Leaf S with Quick Charge vs SV and Amount of charge needed

We are considering a Nissan Leaf S with quick Charge option vs the Nissan Leaf SV without the charge package. I thought the SV had the heat pump and the S didn't, but the dealer stated that the S with quick charge option does have it. I live in Michigan and will be putting about 300 miles per week on the vehicle. Two days a week the trips will be longer - 65 -70 miles roundtrip the others will be 35 miles a day. On the longer days my wife will be passing the dealer and can stop in for a 20 minute quick charge. Most of the options on the S vs SV we don't care about (larger screen, aluminum wheels, etc). But are there any differences mechanically or electrically we should know about? Any other creature comforts? We are used to basic vehicles, but just wanted to be sure we weren't missing anything major. Thanks!

Also, at 300 miles a week, how many kilowatt hours would that be? Is there a good calculator out there to determine that? We will be paying 9 cents a killowatt hour with a second meter installed and off peak charging. So I was hoping to check the cost savings vs our older Ford Focus we will be replacing.

Thanks!!!

John

If you drive inefficiently (e.g. hard acceleration, exceeding the speed limit, going over 60 on freeways) and use heavy climate control you could see 3-4 miles/kWh. If you drive more efficiently you could see 5-7 miles/kWh. Add in 10% in energy loss for L2 charging or 30% for L1 charging. You can do the math from there. For me, I spend about 1 cent/mile on energy vs 13 cents/mile for the Corolla I used to have.

Johninmi said:

We are considering a Nissan Leaf S with quick Charge option vs the Nissan Leaf SV without the charge package. I thought the SV had the heat pump and the S didn't, but the dealer stated that the S with quick charge option does have it. I live in Michigan and will be putting about 300 miles per week on the vehicle. Two days a week the trips will be longer - 65 -70 miles roundtrip the others will be 35 miles a day. On the longer days my wife will be passing the dealer and can stop in for a 20 minute quick charge. Most of the options on the S vs SV we don't care about (larger screen, aluminum wheels, etc). But are there any differences mechanically or electrically we should know about? Any other creature comforts? We are used to basic vehicles, but just wanted to be sure we weren't missing anything major. Thanks!

Also, at 300 miles a week, how many kilowatt hours would that be? Is there a good calculator out there to determine that? We will be paying 9 cents a killowatt hour with a second meter installed and off peak charging. So I was hoping to check the cost savings vs our older Ford Focus we will be replacing.

Thanks!!!

John

Click to expand...

with 9 cents per kWh you operating cost will be 2-3 cents per mile

typically on average I get 4 kWh on a good amount of freeway driving and light heater use (now this was the resistance heater too and no heated seats to supplement).

Loss on the Level 1 supplied unit has been pegged at 78% (so a loss of 22%). Level 2 units vary but their target efficiency is 85-92%. I would pick 90% since most are around that amount (so a loss of 10%).

Johninmi said:

We are considering a Nissan Leaf S with quick Charge option vs the Nissan Leaf SV without the charge package. I thought the SV had the heat pump and the S didn't, but the dealer stated that the S with quick charge option does have it.
John

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I don't think that the dealer is correct. I believe that both versions of the S have the resistance heater.

I also pay $0.09/kWh to charge my LEAF, and with my driving average of a little above 5 mi/kWh, I estimate $0.02/mi for fuel cost, which includes AC use. If I am forced to use the resistance heater when it gets cold, I'm sure it will go up, but not above $0.03/mile (as NasGoreList stated above).

4 miles/kWh is a good rough estimate for mixed driving (and drivers). So, 300/4 = 75 kWh per week, times $0.09 (nice!) = $6.75 / week, or $27 / month. Not bad at all, especially since you be quick charging up to 25% of that for free (at least for the first two years). So call it $25 a month, tops!

I went from an SL to an S and do miss the bigger screen, but nothing else.

I assume you are talking new 2014-2015 models. They have the same battery and motor. The QC Package on the S includes the 6.6 KW charger and the QC Port. The SV will have nicer features for timers, CARWINGS, NAV, 6.6 KW charger. SV will not have the QC port (2015), unless you can find one with the LED/QC Port package.

So if QC charging will be important to you then go with the S w/ the QC package. Around here (central VA) there are no QC stations. If you are in an area like mine, go with the SV.

