LeftieBiker
Posts: 8375
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:51 pm

It now appears that either there is no difference in battery longevity between early build (2015) 2016 cars and 2017 cars, or the difference is modest. They are ALL more like the 2011-3/2013 pack than the 2015 Lizard pack, or even the pre-Lizard "Wolf pack."* This suggests that the problem with with the chemistry, and that it hasn't been changed. Let's hope it was changed (for the better!) in the 2018 packs.



* I've given the rest of you plenty of time to come up with a better name for the improved 4/2013 through 2014 packs, and you've left it to me. So I'm going with "Wolf pack" because wolves are strong and tough but don't do well in high heat, and because it's a terrible pun.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium and no QC, a 2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, and 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

johnlocke
Posts: 207
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:08 am

I expect to replace the battery by next summer. Until then, I'll have to limp along and recharge in town as necessary. I like the car in general but the battery problem is a deal breaker for me. In retrospect, I should have leased instead of purchasing outright. Even if Nissan replaces the battery twice under warranty, it won't remove the bad taste from my mouth. The 2018 leaves me flat. I expect that battery to have the same issues with heat as the current 30 KWH battery. Maybe the 2019 with a 60 KWH battery will have a TMS and active cooling. If not, then Nissan is out of the running for my next car. There are going to be a lot of competitors in the electric car field in the next few years and Nissan is destroying their reputation by not proactively addressing this problem.

I've got 3 years left to pay on this car. By then, off-lease Model 3's will be available. If I do have to replace the battery twice under warranty, I'll probably sue Nissan under California's "Lemon Law". That's assuming some bright young lawyer hasn't bought a class action suit by then.
2016 SV
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

bedoig
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:20 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Oct 2013

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:12 pm

Down to 72% SOH as of today compared to my last check in at 79% in September. Still haven't lost my second bar though. What a joke. Already starting to get tight on my 66 mile commute, especially as temps drop.

User avatar
drees
Moderator
Posts: 6217
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:51 pm
Location: San Diego

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:03 am

johnlocke wrote:Maybe the 2019 with a 60 KWH battery will have a TMS and active cooling.

The biggest issue is the chemistry - it can't even tolerate moderately warm temperatures. Tesla's chemistry as used on the Model S/X (and hopefully 3), on the other hand can run 30-40C all day while only losing a nominal amount of capacity. In fact, Tesla uses waste heat from the motor, inverter and onboard charger to warm the pack to 30C if available. Turn on range-mode - it'll warm the pack to 40C. The pack has to hit 50C for the car to start actively cooling off the pack.

You run a LEAF pack at those temps constantly and you'll end up getting a new battery under warranty no problem - TMS or not.
'11 LEAF SL Powered By 3.24 kW Enphase Solar PV

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 12792
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:58 am

drees wrote:
johnlocke wrote:Maybe the 2019 with a 60 KWH battery will have a TMS and active cooling.

The biggest issue is the chemistry - it can't even tolerate moderately warm temperatures. Tesla's chemistry as used on the Model S/X (and hopefully 3), on the other hand can run 30-40C all day while only losing a nominal amount of capacity. In fact, Tesla uses waste heat from the motor, inverter and onboard charger to warm the pack to 30C if available. Turn on range-mode - it'll warm the pack to 40C. The pack has to hit 50C for the car to start actively cooling off the pack.

You run a LEAF pack at those temps constantly and you'll end up getting a new battery under warranty no problem - TMS or not.


Now you know why I picked 75º as my alert point to change charging habits on my LEAF...
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 2483 miles, 490 GIDs, 38.2 Ahr available, SOH 99.30, Hx 114.37
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

lorenfb
Posts: 1668
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:13 am

drees wrote:Tesla's chemistry as used on the Model S/X (and hopefully 3), on the other hand can run 30-40C all day while only losing a nominal amount of capacity. In fact, Tesla uses waste heat from the motor, inverter and onboard charger to warm the pack to 30C if available. Turn on range-mode - it'll warm the pack to 40C. The pack has to hit 50C for the car to start actively cooling off the pack.

