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golfcart

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Sorry if this is posted already but I didn't see it anywhere when I searched "Nissan Energy".

Nissan to create an electric vehicle ecosystem that will allow for V2H, V2B, and V2G as well as battery storage from old depleted packs. This is the first I've seen this for Nissan USA.

https://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/releases/nissan-to-create-electric-vehicle-ecosystem?page=1

This would seal the deal on me buying a Gen2 or later Leaf. V2H with my solar panels and a Leaf would be a dream come true. Lets hope it gets implemented well.
 
I'm glad Nissan is doing this but honestly, I think this is one place where I would trust an independent third party more than Nissan. At least once the battery is out of the car.

If the battery is still in the car (I guess that is what V2* means afterall.....) then yeah, go Nissan. It does raise the question of how much degradation the extra cycling would cause.

If I went down this path I think I would do it with a cheap 'worn out' battery or one from a wrecked car in which case the battery would be a stand-alone device and wouldn't need any Nissan proprietary equipment.
 
goldbrick said:
I'm glad Nissan is doing this but honestly, I think this is one place where I would trust an independent third party more than Nissan. At least once the battery is out of the car.

If the battery is still in the car (I guess that is what V2* means afterall.....) then yeah, go Nissan. It does raise the question of how much degradation the extra cycling would cause.

If I went down this path I think I would do it with a cheap 'worn out' battery or one from a wrecked car in which case the battery would be a stand-alone device and wouldn't need any Nissan proprietary equipment.

Extra cycling effects; minimal. Realize that V2H does not involve the abuse of power surges to over 100 KW or swings to regen to nearly -60 KW...

Its all about a smooth quiet and cool drawdown of power. Its about as night and day as you can get.
 
Extra cycling effects; minimal. Realize that V2H does not involve the abuse of power surges to over 100 KW or swings to regen to nearly -60 KW.

In Japan, where this is already being done, excessive degradation is being reported. I'm explaining something that is already being seen (degradation of the packs), not speculating on what might or might not happen.
 
LeftieBiker said:
Extra cycling effects; minimal. Realize that V2H does not involve the abuse of power surges to over 100 KW or swings to regen to nearly -60 KW.

In Japan, where this is already being done, excessive degradation is being reported. I'm explaining something that is already being seen (degradation of the packs), not speculating on what might or might not happen.

Considering the background noise of "normal" degradation, I wonder how they can tell? It would be somewhat easier if people in specific regions had shared experiences but that does not seem to be the norm.
 
V2X concepts are certainly not new. Systems of hardware/software approved by Nissan for the Leaf that satisfies warranty conditions would be very interesting and useful - especially if affordable. I've yet to find any specific information about such US based systems that have been offered by Nissan for the Leaf - anyone??

Many (myself included) do see advantages of using EVs as energy storage devices (especially combined with home solar). Having "approved" systems for US based EVs would help bring it out of the "DIY" realm into the mainstream. The "marriage" of intermittent solar renewable energy with the (eventual) massive amounts of EV energy storage will likely be part of the answer to "cleaning up" our Nations' energy systems.
 
LeftieBiker said:
I think that using air-cooled packs for this is a big mistake. They will degrade from the stationary cycling in hot weather.

That's a fair concern. What level of increased degradation are they seeing compared to a regular pack that isn't connected to the grid?

I'm personally not in this for optimizing a TOU plan. I just want emergency backup power during outages that is quiet, clean, and seamless so I'm not as concerned about that as some of y'all might be who live in areas that have higher rates and strong TOU incentives.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
So Nissan has already started this in the US? What exactly was the first step?

I've only seen that bulletin so that's all I know. They've been doing it on some level already in Japan and the UK if I'm not mistaken so it's not a stretch for them to do it here.

If you believe the auto blogs they will officially announce it at CES along with the new leaf. I guess we'll know in a couple weeks for sure.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
LeftieBiker said:
Extra cycling effects; minimal. Realize that V2H does not involve the abuse of power surges to over 100 KW or swings to regen to nearly -60 KW.

In Japan, where this is already being done, excessive degradation is being reported. I'm explaining something that is already being seen (degradation of the packs), not speculating on what might or might not happen.

Considering the background noise of "normal" degradation, I wonder how they can tell? It would be somewhat easier if people in specific regions had shared experiences but that does not seem to be the norm.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/nissan.leaf.owners.group/permalink/1408059445931559/?comment_id=1408063692597801&reply_comment_id=1408073719263465 (unfortunately a "closed" FB group) has a pointer to someone in Japan who got a replacement battery under capacity warranty (they hit 8 bars in time) for their '13 Leaf in March 2017. He said his car was "registered" September 2013.