I would get both the upgraded heat pump (which I believe is NOT available on the S, no matter if it has QC or not) and the QC. You will need the heat pump for more efficient winter driving. I have the old resistive heater, and I can easily get 2.5-3 mi/KWh in the winter. And don't believe all the people in the south suggesting that you can get up to 7 mi/KWh. I've only gotten that driving less than 35 mph, and only in the high summer.

Johninmi said:

We are considering a Nissan Leaf S with quick Charge option vs the Nissan Leaf SV without the charge package. I thought the SV had the heat pump and the S didn't, but the dealer stated that the S with quick charge option does have it. I live in Michigan and will be putting about 300 miles per week on the vehicle. Two days a week the trips will be longer - 65 -70 miles roundtrip the others will be 35 miles a day. On the longer days my wife will be passing the dealer and can stop in for a 20 minute quick charge. Most of the options on the S vs SV we don't care about (larger screen, aluminum wheels, etc). But are there any differences mechanically or electrically we should know about? Any other creature comforts? We are used to basic vehicles, but just wanted to be sure we weren't missing anything major. Thanks!

Also, at 300 miles a week, how many kilowatt hours would that be? Is there a good calculator out there to determine that? We will be paying 9 cents a killowatt hour with a second meter installed and off peak charging. So I was hoping to check the cost savings vs our older Ford Focus we will be replacing.

Thanks!!!

John

Click to expand...

Yay another Michigan Leaf! Lansing Leafer here. Michigan Represent!

I think the choice is simple. Get the Leaf S with the QC if you are going 65-70 miles round trip and the dealership is along your route. You will need the energey every time you make that longer trip in the winter. When it was below zero for a few weeks straight last winter I was only able to get ~40 miles or so of range with the heat running 'normally' (70-74F) in my 2013 SV.

I did not opt for the 2013 Leaf S with QC but the 2013 SV with no QC instead. I did this because in 2013 there was only ONE QC in the entire state of Michigan, now there are two. Even then, it wasnt until the last month or so that Ann Arbor Nissan installed a QC. I still wont get one on my future Leaf because unless there is a QC in my area or along a long distance route I take it has no value.

CMYK4Life said:

I did this because in 2013 there was only ONE QC in the entire state of Michigan, now there are two. Even then, it wasnt until the last month or so that Ann Arbor Nissan installed a QC.

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I'm reminded once again of

1. How spoiled we are in the Bay Area and a few other regions of the country, and
2. How "pathetic" Nissan's creation of a quick-charging infrastructure has been as a whole.

A little bit off-topic and a large topic unto itself, but I take every chance I can to point out the second point. Yes, the LEAF is meant to be mostly a 'city car', but if you're going to make the QC option available, wouldn't you want to support it as well and professionally as possible... with widespread, accessible and highly reliable chargers? Here's to seeing rapid improvements on that front in the near future.

--------------

Ok then, back to our regularly scheduled programming... Where were we? Oh yeah, fuel costs for 300 mile weeks should go from (roughly) $25 per week for a 40-mpg Ford Focus to $25 per month for a LEAF. Or about $900 savings per year! And that doesn't include maintenance savings or possible savings from free quick charging.

mbender said:

CMYK4Life said:

I did this because in 2013 there was only ONE QC in the entire state of Michigan, now there are two. Even then, it wasnt until the last month or so that Ann Arbor Nissan installed a QC.

Click to expand...

I'm reminded once again of

1. How spoiled we are in the Bay Area and a few other regions of the country, and
2. How "pathetic" Nissan's creation of a quick-charging infrastructure has been as a whole.

A little bit off-topic and a large topic unto itself, but I take every chance I can to point out the second point. Yes, the LEAF is meant to be mostly a 'city car', but if you're going to make the QC option available, wouldn't you want to support it as well and professionally as possible... with widespread, accessible and highly reliable chargers? Here's to seeing rapid improvements on that front in the near future.

--------------

Ok then, back to our regularly scheduled programming... Where were we? Oh yeah, fuel costs for 300 mile weeks should go from (roughly) $25 per week for a 40-mpg Ford Focus to $25 per month for a LEAF. Or about $900 savings per year! And that doesn't include maintenance savings or possible savings from free quick charging.

Click to expand...