Where are the Tesla data to confirm this, I.e. when TMS becomes active for the 18650?

iPlug
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 25 Apr 2016
Location: Rocklin, CA

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:58 am

12/12/17
ODO: 16,478 mi
AHr: 53.31
SOH: 67%
GIDs: not recorded
Hx: 65.40%
26 QCs, 535 L1/L2 [9 Capacity Bars]

12/20/17
ODO: 16,703 mi
AHr: 53.21
SOH: 66%
GIDs: 235
Hx: 65.29%
28 QCs, 549 L1/L2 [9 Capacity Bars]

Build month: Nov 2015
Leased: April 2016

10 miles on the car during the ~5 winter months between manufacture and lease.
2016 Leaf SV (leased) + 2012 Plug-in Prius (own), 11.43 kW Solar PV (>15MWh/yr), Two Clipper Creek Level-2 7.7 kW charging stations, PG&E E-6 TOU/Tiered rate plan; 3.70 UEF heat pump water heater

jbuntz
Posts: 89
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2016 5:41 am
Delivery Date: 17 Dec 2016
Leaf Number: 303765
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:14 pm

iPlug wrote:12/12/17
ODO: 16,478 mi
AHr: 53.31
SOH: 67%
GIDs: not recorded
Hx: 65.40%
26 QCs, 535 L1/L2 [9 Capacity Bars]

12/20/17
ODO: 16,703 mi
AHr: 53.21
SOH: 66%
GIDs: 235
Hx: 65.29%
28 QCs, 549 L1/L2 [9 Capacity Bars]

Build month: Nov 2015
Leased: April 2016

10 miles on the car during the ~5 winter months between manufacture and lease.


I used to think my degradation was due to sitting on the hot TX dealer lot all summer, but now I am starting to think it is just time. Mine was built the same month as yours and I am at 67% SOH.
Mfg 11/15 Del 12/16 TX 2016 SL 30kWh,
Date Bar MI GID Ahr SOH
12/23 12 00598 317 68.93 86
05/17 12 05175 324 70.75 89
08/17 11 09245 282 61.68 77
10/17 10 12000 260 57.22 71
01/18 09 15329 244 53.72 68

iPlug
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 25 Apr 2016
Location: Rocklin, CA

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:57 am

jbuntz wrote:I used to think my degradation was due to sitting on the hot TX dealer lot all summer, but now I am starting to think it is just time. Mine was built the same month as yours and I am at 67% SOH.


Agree, this doesn't seem to be purely a temperature issue. Certainly, those in warmer climates appear to be most effected.

We do have hot summers here, but the car has rarely, if ever, been charged under high temperature conditions. It is garaged most of the day and all night, and charged in the garage or other shaded environments, usually at night or the early morning. It also never sat at a full charge in triple digit temperature.

If I were the main driver, perhaps the car would be more babied. But more coddling should not be required of mainstream drivers.
2016 Leaf SV (leased) + 2012 Plug-in Prius (own), 11.43 kW Solar PV (>15MWh/yr), Two Clipper Creek Level-2 7.7 kW charging stations, PG&E E-6 TOU/Tiered rate plan; 3.70 UEF heat pump water heater

User avatar
LTLFTcomposite
Posts: 4425
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:06 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Dec 2011
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Central FL

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:12 pm

Let's face reality, the 30kwh pack is a steaming pile. If we lose the fourth bar soon we could theoretically be on track for five pack replacements under the warranty.

I've also been reading up on the Florida lemon law, it has to be an uncorrected problem within the first two years, but it isn't clear to me what happens if the problem recurs on such a long cycle. Probably no help there but will be looking into it further.

If they offered to swap it out for a Sentra we'd take it in a heartbeat.
LTL
White 2012 SV delivered 10 Dec 2011 returned 25 Nov 2014 replaced with stopgap ICE Sentra
[35 months] [35K miles] [9 Bars]
2013 Volt replaced after 36 months/30k miles with ICE Rogue
2016 SV-adjacent May 2016 lost 4th bar March 2018

Return to “LEAF CANBus”