2018 Leaf Quick Charge

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simply

Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2018
Messages
17
Hi everyone, I have a 2018 SL that I’ve been quick charging from time to time from about 30% or so and I haven’t seen 50 kW on my dash. The most I have seen is 27kW. I’m not having good feelings that this car on a long trip is going to charge fully in 30 mins or even an hour. When I do charge I get 80A 400V but inside I’m reading 27kW.

Thoughts?
 
Can you post some Plugshare locations of where you're DC charging at?

Some don't have high max wattages and some of them will not charge at full power if some modules in the DC FC fail.
 
It's not realistic to expect a full charge in half an hour, or even an hour if the battery is low. The charge tapers, so even at a full 50kw you will get less than that in an hour. QC stops are best for getting up to 80% charge.
 
@simply Based on your profile, you haven't owned a LEAF before, nor perhaps any EV.

Based on that assumption, there's a bit of a learning curve to the charging strategy for longer trips.

Like @LeftieBiker said, charging to 100% takes too long...

Typically, as long as there is opportunity along the route you choose, you want to charge to 100% before you leave, then drive until the SOC is around 20% and charge up to 80% at each DCQC. Repeat that cycle every 100 miles or so (2018 LEAF), until you reach your destination. Overall, using that approach minimizes your total charging time for the trip.
 
cwerdna said:
Can you post some Plugshare locations of where you're DC charging at?

Some don't have high max wattages and some of them will not charge at full power if some modules in the DC FC fail.

Here are three examples thanks @cwerdn

https://www.plugshare.com/location/1947
https://www.plugshare.com/location/15703
https://www.plugshare.com/location/1956
 
It's becoming clear from new UK Leaf 2 owners that there is a major problem with the 40kWh battery overheating on long trips. After 1 or two quick charges the car throttles the charge rate back to 22kW regardless of SOC.

What this means is that the new Leaf is 3 hours slower over 400 miles than the outgoing 30kWh model. Bear in mind it's still not far above freezing in the UK so this will be far worse in warm parts of the USA during summer.

https://speakev.com/threads/worried-about-leaf-2-rapid-charging-rate.101025/
 
Eddiec said:
It's becoming clear from new UK Leaf 2 owners that there is a major problem with the 40kWh battery overheating on long trips. After 1 or two quick charges the car throttles the charge rate back to 22kW regardless of SOC.

What this means is that the new Leaf is 3 hours slower over 400 miles than the outgoing 30kWh model. Bear in mind it's still not far above freezing in the UK so this will be far worse in warm parts of the USA during summer.

https://speakev.com/threads/worried-about-leaf-2-rapid-charging-rate.101025/

I seem to recall the man in the video above saying specifically that the battery was NOT getting hot - that the reduced charge rate had no obvious cause other than the car deciding to throttle it back.
 
Sounds like slow charger to me. They come in all speeds. EVGO used to all be 100 amps (some were even lower) but most have been upgraded but strangely not all run the same speed. Some at110, 120, 121, 124, 130.... weird...
 
Not about a slow charger, but a slow charger would do the same slow problem.

The Nissan Leaf doesn't have active thermal management, and hasn't have it since the first Leaf was released. I ordered the Leaf before it was in production and cancelled the order because of the heat issues were already revealed in areas with warm temps like Arizona.

The other cars built by Renault/Nissan have battery thermal management. The Ioniq, the Teslas, the BMW i3 etc, are managing battery thermal management but Nissan is in denial. What a great shame! Pity for the Leaf owners and buyers. :evil:
 
simply said:
Hi everyone, I have a 2018 SL that I’ve been quick charging from time to time from about 30% or so and I haven’t seen 50 kW on my dash. The most I have seen is 27kW. I’m not having good feelings that this car on a long trip is going to charge fully in 30 mins or even an hour. When I do charge I get 80A 400V but inside I’m reading 27kW.

Thoughts?
400 V * 80 A = 32 kW
So your question is where is the difference going.
Perhaps ~ 10% of the 32 kW is lost in AC -> DC
And your battery heating up is energy lost -- I presume resistance losses inside the battery

Net 27 kW energy stored sounds pretty ball-park.
If you are wondering why 32 kW from the meter, that is probably explained by the battery temperature. Nissan throttles the QC speed at temperatures much over 24 C
 
Beleaf said:
mps like Arizona.
.....
The other cars built by Renault/Nissan have battery thermal management. The Ioniq, the Teslas, the BMW i3 etc, are managing battery thermal management but Nissan is in denial. What a great shame! Pity for the Leaf owners and buyers. :evil:
Heck, even the small Nissan eNV-200 van has thermal management, why not in the Leaf :?
 
simply said:
Hi everyone, I have a 2018 SL that I’ve been quick charging from time to time from about 30% or so and I haven’t seen 50 kW on my dash. The most I have seen is 27kW. I’m not having good feelings that this car on a long trip is going to charge fully in 30 mins or even an hour. When I do charge I get 80A 400V but inside I’m reading 27kW.

