Considering buying used but.....

flapbreaker said:

One more question. I was looking at the charging rates for public charging in my area and unless my math is wrong it looks like it actually costs more than gas to "fill up". There are mostly Blink charge stations around which charge between $0.49/kWh and $0.59/kWh depending on the level of service. So if a leaf takes 27 kWh to charge it would cost $13.23 for the possibility of driving 75 miles? That's 17 cents/mile which by my math is more than an average small car burning gasoline. Am I looking at this the right way? If so then all these public chargers are more for emergencies than anything else it would appear.

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Blink rates are "only" $0.39/kWh if you have a free Blink membership. Also, the LEAF has a 24 kWh battery, not 27, but only 21+ kWh is accessible. The reality is that you will rarely add more than 7 kWh during a 1 hour local charging session, because all you need to do is get home and charge using cheap electricity. If you can average 4 miles per kWh, this $2.75 charge is going to equal about 10 cents per mile.

Don't forget, Blink is a "for profit" company. They have to charge enough to make a profit without pricing themselves out of business. You can also look for places like Kohl's that provide free charging as a business expense to attract customers. Of course, they do expect that you will come inside and spend money.

billg said:

flapbreaker said:

One more question. I was looking at the charging rates for public charging in my area and unless my math is wrong it looks like it actually costs more than gas to "fill up". There are mostly Blink charge stations around which charge between $0.49/kWh and $0.59/kWh depending on the level of service. So if a leaf takes 27 kWh to charge it would cost $13.23 for the possibility of driving 75 miles? That's 17 cents/mile which by my math is more than an average small car burning gasoline. Am I looking at this the right way? If so then all these public chargers are more for emergencies than anything else it would appear.

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Blink rates are "only" $0.39/kWh if you have a free Blink membership. Also, the LEAF has a 24 kWh battery, not 27, but only 21+ kWh is accessible. The reality is that you will rarely add more than 7 kWh during a 1 hour local charging session, because all you need to do is get home and charge using cheap electricity. If you can average 4 miles per kWh, this $2.75 charge is going to equal about 10 cents per mile.

Don't forget, Blink is a "for profit" company. They have to charge enough to make a profit without pricing themselves out of business. You can also look for places like Kohl's that provide free charging as a business expense to attract customers. Of course, they do expect that you will come inside and spend money.

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Thanks for the solid advice. There's a lot to learn with these.

Sounds like a great price and a good car.

Go for it!

kubel said:

LeftieBiker said:

Try to negotiate a good residual price on the car you are leasing. At least one person here was offered a lower buyout price than was in his lease.

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Was this ever confirmed? I tried to get details (such as the offer he was given), but I didn't hear anything else.

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We probably both saw the same last post from him. If it's real we should be seeing more of those offers from NMAC.

kubel said:

LeftieBiker said:

Try to negotiate a good residual price on the car you are leasing. At least one person here was offered a lower buyout price than was in his lease.

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Was this ever confirmed? I tried to get details (such as the offer he was given), but I didn't hear anything else.

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See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=16629&hilit=buyout&start=70#p397479" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
NMAC offered $4,000 off the contract residual price.
$13,800 and would have to pay sales tax and tag fee.
They don't want to keep a two bar loss vehicle at that price and plan to turn it in at end of lease.

The OPs price is probably OK.
Price varies a lot by market, and there is much more demand in Pacific northwest. A climate more ideal for the LEAF.
If you can buy at auction you might get one $2,000 to $3,000 cheaper.
But in some markets some people are attempting to sell for $2,000 to $3,000 more than OPs price.

TimLee said:

$13,800 and would have to pay sales tax and tag fee.
They don't want to keep a two bar loss vehicle at that price and plan to turn it in at end of lease.

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cars.com lists quite a few at $12k or less now, but at least 30k miles. If you want under 20k miles, a bunch under $14k. Prices seem to be dropping fairly rapidly on used LEAFs, especially the 2011s. Looks like nearly all are 1 bar down, many are 2 bars down.

TimLee said:

kubel said:

LeftieBiker said:

Try to negotiate a good residual price on the car you are leasing. At least one person here was offered a lower buyout price than was in his lease.

Click to expand...

Was this ever confirmed? I tried to get details (such as the offer he was given), but I didn't hear anything else.

Click to expand...

See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=16629&hilit=buyout&start=70#p397479" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
NMAC offered $4,000 off the contract residual price.
$13,800 and would have to pay sales tax and tag fee.
They don't want to keep a two bar loss vehicle at that price and plan to turn it in at end of lease.

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It'll be interesting to see if NMAC becomes more willing to negotiate to save them the trouble of eating it in other ways.

With the residual on my 2 year/24K mile lease, there's no way I'd want to pay that, unless something happens causing a HUGE demand for EVs (e.g. $10/gal gas, gas shortages, etc.) right before lease end.

Unfortunately, if I bought it, I don't think I'd be eligible to apply for CVRP as my lease was originally only 2 years and I'm more than a year into my lease already...

Howdy all,

I just picked up a used 2011 SV with <15k miles on it for a little over $13k. Car was in great condition, battery health I thought was showing 10 bars when I bought it but it seems to have perked up to 11 after I've been driving it a couple of days. Is that unusual, or did I just miscount at the dealer? I'm mostly averaging about 30-40 mi round trip a day so I haven't been overly concerned.

There seems to be a lot of 2011 models on the used market and it's rated in 2015 Consumer Reports as a good used vehicle, so I felt very comfortable buying it. I'm enjoying it so far, even with the unseasonable cold we've been having in Texas (In the 30's most mornings). I've been taking advantage of the climate control timer in the mornings. Now if I could just convince my workplace to install some chargers (or let me plug in...) Sounds like you've found a pretty good deal on a used 2012 to me.

