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OrientExpress
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Posts: 1200
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:22 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2331
Location: San Jose, Ca

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:07 am

edatokrun:

Thank you for your reply as I think it hits the nail on the head perfectly both for Tesla's abilities as a manufacturer and Nissan's pioneering efforts in bringing affordable EV's to market.

Tesla has the potential to either flame out spectacularly or become a great 21st-century success story. Right now, it is leaning toward the former than the latter. Its cash burn is phenomenal, and its forecasts for production are unrealistic to all but the naive who rely on blogs to get their information. Let's have the conversation about Tesla's abilities this time next year when both the money and excuses will have run out. As a Telsa long-term stockholder, I hope for the best for them, but the industry-based part of me is pessimistic at this time.

As for Nissan, seven years ago with the introduction of the LEAF, Nissan pioneered the modern mass-market EV, and the first generation LEAF has shown to be a well-built reliable car. But despite their best intentions, they found that what was originally thought to be an edge case of traction battery heat degradation turned out to be a flaw in the original traction battery design. Combine that with the start of some of the hottest weather in the US on record, and the head of their US product marketing making durability claims that turned out not to be accurate left a bad taste with some.

Fast forward to today, and we see that Nissan has learned much about making EVs in the last seven years and have addressed the areas for improvement extremely well.

Five years ago the head of Nissan's Product Marketing group got sacked for being a bit too optimistic.

Four years ago they re-engineered their traction battery to provide a much higher level of reliability, beefed up the warranty on that battery to remedy the edge case problems that will crop up and have significantly mitigated the traction battery reliability issues that plagued the early cars.

And for those that chose to buy their early Gen 1 LEAFs, last year Nissan has rolled out a targeted traction battery replacement program that is fair and balanced to help these early owners breathe new life in their cars.

With the reveal of LEAF2 just a few hours away, Nissan will up its game in its EV technology and how they stand behind their product. They are the leaders in mass-market affordable value-driven EVs and have no intention of ceding that crown.

I'm on my way to Las Vegas today, and can hardly wait to see the new car in the flesh tomorrow evening and drive it on Wednesday.

And for those that insist on reliving those teething issues that the early cars had, I say, "Please get over it and move on." You do yourself a great disservice in relitigating what happened many years ago.
2018 LEAF SL
Gun Metalic
Delivery April 10 2018

Prior LEAF:
2014 LEAF SV
Ocean Blue
Delivery May 23 2014
50,000+ miles - all 12 bars - Same range as new - No warranty issues ever!

SageBrush
Posts: 2488
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:21 am

OrientExpress wrote:Fast forward to today, and we see that Nissan has learned much about making EVs in the last seven years and have addressed the areas for improvement extremely well.

Four years ago they re-engineered their traction battery to provide a much higher level of reliability, beefed up the warranty on that battery to remedy the edge case problems that will crop up and have significantly mitigated the traction battery reliability issues that plagued the early cars.

And then there is reality
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=23606

Now, about your rose colored take on Nissan Corporate:
When the heat related degradation was well established, Nissan issued public denial after public denial
A class-action lawsuit eventually lead to a crappy degradation warranty
For YEARS thereafter Nissan refused financial assistance to owners just days or miles past 5/60k with batteries below 65% capacity of new.
Only in the past year has that corporate policy changed to a case by case decision. Each prospective buyer will have to decide for themselves how much the 'change of heart' is a bit of beefing up their shred reputation in preparation for the the LEAF2 debut.
Last edited by SageBrush on Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

User avatar
OrientExpress
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Posts: 1200
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:22 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2331
Location: San Jose, Ca

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:25 am

SageBrush wrote:And then there is reality
http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=23606


Thanks for agreeing with my comments.
2018 LEAF SL
Gun Metalic
Delivery April 10 2018

Prior LEAF:
2014 LEAF SV
Ocean Blue
Delivery May 23 2014
50,000+ miles - all 12 bars - Same range as new - No warranty issues ever!

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jhm614
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Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:48 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000493
Location: Arlington, TX

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:34 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
TonyWilliams wrote:Just to clarify, the statement by OrientExpress is his usual wrong information, correct?

Tesla has not said anything about "Jan 2018 customer" deliveries, and there's no link to another forum with such a quote, correct?


My bet? Nissan will beat Tesla to market (I mean the real market) with a yet to be announced product. ;)


CUV? Level 5 Auto? Something to complete with Roadster 2.0? Inquiring minds want to know...
2011 Brilliant Silver SL - 110,000 gasoline free miles so far.
4BL: 06/29/13 @ 27 months, 43,520 miles, 42.56 Ahr. New 12 bar battery: 09/09/13
4BLx2:12/31/16 @ 69 months, 99,475 miles, 42.99 Ahr.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 12989
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:35 am

SageBrush wrote:
OrientExpress wrote:Fast forward to today, and we see that Nissan has learned much about making EVs in the last seven years and have addressed the areas for improvement extremely well.

Four years ago they re-engineered their traction battery to provide a much higher level of reliability, beefed up the warranty on that battery to remedy the edge case problems that will crop up and have significantly mitigated the traction battery reliability issues that plagued the early cars.