I will say that I am perplexed as well that Tesla, selling the single Model S, can have infrastructure to drive it from one end of the country to the other and all the other "plug-in" manufacturers "won't" get enough QC chargers to support minimal touring needs outside of CA.

mbender said:

CMYK4Life said:

I did this because in 2013 there was only ONE QC in the entire state of Michigan, now there are two. Even then, it wasnt until the last month or so that Ann Arbor Nissan installed a QC.

Click to expand...

I'm reminded once again of

1. How spoiled we are in the Bay Area and a few other regions of the country, and
2. How "pathetic" Nissan's creation of a quick-charging infrastructure has been as a whole.

A little bit off-topic and a large topic unto itself, but I take every chance I can to point out the second point. Yes, the LEAF is meant to be mostly a 'city car', but if you're going to make the QC option available, wouldn't you want to support it as well and professionally as possible... with widespread, accessible and highly reliable chargers? Here's to seeing rapid improvements on that front in the near future.

--------------

Ok then, back to our regularly scheduled programming... Where were we? Oh yeah, fuel costs for 300 mile weeks should go from (roughly) $25 per week for a 40-mpg Ford Focus to $25 per month for a LEAF. Or about $900 savings per year! And that doesn't include maintenance savings or possible savings from free quick charging.

Click to expand...

I agree, the amount of charging infastructure in my state leaves much to be desired. I see myself as an EV ambassadar in my community but EV's a much arder 'sell' because I cant drive across the state, or even between two large cities in a reasonable amount of time. I think my position in EV discussions would carry more weight if there were at least a few well placed QC stations along the main East-West highways (I-94, I-96, I-69).

I agree this car is not intended for 'long' trips however most people dont feel a trip from Detroit to Lansing or Lansing to Flint is a 'long' trip. 1-2 QC stations between these locations would be a game changer. Michigan has a lot of land so the distnace between large cities tends to be a healthy 60-80 miles.

Since there seems to be some uncertainty, the specs for 2015 models:

http://www.nissanusa.com/electric-cars/leaf/versions-specs/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

S model: no "hybrid heater system" (heat pump) heater.

SV model: no QC without the LED + QC package

Reddy said:

...And don't believe all the people in the south suggesting that you can get up to 7 mi/KWh. I've only gotten that driving less than 35 mph, and only in the high summer.

Click to expand...

This. They have real winter in Michigan and mileage efficiencies in the 3 miles/kWh range can be expected at times. A lot depends on typical speeds, weather, and heater use.

With a Level 2 home EVSE one could expect 90% charge efficiency (and about 75% using Level 1, 120 Volts). So, if the OP averaged 4 miles/kWh over a year and charged with a Level 2 (240 Volts) EVSE, the mileage from the "wall" would be about 4.4 miles/kWh or ~0.23 kWh per mile. So, 300 miles x 0.23 = 69 kWh; 69 kWh x 9¢/kWh = $6.21 per week. This cost would likely be a bit greater in the winter and a bit less in summer.

It is also useful to know that the LEAF can be preheated while plugged-in, so that you can get into a warm car (and reduce the use of the cabin heater while driving). This would also increase the electricity cost somewhat, although it should be a fairly small factor.

60-65 mile trips in winter may not be practical. Even if you plan to rely on a dealer QC station (do they really have one?), what if it is broken — happens a lot — or blocked by another car? Be sure to have a "plan B" for en route charging; even Level 2 charge stations will do, but they will take longer.

Johninmi said:

We are considering a Nissan Leaf S with quick Charge option vs the Nissan Leaf SV without the charge package. I thought the SV had the heat pump and the S didn't, but the dealer stated that the S with quick charge option does have it. I live in Michigan and will be putting about 300 miles per week on the vehicle. Two days a week the trips will be longer - 65 -70 miles roundtrip the others will be 35 miles a day. On the longer days my wife will be passing the dealer and can stop in for a 20 minute quick charge. Most of the options on the S vs SV we don't care about (larger screen, aluminum wheels, etc). But are there any differences mechanically or electrically we should know about? Any other creature comforts? We are used to basic vehicles, but just wanted to be sure we weren't missing anything major. Thanks!

Also, at 300 miles a week, how many kilowatt hours would that be? Is there a good calculator out there to determine that? We will be paying 9 cents a killowatt hour with a second meter installed and off peak charging. So I was hoping to check the cost savings vs our older Ford Focus we will be replacing.