Best regards,
Docbio

You won't gain capacity bars, so you must have miscounted. Wow, great price!

philipscoggins said:

You won't gain capacity bars, so you must have miscounted. Wow, great price!

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Thanks. I'll have to recount when I get in tonight to see if it really is ten or eleven. Once I get the hang of the range expectations, I'm planning on setting the 80% charge mode and doing what I can to keep the batteries cool in the summer months. It sounds like this Leaf Spy is worth looking into as well, to get more granular data, and I'll need to check in with the dealer to see if my VIN is covered under the warranty.

docbio said:

philipscoggins said:

You won't gain capacity bars, so you must have miscounted. Wow, great price!

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Thanks. I'll have to recount when I get in tonight to see if it really is ten or eleven. Once I get the hang of the range expectations, I'm planning on setting the 80% charge mode and doing what I can to keep the batteries cool in the summer months. It sounds like this Leaf Spy is worth looking into as well, to get more granular data, and I'll need to check in with the dealer to see if my VIN is covered under the warranty.

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unless you are right next to the US / Mexico border (think Arizona, NM, Texas) don't bother babying the battery, charge it to 80%, charge it to 100% it won't matter (assuming you drive away before the hottest part of the day). It's the heat that matters most.

dhanson865 said:

unless you are right next to the US / Mexico border (think Arizona, NM, Texas) don't bother babying the battery, charge it to 80%, charge it to 100% it won't matter (assuming you drive away before the hottest part of the day). It's the heat that matters most.

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I'm in Houston, so it's more humid than anything. Right now at work I'm parking in a garage, so that helps keep it cooler in the summer. I'm sitting at ten health bars right now. I was a little worried about limiting the range by only charging to 80%. Thanks for the advice.

docbio said:

dhanson865 said:

unless you are right next to the US / Mexico border (think Arizona, NM, Texas) don't bother babying the battery, charge it to 80%, charge it to 100% it won't matter (assuming you drive away before the hottest part of the day). It's the heat that matters most.

Click to expand...

I'm in Houston, so it's more humid than anything. Right now at work I'm parking in a garage, so that helps keep it cooler in the summer. I'm sitting at ten health bars right now. I was a little worried about limiting the range by only charging to 80%. Thanks for the advice.

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What state you are in matters less than how often it gets hot in the day and stays hot overnight. I live fairly close to Canada but the year I got my Leaf we had fourteen 90 degree days, with lots of hot nights. That's what degrades the battery, and if you get that kind of weather, do "baby" the pack a bit in hot weather.

LeftieBiker said:

docbio said:

dhanson865 said:

unless you are right next to the US / Mexico border (think Arizona, NM, Texas) don't bother babying the battery, charge it to 80%, charge it to 100% it won't matter (assuming you drive away before the hottest part of the day). It's the heat that matters most.

Click to expand...

I'm in Houston, so it's more humid than anything. Right now at work I'm parking in a garage, so that helps keep it cooler in the summer. I'm sitting at ten health bars right now. I was a little worried about limiting the range by only charging to 80%. Thanks for the advice.

Click to expand...

What state you are in matters less than how often it gets hot in the day and stays hot overnight. I live fairly close to Canada but the year I got my Leaf we had fourteen 90 degree days, with lots of hot nights. That's what degrades the battery, and if you get that kind of weather, do "baby" the pack a bit in hot weather.

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It won't help. We had users on this board that lived in Arizona, one babied the pack and lost bars the other drove it hard and heavy and lost the same amount of bars.

was there a difference in aging? Not enough for the person that babied their pack to feel like it was worth the trouble.

sorry I don't have a quote its lost in this 700 page thread http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8802" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In the summers, we get a few days over 100 degrees, and sometimes it might only get down into the 80s at night. I can see using the timer to delay charging until after the car has had some time to cool and the ambient temp has dropped. I definitely noticed the difference in range driving in this morning when it was 67 out as opposed to earlier in the week when it was in the 30s and 40s. I'm very happy with the car so far. I installed my home 220V EVSE last night and it is working well.

It won't help. We had users on this board that lived in Arizona, one babied the pack and lost bars the other drove it hard and heavy and lost the same amount of bars.

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One data point does not a trend make.

LeftieBiker said:

It won't help. We had users on this board that lived in Arizona, one babied the pack and lost bars the other drove it hard and heavy and lost the same amount of bars.

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One data point does not a trend make.

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ever hear of a user here called "stoaty"? He collected tons of data and made a battery degradation model. You don't have to listen to my off the cuff recall of a single case.

http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Battery_Capacity_Loss#Battery_Aging_Model" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; is the wiki version or you can go to the threads http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=10338" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

enjoy your reading and if you wish to poo poo the math please do so on the other thread.

All of this info is very helpful! I too am looking into buying a used Leaf, lured by a love of EVs and the $12k price tag.

On another thread, someone advised against buying a black Leaf if you live in a hot climate. I live in south Louisiana. Would black paint really affect the health and longevity of the battery pack?

awoodw said:

...Would black paint really affect the health and longevity of the battery pack?

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My personal opinion is the impact is relatively small.
The impact of black versus other colors can impact the temperature inside vehicle parked in the sun, but studies of the effect have widely varying results.
It really demands on the overall emissivity of the surfaces impacted by the sun.
But that does not necessarily correlate with just the paint visible light color.
Depending on the paint multiple other colors can be about the same as black.

Buy the color you want.
Don't worry about it

That is what I suspected (though I suspect there may be some debate). Currently the local used car market has a red Leaf and a couple of black Leafs, and I much prefer black. Of course I'll consider battery bars and other factors, too....