Cor
Posts: 158
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:53 am
Delivery Date: 07 Jul 2015

Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Tue May 24, 2016 9:04 pm

I see a lot of 2011 and 2012 with much reduced range to the point that owners gt rid of the car because it no longer satisfies their needs for daily travel. I expect that it is rather straightforward to drop the battery and bolt a new (2013 or even 2015) pack under a 2011/2012 to regain
the full original range of the vehicle.
I am wondering how many early Leaf owners would pay for example $3000 to get an almost new pack installed (swapped out).

Valdemar
Posts: 2417
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Tue May 24, 2016 9:26 pm

Curious how did you come up with the $3,000 figure?
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB)
59.7AHr, SOH 93%, 118k miles
9kW Solar

Stoaty
Gold Member
Posts: 4460
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:50 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 3871
Location: West Los Angeles

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Tue May 24, 2016 9:49 pm

Where would someone get an "almost new pack" for $3,000 when a new pack costs $5500 plus a bracket for backward compatibility plus tax. This would be close to $7,000 in California.
2011 Leaf with 62,000 miles given to Nephew
2013 Tesla Model S85 with 251 miles rated range at full charge
Leaf Spy Manual
Battery Aging Model Spreadsheet

Valdemar
Posts: 2417
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Tue May 24, 2016 9:59 pm

A new battery is $5,800-$6,000 installed, with surrendering the old one to Nissan. I don't think you can even get one without an old battery you "trade in". And you get all applicable warranties with it. I doubt $3k is a realistic number for a battery from junk yard installed, not to mention that you can't simply swap the batteries, it requires dealer reprogramming the VCM. I see $4-5k is a more realistic number, and you end up with a battery with no warranty, I doubt there will be many takers.
Last edited by Valdemar on Tue May 24, 2016 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB)
59.7AHr, SOH 93%, 118k miles
9kW Solar

Cor
Posts: 158
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:53 am
Delivery Date: 07 Jul 2015

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Tue May 24, 2016 10:35 pm

Hi Valdemar,
$3000 is a made-up number from seeing prices for Salvage 2013-2015 Leafs, taking into account that the remains of the vehicle has some residual value for parting out as well as the old pack still having some value.
Indeed this is without dealer involvement, I was not aware that the VCM needs re-programming, I was hoping for a plug-and-play swap
but apparently that is too optimistic.
There is always the option of opening the 2011/2012 pack shell and swapping the actual cells, but that may again be more effort required than a clean swap. Hmm, I may just gather a Leaf pack for my truck and leave this issue alone, unless someone would like to pursue this together.

Valdemar
Posts: 2417
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Tue May 24, 2016 10:59 pm

Based on what we know module by module swapping is the only DIY route possible, which is obviously more labor intensive. New modules are different than those in 2011/12 cars, so they don't just bolt on, some additional effort will be required to install them. It can be easier to move the battery controller instead.

Finding a complete battery by itself for 2-3k may turn out to be problematic, as if someone take it off they are likely to sell it as individuals modules, currently they go for $100 each give or take, 48 of them in the pack, you do the math.

Sure, if someone buys a wrecked Leaf for a DIY battery swap the numbers should work out well considering they can sell other take off parts, but this is too much of a project for most Leaf owners out there.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB)
59.7AHr, SOH 93%, 118k miles
9kW Solar

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abasile
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Posts: 1920
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:49 am
Delivery Date: 20 Apr 2011
Location: Arrowbear Lake, CA

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Wed May 25, 2016 3:07 pm

I'm not sure I'd want to go through the trouble and expense of replacing the battery in my 2011 unless the new battery has more capacity than the original. So, if Nissan ends up selling 30 kWh batteries as replacements for older cars, I'm more likely to be interested. Even then, with 200 mile "affordable" EVs coming, I'd think twice before spending thousands on a pack with only 30 kWh.
2011 LEAF at 71K miles, pre-owned 2012 Tesla S 85 at 98K miles
LEAF battery: 9/12 bars and < 49 Ah (-28% vs. new)
Tesla battery: 250+ miles of range (-5% vs. new)

Valdemar
Posts: 2417
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Wed May 25, 2016 4:29 pm

Given my recent accident and insurance experience I know I will not buy a new battery unless insurance companies develop a special program ensuring fair compensation for recently installed batteries in EVs in a total loss scenario. I was able to negotiate only about $2k more based on a month old battery in my car on top of their initial offer after my car was declared "total loss". My luck I didn't pay for the battery, it would hurt a lot if I did.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB)
59.7AHr, SOH 93%, 118k miles
9kW Solar

Cor
Posts: 158
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:53 am
Delivery Date: 07 Jul 2015

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Wed May 25, 2016 9:53 pm

Valdemar wrote:Given my recent accident and insurance experience I know I will not buy a new battery unless insurance companies develop a special program ensuring fair compensation for recently installed batteries in EVs in a total loss scenario. I was able to negotiate only about $2k more based on a month old battery in my car on top of their initial offer after my car was declared "total loss". My luck I didn't pay for the battery, it would hurt a lot if I did.

Did you explore the option of keeping the vehicle and selling it privately?
That could have added quite a bit to the return on the new battery value.
If you know what happened to your vehicle (or even if you don't then I would be interested to know the VIN
to see if it shows up on the auction site!

Valdemar
Posts: 2417
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Wed May 25, 2016 10:14 pm

Cor wrote:
Valdemar wrote:Given my recent accident and insurance experience I know I will not buy a new battery unless insurance companies develop a special program ensuring fair compensation for recently installed batteries in EVs in a total loss scenario. I was able to negotiate only about $2k more based on a month old battery in my car on top of their initial offer after my car was declared "total loss". My luck I didn't pay for the battery, it would hurt a lot if I did.

Did you explore the option of keeping the vehicle and selling it privately?
That could have added quite a bit to the return on the new battery value.
If you know what happened to your vehicle (or even if you don't then I would be interested to know the VIN
to see if it shows up on the auction site!


I kept it as the damage wasn't too bad, and ignoring the looks the car is driveable, I have no intention to sell, will fix it up sooner or later if at all. I was lucky I suppose, but considering a hypothetical worst case scenario when the car is trashed most of your battery investment money would go to waste.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB)
59.7AHr, SOH 93%, 118k miles
9kW Solar

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