Thanks!!!

John

Click to expand...

Get the 6kW charger option - I would have gone for this if it had been available. Possibly forgo the DCFC if money is very tight, but recommend having DCFC. The heat pump would help, but heated seats are nice (almost makes up for no cabin heating).

The fancy navigation system is nice, but the locations of chargers is always weeks or months out of date (plugshare.com is almost always current, and has an app for Android, and probably iOS). I've disabled Bluetooth - it breaks BT connections between my phone and BT headset. I like being able to play MP3s from a USB thumb drive, although there seems to be a problem when a file crosses a 1GB boundary.

The 2012 Nav system asks for permission to send data to Nissan with every vehicle start - very annoying: Number 1 peeve. The 2014 loaner with basic entertainment did not have this "feature". I'd be happy with the basic entertainment system as long as I can play from USB, but I didn't have the loaner long enough to figure all the in's and out's - didn't quite work properly the first time, and I stuck with the radio after that.

Johninmi said:

We are considering a Nissan Leaf S with quick Charge option vs the Nissan Leaf SV without the charge package. I thought the SV had the heat pump and the S didn't, but the dealer stated that the S with quick charge option does have it. I live in Michigan and will be putting about 300 miles per week on the vehicle. Two days a week the trips will be longer - 65 -70 miles roundtrip the others will be 35 miles a day. On the longer days my wife will be passing the dealer and can stop in for a 20 minute quick charge. Most of the options on the S vs SV we don't care about (larger screen, aluminum wheels, etc). But are there any differences mechanically or electrically we should know about? Any other creature comforts? We are used to basic vehicles, but just wanted to be sure we weren't missing anything major. Thanks!

Also, at 300 miles a week, how many kilowatt hours would that be? Is there a good calculator out there to determine that? We will be paying 9 cents a killowatt hour with a second meter installed and off peak charging. So I was hoping to check the cost savings vs our older Ford Focus we will be replacing.

Thanks!!!

John

Click to expand...

your dealer lied. save your money. get the S with the charge package

Jut to reiterate, no S has the heat pump heater, only the SV and SL do. Having a heat pump will make a difference in your range when temps are above the mid-teens, but at temps below that the car will be using the same resistance heater that is all the S has. So, your range will benefit in early spring/late fall or on warmer winter days, but not when it's really cold. As others have said, you may well only see 40 miles or less range on single-digit or sub-zero days with snow on the roads and extensive heater/defroster use.

For your circumstances I'd recommend getting a BEV that when plugged in can heat the battery up to room temperature, which will boost its winter range. The LEAF's battery heater doesn't do this, it only protects it from freezing. So, you might want to consider a Ford Focus EV (especially with the recent price drop), or wait a bit and hope Kia decides to sell the Soul EV in your area sooner rather than later. Or just avoid the problem and get a Volt or Fusion/C-Max Energi PHEV, if any of those meet your other needs.

Thanks everyone for your replies! I didn't have internet this weekend, so coming back to this is pretty cool! I also asked the dealer if they can get a hold of an SV with the LED/ Quick Charge option. Looks like they can get one. It's $328 a month so a bit high, but looks pretty good.

Thanks for asking the question OP

I have similar question :
It looks like if you upgrade the Leaf S Base Model to the Quick Charge port, you upgrade from the 3.6 Kw to the 6.6 Kwh charger as well?

The amount of bad advice, especially early on, here was disturbing. So is the fact that dealers/salespeople routinely lie, but that's old news for many of us. GRA and a couple of others tried to make the point that you need the heatpump-equipped SV for Winter commutes, even though range in the absolute coldest weather won't be substantially greater than with the S model. Nonetheless, the heatpump does contribute to heater output down to 5F or so, and this isn't to be dismissed. Most Winter weather, even in cold locales, falls within the heatpump's usable range. Not really mentioned, IIRC, is the fact that if you have to rely on QC for your commute, you will heartily regret it. QC stations regularly fail, and even more regularly get used by other people when you need them. Get the SV, with as few options as you need. If you need QC to commute, don't get a Leaf.

tmac said:

Thanks for asking the question OP

I have similar question :
It looks like if you upgrade the Leaf S Base Model to the Quick Charge port, you upgrade from the 3.6 Kw to the 6.6 Kwh charger as well?

Click to expand...

Correct.