmission as well, but nothing related to reduction gears single-speed drive trains...
How Does Tesla get away with this? If I remember it has drive on top/forward and reverse on down/back?
 
I had heard somewhere that Nissan originally thought the Leaf would likely appeal to Prius owners, and since Prius uses that type of shifter, Nissan decided the Leaf would also.
 
The standard was interpreted for floor shifters many years ago. That is why all floor shifters have R towards the front of the vehicle and D towards the back.
Tesla uses Mercedes Benz stalks and shifter; R is on top, D is at the bottom; so are BMW's and Prius'.
 
The standard answer from Nissan has been that it's because the Prius has the same shift pattern, and 90% of Leaf drivers currently or once owned a Prius. (I suspect that this figure has dropped a bit now, after the lease deals of the last 6 months.)
 
I recall the first time I drove a three-on-the-floor manual transmission car, the shift pattern was like an H, with reverse on the top left, first gear bottom left, second on top right, and third bottom right. When I got my first LEAF I assumed it had something to do with that pattern.
 
I remember the first time I TRIED to drive a column-shift manual three speed. Until I realized it was just an "H" lying on its side, I was just hitting gears randomly...
 
stjohnh said:
I had heard somewhere that Nissan originally thought the Leaf would likely appeal to Prius owners, and since Prius uses that type of shifter, Nissan decided the Leaf would also.
Click to expand...

haha, that's me! I feel perfectly at home with my Leaf shifter. :D
 

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