And then there is reality
http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=23606


Another technical misstep. first off the line new pack, new config, etc. But the warranty will cover him and cover him well. Unfortunate? Yes. Unusual? No... not by a long shot. Manufacturers make mistakes all the time. They discover it, fix it, move on. The reality is the capacity warranty means the fix is already in place.

Already speculated that early 30 kwh packs were well... probably not as planned but also speculated that the issue seems to be resolved. This guy is in Florida so blame it on the hot weather? Well how does that work for the guy in OR having the same issues with his early 30 kwh LEAF?

But then again we have other 30 kwh LEAFs in hot weather with later builds doing fine at twice the miles. Go back to the 24 kwh packs. We have people in AZ who had the 2011 and a 2015 LEAF and they claim a much better battery exists. Maybe its too early to make claims but some 2015's are in their 3rd Summer. Only took one Summer for the 2011's but I guess we shall see.

In closing; I can't remember a car company stepping up like Nissan has in addressing out of warranty battery issues. Its unprecedented in scope but I have to admit; until EVs and hybrids came along, I didn't follow car companies or cars.

In closing; The comment about manufacturers constantly making mistakes? Having relatives in the car business, I hear SHOCKING stories of willful neglect from several manufacturers, two in particular. They put out a product they know is defective but literally hoping for the best... Its all about getting return for that advertising buck! Its amazing to me our level of complacency with gassers in light of our over the top indignation over everything electric.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 5775 miles, 488 GIDs, 38 kwh 113.37 Ahr available, SOH 98.21, Hx 115.75
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 12989
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:40 am

jhm614 wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
TonyWilliams wrote:Just to clarify, the statement by OrientExpress is his usual wrong information, correct?

Tesla has not said anything about "Jan 2018 customer" deliveries, and there's no link to another forum with such a quote, correct?


My bet? Nissan will beat Tesla to market (I mean the real market) with a yet to be announced product. ;)


CUV? Level 5 Auto? Something to complete with Roadster 2.0? Inquiring minds want to know...


Nothing exotic like that. The patterns are pretty clear. Tesla announces product far in advance of availability while Nissan does not. No predictions on nationwide availability for the 2018 but I expect key markets to see 2018's on the lot BEFORE HALLOWEEN... well before.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 5775 miles, 488 GIDs, 38 kwh 113.37 Ahr available, SOH 98.21, Hx 115.75
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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OrientExpress
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Posts: 1200
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:22 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2331
Location: San Jose, Ca

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:11 am

SageBrush wrote:Now, about your rose colored take on Nissan Corporate:
When the heat related degradation was well established, Nissan issued public denial after public denial
A class-action lawsuit eventually lead to a crappy degradation warranty
For YEARS thereafter Nissan refused financial assistance to owners just days or miles past 5/60k with batteries below 65% capacity of new.
Only in the past year has that corporate policy changed to a case by case decision. Each prospective buyer will have to decide for themselves how much the 'change of heart' is a bit of beefing up their shred reputation in preparation for the the LEAF2 debut.


SageBrush, I bet you still hold a grudge about the South losing the War of Northern Aggression. Bless your heart! :D
2018 LEAF SL
Gun Metalic
Delivery April 10 2018

Prior LEAF:
2014 LEAF SV
Ocean Blue
Delivery May 23 2014
50,000+ miles - all 12 bars - Same range as new - No warranty issues ever!

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evnow
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Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:41 am
Delivery Date: 25 Feb 2011
Leaf Number: 303
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:39 am

SageBrush wrote:Easy for me, I didn't spend $30k on a Gen1 LEAF that makes those promises look like a joke.
But why wouldn't a smart shopper remember than Nissan lied to and screwed generations of owners ?

Despite all advice to the contrary some people bought their Leafs. They weren't being smart - but emotional. Most of us leased.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
Volt : 3/25/2017 to ?

SageBrush
Posts: 2488
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:42 am

evnow wrote:
SageBrush wrote:Easy for me, I didn't spend $30k on a Gen1 LEAF that makes those promises look like a joke.
But why wouldn't a smart shopper remember than Nissan lied to and screwed generations of owners ?

Despite all advice to the contrary some people bought their Leafs. They weren't being smart - but emotional. Most of us leased.

I'm leery of ascribing emotions to an entire group when a simple explanation exists: they believed Nissan
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

User avatar
OrientExpress
Forum Supporter
Posts: 1200
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:22 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2331
Location: San Jose, Ca

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:15 am

SageBrush wrote:I'm leery of ascribing emotions to an entire group when a simple explanation exists: they believed Nissan


Or they don't understand the risk in buying into a new 1st generation technology is a shared responsibility and that there will always be teething issues that may take time to solve.
2018 LEAF SL
Gun Metalic
Delivery April 10 2018

Prior LEAF:
2014 LEAF SV
Ocean Blue
Delivery May 23 2014
50,000+ miles - all 12 bars - Same range as new - No warranty issues ever!

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