Thinking about buying a LEAF ~ Massachusetts

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Math2

Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2012
Messages
7
Location
South of Boston
I'm in Massachusetts (south of Boston) and thinking of buying a LEAF, new or used. Our primary car is a 2012 PIP, and our other car is a 2003 Town & Country van. We are starting to have problems with the van, and no longer need a large vehicle, so we are thinking of a new/used second car.

I drive 9 non-highway miles to work, which is great with the PIP, but probably better with a LEAF.

Should I look into new or used? We are thinking used for a second vehicle, but there are not too many of either in my area. Although I did just see TWO in a short 5 miles ride tonight!

What should I be aware of in my purchase? I will NOT go to Quirke, any suggestions?

Thanks,

Joyce
 
Generally look around the site. Lots of good info.

There are great lease deals available, it may be good to lease in case the technology improves over the next few years. In warm climates (Arizona), battery degradation is a major issue. The battery only lasts a couple of years with greatly reduced range before a warranty should kick in. You should be ok in Boston for substantially longer. I leased a Leaf last day of May and its already down to 92% battery capacity. So I can expect the range to be 8% less. Range is heavily impacted by high speeds, ie >55 or >65.

Otherwise its a great car. Should handle your commute well. You'll likely want to use it for all your driving. It does especially well in town and at low speeds.

If you look for used, remember that a new S starts at 28,800, then figure $7500 off on tax rebate so you're at $21k. Figure some wheeling and dealing and you could get a car in the high tens. Some used are running around 18k. For close to that price you can get a new 2013 which has substantial improvements. Watch out for used Leafs coming from Arizona with degraded batteries. There are two sets of bars on the right side of the dash board. The right most thin bar has 12 bars. This indicates the available battery capacity, not how much its charged now, but how much it can possibly hold compared to when it was new. Once a bar is missing thats about 15% capacity loss. Try to avoid cars with lost capacity as it will affect your driving range.
 
Math2 said:
I'm in Massachusetts (south of Boston) and thinking of buying a LEAF, new or used. Our primary car is a 2012 PIP, and our other car is a 2003 Town & Country van. We are starting to have problems with the van, and no longer need a large vehicle, so we are thinking of a new/used second car.

I drive 9 non-highway miles to work, which is great with the PIP, but probably better with a LEAF.

Should I look into new or used? We are thinking used for a second vehicle, but there are not too many of either in my area. Although I did just see TWO in a short 5 miles ride tonight!

What should I be aware of in my purchase? I will NOT go to Quirke, any suggestions?

Thanks,

Joyce

If you can easily afford a used Leaf, that's great - we need people to buy them used. OTOH, if you'd have to borrow money, a Leaf - even a used one - is kind of overkill for your short commute. There are city-oriented electric vehicles for less money.
 
What is a PIP?

I have a new 2013 Leaf. I looked at a used one, a 2011 with only 11883 miles but it was dirty inside, stained arm rests. It was really depressing and they wanted 21K, maybe I could have chewed them down to 18K. Not sure. But as soon as I drove the 2013 I was in Love.

The Leaf is so much fun to drive. My wife bought a new car the same week as me. A 2013 Prius C and every weekend we take the Leaf because its just so much fun.

You may find out that your wife's car gets used a lot less and you will be making excuses to take the Leaf every where.

The only concern I'd have is winter time. I'm in NJ. Pretty close to you. How cold does it get up there? In the teens? Or below. The range of the Leaf is drastically effected by the extreme cold and Heat. But You don't need to worry about the heat though.

Lasareath
 
The only concern I'd have is winter time. I'm in NJ. Pretty close to you. How cold does it get up there? In the teens? Or below. The range of the Leaf is drastically effected by the extreme cold and Heat. But You don't need to worry about the heat though.

Uh, that's correct. With a drive of either 9 or 18 miles, she can blast the heat and/or A/C the whole way and still have plenty of range left. What was your point?
 
Try Marlboro Nissan on Rt. 20. Jim McCall is the Leaf guy, and the internet salesman. You can do the whole deal by email with them, and they're easy to work with. They often get trade Leafs as they sell more Leafs here than others.

