DNAinaGoodWay
Well-known member
If nothing else changes, and the next LEAF is 48kWh, it would take an hour to QC in summer and two hours in winter.
LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)
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desiv
Well-known member
Well, that goes for any car with about 48kWh of battery using Chademo.DNAinaGoodWay said:
And of course, assumes:
-Your car is near empty
-QC stations don't upgrade (as I understand it, Chademo supports higher power in the standard)
-It takes twice as long in the winter, which isn't my experience. Although that can depend, I guess, on your definition of "winter."
Even Tesla owners are getting Chademo adapters, so it can't be that bad. Heck, it will take them even LONGER to charge. ;-)
desiv
dgpcolorado
Well-known member
If they aren't taking advantage of the 100-130 kW of the Supercharger stations, is it really Supercharging? I suppose Nissan could buy into the system for dialed down charging — so I take your point — but that still doesn't make them competitive for long distance travel IMO. It certainly wouldn't suffice for my needs.pkulak said:
If Tesla and the Supercharger network are successful, it will be interesting to see what Nissan (and the others) will do. My guess is that Nissan will stay with models limited to local/regional travel and the rather kludgy Chademo system, because that range covers the large majority of most driver's needs. I certainly expect that for "LEAF 2", at least. After 2020, I don't know what will happen.
dhanson865
Well-known member
dgpcolorado said:
In a perverse way you could call anything over 20KW supercharging. Since there is no car on the market with more than 20KW of chargers built in. Tesla might say it has to be faster than the average chademo charger?
BTW even a 85 kWh Model S will drop down to below 20KW late in the supercharging session.
dgpcolorado
Well-known member
Yes. The strategy when hopping from Supercharger to Supercharger on a long trip is to arrive at a low SOC then charge just enough to make the next one plus a small buffer of miles of range. That way nearly all of the charging is in the bottom half of the SOC so the charge rate is mostly at the peak. The Model III can be expected to be a bit slower to charge than the S85 due to the smaller battery size, although it should get a bit better miles/kWh to compensate.dhanson865 said:
The downside of trying to use Chademo chargers in the same fashion is that the risk of the charger you need being in use or broken is much higher, due to the lack of redundancy at each location.
minispeed
Well-known member
desiv said:
I used a chamedo almost every day this winter (well work days). My strategy was to drive in early and charge hot. Temps got down below -30C. The battery was almost always above freezing, usually at +1 or +2 by the time I got to the chamedo, approx. 42 miles and usually above 30% SOC. Charge speeds were not noticeably short. I would aim to be up to 70% in under 30 min, sometimes I was cutting it off at the high 60s but those days were mostly due to me running late rather than a slow charge. I'd say my avg charge time was just over 20 min. The battery was usually at 4-7C after a session. The few times I tried the QC cold after work it was very slow but the battery would heat as using it and it sped up.
To assume that a cold chamedo will run at the slow cold speed for the full 3 hr charge is wrong. It 's also super easy to add heat to the pack even as an option or an afterthought to speed winter QC. It's also a pretty valid assumption that needed QC sessions will take place after the car has driven through a good chunk of it's SOC, so in a 2nd gen BEV that will be at least 60 miles in the winter.
DNAinaGoodWay
Well-known member
True. This is the value of a forum, any statement can be picked apart and examined. Thanks all, you teach me so much.
CHAdeMO is still sparse here, only one unit per site, too often hindered by malfunctions, and I don't travel enough to use that much of what there is, so my experience is limited.
Currently, my main need is for driving people to and from Logan Airport in Boston, 60 miles one way, almost all highway. The QC nearest Logan right now is a 20 kW ABB and I use the full hour allowed and sometimes finish at a nearby L2 if needed and time allows. So far, I've been lucky enough that it wasn't ICE'd, or totally malfunctioning (it's had minor issues, but Greenlots excellent customer service was able to overcome them and get it going again) and I've made it home in all weather conditions. Much easier with the '15.
Now if I had 48 kWh, I could make the trip without any public charging at all, or at worst, just a few minutes top up, hopefully on the MA Pike, when they finally get around to installing them.
But I'm thinking ahead to having a 48 kWh eNV200 camper conversion and barnstorming around. I'll be happy to use the 20 - 50 kW units, but would prefer to see higher powered CHAdeMO, with multiple units, Tesla style.
CHAdeMO is still sparse here, only one unit per site, too often hindered by malfunctions, and I don't travel enough to use that much of what there is, so my experience is limited.
