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TomT
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Re: *NEW* Dash Display for Leaf

Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:09 pm

I, too, vote for raw Gids. A percentage of useable Gids, where 281 (or, better yet, a programmable number for those with capacity loss) is 100% and 7 is 0% would also be nice for those who prefer not to do the math in their head... Yes, I do realize that rampant featuritise is already creeping in!

GregH wrote:I suppose I could add Gids/2.81 if there is high demand for that although as you may have guessed from some of my other posts I'm somewhat opposed to the whole concept. As an absolute number, Gids by itself works pretty well and there are other, newer indications of relative battery health/capacity in the Group 1 data now so the old practice of comparing Gids on a full charge to 281 is somewhat passe.
Last edited by TomT on Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:50 am, edited 2 times in total.
Leaf SL 2011 to 2016, Volt Premier 2016 to 2019, and now:
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Stoaty
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Leaf Number: 3871
Location: West Los Angeles

Re: *NEW* Dash Display for Leaf

Sat Apr 27, 2013 5:06 pm

TomT wrote:I, too, vote for raw Gids.

I don't have a problem with raw Gids (they are a regular part of my diet ;) ), but would like the option to display as Gid percent instead. I used raw Gids for a long time (8 or 9 months), but found that the Gid percent was more intuitive for me (and yes, I know that a full charge will be about 92% for me, so that means I have lost about 8%, a bonus without doing another calculation).
2011 Leaf with 62,000 miles given to Nephew
2013 Tesla Model S85 with 251 miles rated range at full charge
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lincomatic
Posts: 312
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:01 am
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Leaf Number: 3819

Re: *NEW* Dash Display for Leaf

Sat Apr 27, 2013 5:11 pm

I got rid of gid % last year on LeafCAN as well, and got some pushback. I just don't find it useful at all.
With the raw gids, I know exactly where LB and VLB are.

Maybe you could make a long press on let the user switch back & forth.

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JeremyW
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Re: *NEW* Dash Display for Leaf

Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:59 pm

What about raw gids * 78 for 'raw kWh' ?
Former 2012 SL leasee 6/23/12 - 9/23/15
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GregH
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Leaf Number: 26967
Location: Irvine, CA

Re: *NEW* Dash Display for Leaf

Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:13 pm

Stoaty wrote:
TomT wrote:I, too, vote for raw Gids.

I don't have a problem with raw Gids (they are a regular part of my diet ;) ), but would like the option to display as Gid percent instead. I used raw Gids for a long time (8 or 9 months), but found that the Gid percent was more intuitive for me (and yes, I know that a full charge will be about 92% for me, so that means I have lost about 8%, a bonus without doing another calculation).


I find the Gids to be most healthy when uncooked! :lol:
Maybe I'll throw in a hidden menu for the diehards that want to multiply the raw Gids by something else... 0.356 (1/2.81), 0.78 etc.. You could tweak the multiplier monthly so that a full charge was 99 or so.. Oh wait, or you could just display the SOC.. :roll:
'17 blue Volt Premier w/ACC
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Stoaty
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Re: *NEW* Dash Display for Leaf

Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:27 pm

GregH wrote:
Stoaty wrote:I find the Gids to be most healthy when uncooked! :lol:
Maybe I'll throw in a hidden menu for the diehards that want to multiply the raw Gids by something else... 0.356 (1/2.81), 0.78 etc.. You could tweak the multiplier monthly so that a full charge was 99 or so.. Oh wait, or you could just display the SOC.. :roll:

Can we divide by pi? If so, will we be able to enter all of the decimal digits that are known for pi? :lol:
2011 Leaf with 62,000 miles given to Nephew
2013 Tesla Model S85 with 251 miles rated range at full charge
Leaf Spy Manual
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TonyWilliams
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Re: *NEW* Dash Display for Leaf

Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:31 am

lincomatic wrote:I got rid of gid % last year on LeafCAN as well, and got some pushback. I just don't find it useful at all.
With the raw gids, I know exactly where LB and VLB are.



If you can remember 49 and 24, you can remember 17.4% and 8.5% for LBW and VLB, respectively. I want to see percent Gid.

Ya know, this stuff was figured out in aviation long ago (after plenty of crashes). Human factors just do not lend themselves to mental math and memorized numbers.

If I push the power up on that Big Jet 898 for take off, I don't really care if the turbine hot section is turning 123,456 RPM, or the exhaust pressure ratio is 87.654%. I do care that if I need full power, I want to see 100% power on the meter. My ten year old could figure that out. Actually, anybody driving my LEAF could figure out 100%. Even if it said 98.7%, they intuitively know it's mostly full. With 278 Gid displayed, there's nothing intuitive about that any more than 123,456 RPM.

My next adjustment that I've plugged for is Gid2%. I know it's not a big deal for many, but for folks like me who like accuracy and useful data, I want that same meter that reads 100% at max to read 0% when the party is over.

So, specifically, I want it to read the formula that Gary provided:

Full charge = 100 ((Gid - 7) / (281 - 7)) = 100% where Gid is 281

Turtle = 100 ((Gid - 7 ) / ( 281 - 7)) = 0% where Gid is 7


Then I want this percent to display a "Rated Range", just like Tesla:

Range = ((4 * 21) * 100% = 84 miles, which happens to be the exact 2013 LEAF EPA rating for 100% charge. Yes, it would be awesome to be able to select the economy to something other than 4, or nirvana would be to use the actual displayed dash economy since last reset !!! The default would be four.