Do research as much as you can here, plenty of info on this site.

With your usage, you wont have range issues, even in winter. Good luck.
 
LeftieBiker said:
The only concern I'd have is winter time. I'm in NJ. Pretty close to you. How cold does it get up there? In the teens? Or below. The range of the Leaf is drastically effected by the extreme cold and Heat. But You don't need to worry about the heat though.

Uh, that's correct. With a drive of either 9 or 18 miles, she can blast the heat and/or A/C the whole way and still have plenty of range left. What was your point?

The OP may only drive 9 miles to work each way now, but that may not be the case in the future.

The OP did ask if there was anything to be aware of when purchasing this car, and the heater's impact on usable range is something you have to consider with a BEV especially in cold climates. That's not normally a consideration with an ICEV or even a PHEV.

On that note, here's another thing the OP should be aware of: the heater on the pre-2013 models, and the 2013 Leaf S, uses much more of the battery than the heat pump heater of the 2013 SV and SL models. If the OP is not certain her commute will always be as short as it is now, this is definitely something to consider.
 
If you are interested in a LEAF, I would say lease a 2013 SV for 24-36 months with $0-down. (whichever has the lowest monthly payment). This way you have the best choice in heater for MA, and it will be most efficient incase you decide to use the car more often. As a note, you will use the car more than you think because it is so much fun to drive. Also with a lease you can trade it in or keep it, but you have the knowledge that if a better electric car comes along you are not "stuck" with old technology.

I live north of Boston, and have nothing but positive things to say about my 2013 SV (no options).
 
Lasareath said:
The range of the Leaf is drastically effected by the extreme cold and Heat.

Lasareath
I cannot comment regarding the effects of extreme cold but I do have "extreme" heat and my 2013 SV has not seemed to have suffered any ill effects yet. time will tell
 
Math2 said:
I drive 9 non-highway miles to work, which is great with the PIP, but probably better with a LEAF.
Easy! You can go either new or used, even degraded from AZ. However, unless you can get used for around $15k, or you can't get the $7500 federal tax credit, new works out better. The 2013 has a more efficient heater, but not a problem for your short commute. Similar commute to mine. Read some of my previous posts for more info.
 
apvbguy said:
Lasareath said:
The range of the Leaf is drastically effected by the extreme cold and Heat.

Lasareath
I cannot comment regarding the effects of extreme cold but I do have "extreme" heat and my 2013 SV has not seemed to have suffered any ill effects yet. time will tell

Agreed. We've been having a terribly hot and humid summer in Upstate NY, and running the A/C constantly only subtracts about 2 miles from my range (2013 SV). I've read that this is similar to earlier models, and may actually be worse! It's the heat that hurts range a lot, not the A/C, unless you try to use it to keep your drinks ice cold.
 
Joyce,

What have you decided?, Are you getting Used or New?







Math2 said:
I'm in Massachusetts (south of Boston) and thinking of buying a LEAF, new or used. Our primary car is a 2012 PIP, and our other car is a 2003 Town & Country van. We are starting to have problems with the van, and no longer need a large vehicle, so we are thinking of a new/used second car.

I drive 9 non-highway miles to work, which is great with the PIP, but probably better with a LEAF.

Should I look into new or used? We are thinking used for a second vehicle, but there are not too many of either in my area. Although I did just see TWO in a short 5 miles ride tonight!

What should I be aware of in my purchase? I will NOT go to Quirke, any suggestions?

Thanks,

Joyce
 
So we are looking at a 2012 SL with 2500 miles on it from a dealer. The price is $22,000, which is above the Blue Book value. We will visit and talk to the dealer to see what we can work out.

A new 2013 SL is going for $36,100 - $37,000 so after the $7,500 they would be $28,600 - 29,500. So $22,000 (or less) is still a good price for a barely used car. I did look at the 2013 upgrades, and although they look nice, are they worth $6,000+?

I'm wondering about two things, will the dealer go down to at least the Blue Book value and what I will get for a trade-in on my 2003 Town & Country van (76,500 miles).