He has a pic of his car showing 8 capacity bars at 41799 km (~25972 miles) and all 12 again at 42104 km.

They said they were running a V2H system, Leaf to Home. His current location (not sure of it back then) was listed as Kawasaki-shi
Kanagawa. See https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kawasaki,+Kanagawa+Prefecture,+Japan/, for reference.

(Was amazed that this is one of the few times that Facebook's search actually worked and turned up the result I needed. I knew I'd seen a post of a Japanese Leaf driver w/excessive degradation probably due to his V2H system but didn't remember when and which group..)
 
cwerdna said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
LeftieBiker said:
In Japan, where this is already being done, excessive degradation is being reported. I'm explaining something that is already being seen (degradation of the packs), not speculating on what might or might not happen.

Considering the background noise of "normal" degradation, I wonder how they can tell? It would be somewhat easier if people in specific regions had shared experiences but that does not seem to be the norm.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/nissan.leaf.owners.group/permalink/1408059445931559/?comment_id=1408063692597801&reply_comment_id=1408073719263465 (unfortunately a "closed" FB group) has a pointer to someone in Japan who got a replacement battery under capacity warranty (they hit 8 bars in time) for their '13 Leaf in March 2017. He said his car was "registered" September 2013.

He has a pic of his car showing 8 capacity bars at 41799 km (~25972 miles) and all 12 again at 42104 km.

They said they were running a V2H system, Leaf to Home. His current location (not sure of it back then) was listed as Kawasaki-shi
Kanagawa. See https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kawasaki,+Kanagawa+Prefecture,+Japan/, for reference.

(Was amazed that this is one of the few times that Facebook's search actually worked and turned up the result I needed. I knew I'd seen a post of a Japanese Leaf driver w/excessive degradation probably due to his V2H system but didn't remember when and which group..)

How many V2 systems are out there and if there is more than a handful, it would seem like this would be bigger news?
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
How many V2 systems are out there and if there is more than a handful, it would seem like this would be bigger news?
AFAIK, they're only in Japan. At the interview I pointed to at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=504949#p504949, there are supposedly 7,000 such setups in Japan.

However, I have no idea what forums Japanese Leafers tend to hang out on but they're likely primarily in Japanese, which I can't read. And, in the Leaf FB groups I'm on, it's not like folks pre-announce that they have a V2H system and are down x capacity bars. And, there's an incredible about of CHAdeMO over there (https://www.chademo.com/ says 7400 stations in Japan) along w/lower highways speed limits, so range on a single charge is likely less important.

And (I don't know the details, someone will have to fill in the gaps), apparently, there's virtually no demand for used cars there (talked to a guy from college who lived in Japan for awhile and did have a used BMW 8-series there). https://www.nytimes.com/1993/09/12/world/why-the-cars-in-japan-look-just-like-new.html from 1993 talks about the inspection system and
In the United States, 64.1 percent of passenger cars in 1991 were at least five years old. In Japan, only 46.8 percent were. In the United States, 30.5 percent of cars were at least 10 years old, versus 9.6 percent in Japan.

With little demand for used cars, cars here lose their value quickly. "A car more than six years old and in very good condition you can easily see in a junkyard," said Hiroshige Hanabusa, who makes a living helping people with the administrative chores associated with their cars.

Many of the used cars find their way to other nations, where they are considered bargains. In New Zealand, used Japanese cars are cutting so heavily into sales of new cars that auto dealers and assemblers have complained to the Government. And Russians can't get enough of old Japanese cars. Taking Cars Home to Moscow
Google for no demand for used cars in japan years.
https://www.quora.com/Why-does-Japan-export-used-cars has some info.

I have no idea how accurate these are regarding "shaken" over there:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor-vehicle_inspection_(Japan)
https://jalopnik.com/my-first-japanese-shaken-1631615164/1631622802 which points to https://oppositelock.kinja.com/my-first-japanese-shaken-1631615164

So, the above factors also might skew how long Japanese Leafers keep their cars vs. those in the US.

I'm still at 11 bars on my 5/2013 built used Leaf past 62K miles w/SOH now hovering around 82.xx to 83.xx%. As a reminder, at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=496269#p496269, I pointed to a Phoenician w/the same build month as me who lost his 4th bar on 8/23/16 at 31.4K miles.
 
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