Thoughts?

SageBrush said:
So your question is where is the difference going.
Perhaps ~ 10% of the 32 kW is lost in AC -> DC

Not a good guess. QC uses DC as its source voltage (no AC)!

SageBrush said:
And your battery heating up is energy lost -- I presume resistance losses inside the battery

Yes, the other source of battery heat besides the ambient temp, a good guess.

SageBrush said:
If you are wondering why 32 kW from the meter, that is probably explained by the battery temperature. Nissan throttles the QC speed at temperatures much over 24 C
Another good guess, i.e. reducing the charging current over time!

Note: Some on MNL post without an ad hominem!
 
lorenfb said:
SageBrush said:
Perhaps ~ 10% of the 32 kW is lost in AC -> DC
Not a good guess. QC uses DC as its source voltage (no AC)!
The metered electricity is AC. There **is** a conversion to DC, but it happens outside the car in a QC like ChaDemo

This is not a guess, it is just a rudimentary understanding of EV charging. Try getting to that level at least, before you try to play know-it-all.
 
You like to twist your statements when you're incorrect.

SageBrush said:
lorenfb said:
SageBrush said:
Perhaps ~ 10% of the 32 kW is lost in AC -> DC
Not a good guess. QC uses DC as its source voltage (no AC)!
The metered electricity is AC. There **is** a conversion to DC, but it happens outside the car in a QC like ChaDemo

This is not a guess, it is just a rudimentary understanding of EV charging. Try getting to that level at least, before you try to play know-it-all.


simply said:
Hi everyone, I have a 2018 SL that I’ve been quick charging from time to time from about 30% or so and I haven’t seen 50 kW on my dash. The most I have seen is 27kW. I’m not having good feelings that this car on a long trip is going to charge fully in 30 mins or even an hour. When I do charge I get 80A 400V but inside I’m reading 27kW.

Thoughts?

SageBrush said:
400 V * 80 A = 32 kW
So your question is where is the difference going.
Perhaps ~ 10% of the 32 kW is lost in AC -> DC
Net 27 kW energy stored sounds pretty ball-park.
If you are wondering why 32 kW from the meter, that is probably explained by the battery temperature. Nissan throttles the QC speed at temperatures much over 24 C




There is NO AC entering the vehicle when DCFC is occuring! The DCFC device supplies only DC. The BMS module in the vehicle controls
the amount of charging current. There is very little power loss in the BMS as it charges the battery. Any power loss results from the
heating of the battery (internal resistance losses). The losses of the DCFC unit as it supplies DC voltage to the vehicle are unknown
to the user.
 
Turns out the new Leaf has a very aggressive fast charging tapering profile...to the point that a 30 kWh Leaf and an 28 kWh Ioniq Electric could beat the new Leaf in a 400 mile road trip by hours!

https://pushevs.com/2018/03/18/2018-...-electric-car/

Yet another great engineering decision by Nissan. Who needs active TMS?
 
lorenfb said:
There is NO AC entering the vehicle when DCFC is occuring!
That is correct.
The original question was why the ChaDemo charger reports 80A * 400V yet only 27 kW into battery.
So of 32 kW paid for, 27 kW net into battery.

About 15% losses, mostly a result of AC->DC and resistance losses.
----
From an AC grid, there will always be AC -> DC related losses because our batteries store DC energy.
In a QC it occurs outside the car in the QC charger, while an L1 or L2 "AC EVSE" will let the car's on-board charger (OBC) handle the task.
 
SageBrush said:
simply said:
Hi everyone, I have a 2018 SL that I’ve been quick charging from time to time from about 30% or so and I haven’t seen 50 kW on my dash. The most I have seen is 27kW. I’m not having good feelings that this car on a long trip is going to charge fully in 30 mins or even an hour. When I do charge I get 80A 400V but inside I’m reading 27kW.

Thoughts?
400 V * 80 A = 32 kW
So your question is where is the difference going.
Perhaps ~ 10% of the 32 kW is lost in AC -> DC
And your battery heating up is energy lost -- I presume resistance losses inside the battery

Net 27 kW energy stored sounds pretty ball-park.
If you are wondering why 32 kW from the meter, that is probably explained by the battery temperature. Nissan throttles the QC speed at temperatures much over 24 C

WOW!!

I figured you would know enough to get ONE thing right...
 
SageBrush said:
lorenfb said:
SageBrush said:
Perhaps ~ 10% of the 32 kW is lost in AC -> DC
Not a good guess. QC uses DC as its source voltage (no AC)!
The metered electricity is AC. There **is** a conversion to DC, but it happens outside the car in a QC like ChaDemo

This is not a guess, it is just a rudimentary understanding of EV charging. Try getting to that level at least, before you try to play know-it-all.

WOW!! This getting better and better!
 
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