When we purchased our Prius Plug-In last October, we did discuss getting a LEAF when we no longer need our van. We have now moved our son out of his dorm for the last time, so I think we are ready to downsize. We purchased the Prius new, and are fine with buying a LEAF used.

We should be visiting the Nissan dealer tomorrow or Saturday.
 
Math2 said:
So we are looking at a 2012 SL with 2500 miles on it from a dealer. The price is $22,000, which is above the Blue Book value. We will visit and talk to the dealer to see what we can work out.
Not a great price and it could definitely be lower, but it is low mileage. Of course dealers want to charge the most and buyers want to pay the least. That's what the market is all about. Good luck at lowering the price. Go in informed and you have a better chance.

See the latest auction thread for the latest pricing: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=8354&hilit=auction&start=210#p310788

Check where the car was located, if MA then you're probably ok on the battery (although it could have been a dealer demo and left at 100% :evil: for the past year which could really have decreased the capacity). You might want to connect with other MNL members in your area and see if you can get the battery checked with any of the fancy CAN bus devices that have been created by MNL members.

If you can wait a couple of months, there should be lots of Leafs coming off lease and the prices may be a bit lower. With your short distances you can go with just about any model or year. The 2013 has the better heater which should be nice, but pre-heating with the 2011 works fine for my short commute. The 2012 has the nice heated seats and battery heater (only turns on when it's extremely cold to protect the battery and probably won't ever be needed unless you have an extreme below zero week, park outside, and don't charge or drive the car).

If cost really is the issue and you can't get the $7500 tax credit for buying new (and don't want to lease new), then you can try to convince the dealer that you know more about the market than they do and are willing to wait it out for a better deal. Then, let them know that the used values are dropping quickly and Nissan is ramping up the new 2013-2014 production. Hint that the dealership is likely to get "stuck" with the out-of-date 2012 for quite a while, and then will have to lower the price anyway to move it off the lot. Show pity on them and offer $18k, maybe even show them a printout of the auction thread. They'll certainly balk, but you can always walk, knowing that prices will come down.

Good luck and remember there are many of us here who paid full MSRP back in 2011.
 
Is that a dealer demo car? A lot of times those were left plugged in and charged at 100% for days and that could be a problem for the battery. Don't forget you don't get any of the $7500 if you buy used. The $7500 is only for the first person/company to put the vehicle into service.
 
ksnogas2112 said:
Is that a dealer demo car? A lot of times those were left plugged in and charged at 100% for days and that could be a problem for the battery. Don't forget you don't get any of the $7500 if you buy used. The $7500 is only for the first person/company to put the vehicle into service.

Technically there are two definitions at work here.

If you buy a car labeled as demo and you are listed as the first owner on the title then two things are true:
1) Your warranty clock started when the car was put into service as a demo
2) For all other purposes the car is a "new" car - this includes the federal tax credit.

However, sometimes what is called a "demo" actually was titled and registered to the dealership (or another corporation on behalf of the dealership). In that case it is a "used" car and no tax credit is available.

The way to know the difference is to ask for the legal document for the car. If it is a Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin (MCO) - sometimes called a Manufacturer's Statement of Origin - then it is a new car and has never been previously owned. If it is a regular state title document then it is used. Usually the dealer will do the titling for you so if in doubt ask before buying. A VIN check can also show whether it has been owned previously.

For the OP it sounds like this car is clearly designated used, so it's not an issue in this case.
 
We ended up getting the used 2012 for $20,000 at Nissan Marlboro. We also got a fair trade for our Town & Country van (79,250 mi). The transaction was excellent, and we were able to drive the LEAF home.
The car was purchased in Md, and used for a couple of months before the owner traded in for a 2013 LEAF. CarFax backed up the story as well.
I have been browsing the LEAF for quite some time now, so it's not that we jumped in blind. Although there is so much now for me to learn! I have tons of questions, which I hope will be answered by reading these message boards.

Since we also have a Plug-In Prius we are now going to install a level 2 charger...hopefully this week.

Thanks for all your input.
 
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