Currently, my main need is for driving people to and from Logan Airport in Boston, 60 miles one way, almost all highway. The QC nearest Logan right now is a 20 kW ABB and I use the full hour allowed and sometimes finish at a nearby L2 if needed and time allows. So far, I've been lucky enough that it wasn't ICE'd, or totally malfunctioning (it's had minor issues, but Greenlots excellent customer service was able to overcome them and get it going again) and I've made it home in all weather conditions. Much easier with the '15.
Now if I had 48 kWh, I could make the trip without any public charging at all, or at worst, just a few minutes top up, hopefully on the MA Pike, when they finally get around to installing them.
But I'm thinking ahead to having a 48 kWh eNV200 camper conversion and barnstorming around. I'll be happy to use the 20 - 50 kW units, but would prefer to see higher powered CHAdeMO, with multiple units, Tesla style.
asimba2
Well-known member
The Nissan Invitation shows up as a future vehicle on the Nissan website. The new Toyota vehicles are getting uglier and uglier, but I like the direction Nissan is going. Hopefully the LEAF looks something like this.
The production version will likely have larger wheel gaps, but hopefully they aren't enormous like our current LEAF.
The production version will likely have larger wheel gaps, but hopefully they aren't enormous like our current LEAF.
LeafMuranoDriver
Well-known member
asimba2 - Thanks for the pic. I like it! Good improvements over Gen1 but I know it won't be exact.
DanCar
Well-known member
Which Nissan invitation is that?asimba2 said:
jhm614
Well-known member
DanCar said:
http://www.nissanusa.com/future-and-concept-vehicles/invitation?next=header.future_concept.postcard.overview.link" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Although, that's an ICE concept.
asimba2
Well-known member
LeafMuranoDriver said:
It's an ICE car, not the LEAF 2.0. I was just saying I hope the next gen LEAF looks as good as some of the other new Nissans.
DanCar
Well-known member
The current leaf is based on the Nissan Versa, so I expect the future to be the same. I agree that car looks nice. 
evnow
Well-known member
The myth lives on ...DanCar said:
DanCar
Well-known member
http://www.pluginamerica.org/vehicles/nissan-leaf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Nissan LEAF was built from the ground up to be an EV. It is a 5-seater, 4-door hatchback based on Versa/Tiida platform.
http://www.torquenews.com/1080/where-your-nissan-leaf-came" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The next year, the Electric Vehicle went into a second-generation, this time based on a Nissan Versa and referred to by Nissan as the EV-12. It's pictured above and is visually the most LEAF-like and was what eventually lead to the LEAF being based on the Versa's platform and chassis.
The Nissan LEAF was built from the ground up to be an EV. It is a 5-seater, 4-door hatchback based on Versa/Tiida platform.
http://www.torquenews.com/1080/where-your-nissan-leaf-came" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The next year, the Electric Vehicle went into a second-generation, this time based on a Nissan Versa and referred to by Nissan as the EV-12. It's pictured above and is visually the most LEAF-like and was what eventually lead to the LEAF being based on the Versa's platform and chassis.
GetOffYourGas
Well-known member
This Invitation looks like a mashup of the Versa and the Bolt to me. The choice of color and the glass roof don't help.
ishiyakazuo
Well-known member
Because the Internet says it, it must be true...DanCar said:
Christopher
Well-known member
Yes, one of so many myths that won't die because it keeps getting "reprinted", but I also still remember the Nissan folks stating otherwise when asked. Part of the confusion is that they did build some early prototypes on the Versa and of course the LEAF has some passing resemblance (tall, squat, hatchback). (At least the Wikipedia entry currently acknowledges that it was the prototype that was built on a Versa.)ishiyakazuo said:Because the Internet says it, it must be true...
Killing this myth is rather hopeless at this point as a web search shows it repeated all over the place now.
Here's the old thread on this topic "LEAF is NOT based on the Versa!":
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1421
Here's at least one "eyewitness" account:
https://greenstreampublishing.wordpress.com/2015/04/17/a-brief-history-of-the-nissan-leaf/
greenstreampublishing.wordpress.com said:
DanCar
Well-known member
From a common sense point of view it doesn't make sense that Nissan would have created something from the ground up for the Leaf. There is money to be saved by using common components like the chassis. If it is not based on the Versa then it is based on something else. If it was a ground up design for EV I don't think we would see compromises like the batteries under the seats.
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