When the car is at or very close to Turtle (it's not indexed on Gids), then the meter will show 0% and 0 miles.

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garygid
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Re: *NEW* Dash Display for Leaf

Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:33 am

I try to give the user choices, so that new users can try
out the options, and experienced users can select the
"units" that they find most helpful.

Many find %Gids the easiest for themselves to use.

Yes, I have yet to supply the %GID2 value, but I
could easily add it to the choices, or make a
custom firmware for one user who wants it.

I prefer meters that cover the full operational range,
rather than one that has a hidden reserve, so I would
have the GID2 meter show -7 at the bottom, and %Gid2
show a negative percentage when under 7 GIDs.

Cheers, Gary
See SOC/GID-Meter and CAN-Do Info
2010 Prius, now for sale
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DanBaldwin
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Location: Norwalk, CA

Re: *NEW* Dash Display for Leaf; I'll take one

Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:21 am

Looks great, and I love the idea of covering the "tree builder" with something that actually displays useful information :P

If you're looking for a "wish list", I'd like a true DTE or DTT (distance to turtle). When you reset the DTE display, you would wait for tick down (transition) in the GID count. When that occurs you log the GIDs and miles. Then every time you see a transition of the GIDs, you subtract logged miles from current miles, and subtract current GIDs from logged GIDs then miles/GIDs = miles per GID, times GIDs remaining (current GIDs minus turtle GIDs) gives you DTE. That's assuming you have access to at least one of the mile indications.

I'd also love to see the regen/friction brake display thingy.

Do the shunt active bits only come on while charging, and only when charge is near full?

I vote for uncooked GIDs. I don't mind if they are blanched, but I prefer they have at least a little crunch.

Let me know when I can take you some money. Do you take cash with proper ID?

GregH
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Re: *NEW* Dash Display for Leaf

Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:46 am

TonyWilliams wrote:
lincomatic wrote:I got rid of gid % last year on LeafCAN as well, and got some pushback. I just don't find it useful at all.
With the raw gids, I know exactly where LB and VLB are.



If you can remember 49 and 24, you can remember 17.4% and 8.5% for LBW and VLB, respectively. I want to see percent Gid.

Ya know, this stuff was figured out in aviation long ago (after plenty of crashes). Human factors just do not lend themselves to mental math and memorized numbers.

If I push the power up on that Big Jet 898 for take off, I don't really care if the turbine hot section is turning 123,456 RPM, or the exhaust pressure ratio is 87.654%. I do care that if I need full power, I want to see 100% power on the meter. My ten year old could figure that out. Actually, anybody driving my LEAF could figure out 100%. Even if it said 98.7%, they intuitively know it's mostly full. With 278 Gid displayed, there's nothing intuitive about that any more than 123,456 RPM.

My next adjustment that I've plugged for is Gid2%. I know it's not a big deal for many, but for folks like me who like accuracy and useful data, I want that same meter that reads 100% at max to read 0% when the party is over.

So, specifically, I want it to read the formula that Gary provided:

Full charge = 100 ((Gid - 7) / (281 - 7)) = 100% where Gid is 281

Turtle = 100 ((Gid - 7 ) / ( 281 - 7)) = 0% where Gid is 7


Then I want this percent to display a "Rated Range", just like Tesla:

Range = ((4 * 21) * 100% = 84 miles, which happens to be the exact 2013 LEAF EPA rating for 100% charge. Yes, it would be awesome to be able to select the economy to something other than 4, or nirvana would be to use the actual displayed dash economy since last reset !!! The default would be four.

When the car is at or very close to Turtle (it's not indexed on Gids), then the meter will show 0% and 0 miles.


Wow.. you engineers really like to make this complicated! what's the opposite of K.I.S.S.?

Maybe we should get rid of gallons for measuring gasoline and just assume all cars have 10 gallon tanks.. then we can display remaining fuel as a fixed calculated percent like Gid% or Gid2% (or whatever). Gas stations could display % added... :lol:

We could normalize voltage and current also if you wish.. Maybe just display % voltage.. ie, divide by 3.94.. Because really, who wants to have to remember that the Leaf charges to 394V? Maybe normalize all the cell voltages too.. divide them all by 4.1??

Not all Leafs charge to 281.. many don't even come close anymore and who's to say a 2014 Leaf might charge to 320 Gids? The only truly common unit is the raw uncooked Gids. Just as you get accustomed to figuring out how many gid% it takes to get home from work, you can do the same for raw Gids.. it's not hard, it just takes a little familiarization. Similarly the pack voltage graph is extremely helpful down in the low Gid range to see how much juice you really have left. The old RAV4-EVs had this and the turtle mode was tied directly to it.. As long as the voltage was high enough the turtle stayed away..

I'm going Steve Jobs ZEN on this thing, trying to make it simple and intuitive. Things that really are a percentage (like SOC) will be displayed as such, all else will have appropriate units.
'17 blue Volt Premier w/ACC
'12 SL black Leaf
'11 SL blue Leaf
RAV4-EV 2002-2005
Gen1 & Gen2 EV1 1997-2003
PV 2.4Kw, 10kWh lithium battery SCE TOU-DA

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