2016 30 kWh Battery data

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Sadly, this is a known issue with the 30kwh Leafs, and you will likely lose that fourth bar this Summer. That's the good news! The bad news is that your free replacement pack will likely lose capacity just as fast, making buying the car off-less unappealing. To speed the loss of that 4th bar, try to keep the pack "Hot & Full" as much as possible. Then try to keep the new one "Cool & Comfortable" with less than 100% charges except as needed.
 
Apr status report. 241 GID's, 52.70 AH, SOH =66.31%, Hx = 58.08%. 42299 miles. 94 L3 charges, 812 L2 charges. With 3 bars gone already, I'm expecting to lose the 4th bar over the summer probably in July. Oddly enough, increased DCFC charging hasn't seemed to affect anything, nor has L2 charging every time I get home (in case I need to go out again that day). I figure the 4th bar should drop somewhere between 60-63% SOH. I am DCFC'ing 2-3 times a week just to be sure I can get home after running errands. DCFC now starts to taper off the charge rate over 65-70%. Also the charge rate starts a lower value (85-90 amps) then it used to (106 amps when new). At 90% the rate is down to 20 amps. This started after the 3rd bar dropped.
 
May status report. Still hanging in there with 9 bars but it can't be much longer now. 234 GID's 51.35AH SOH 64.72% Hx 56.86% 43750 mi. 104 L3, 849 L2. Range is down to 65 mi. I can make my daily commute OK but not if I have to make any detours. I'm DCFC'ing 2-4 times a week to be sure I can get home OK. Since my NCTC is still good and charging is free, it's more an inconvenience than a problem. If I had to pay for charging though it would be at least $50-75 a month for that much DCFC on EVGo.

I expect the battery to drop the fourth bar at 50 AH or so. End of May or sometime in June is my best guess. Too bad it will be another Crap battery from Nissan. I don't expect it to last any longer than this one so probably a third battery under warranty at 90,000 mi. I had hoped that this car would be good for 150K or more. Not gonna happen. I am going to have to replace this car by the time I pay it off and it won't be worth more than $5K when I get rid of it.
 
johnlocke said:
May status report. Still hanging in there with 9 bars but it can't be much longer now. 234 GID's 51.35AH SOH 64.72% Hx 56.86% 43750 mi. 104 L3, 849 L2. Range is down to 65 mi. I can make my daily commute OK but not if I have to make any detours. I'm DCFC'ing 2-4 times a week to be sure I can get home OK. Since my NCTC is still good and charging is free, it's more an inconvenience than a problem. If I had to pay for charging though it would be at least $50-75 a month for that much DCFC on EVGo.

I expect the battery to drop the fourth bar at 50 AH or so. End of May or sometime in June is my best guess. Too bad it will be another Crap battery from Nissan. I don't expect it to last any longer than this one so probably a third battery under warranty at 90,000 mi. I had hoped that this car would be good for 150K or more. Not gonna happen. I am going to have to replace this car by the time I pay it off and it won't be worth more than $5K when I get rid of it.

Can't believe your pack is still hanging on! You are at 40% capacity loss
 
Stats at 15,138 km
build date 09/16
Ahr = 82.34
SOH = 100%
Hx = 103.09
27.5kWh @ 95% SOC
21mV diff
DCFC rate 48 kW start , 33.5 kW to 92% then tapers down ( this is after the 5th QC today)
Battery temp (worst 122 F after the third DCFC, 118.9 after the fifth)
 
Lost the fourth bar this morning! 44784 mi. 50.68AH SOH = 63.76% Hx = 56.08% 232 GIDs. 109 L3, 869 L2. Called the local Nissan dealer to set up an appointment to verify the condition and start the replacement process. Since I haven't heard anything from Nissan about an improved battery, it seems likely that I will have to do this again at about 90000 mi. I doubt that a replacement battery will last much longer than the original and with 55000 mi left on the warranty I expect to get a second replacement battery for free as well. That will take me out to about 135000 mi before I junk the car. Not what I was hoping for. I had always expected that the battery would fail under warranty but had expected it to last 75000-85000 mi before dying. Then a second battery would have got me to 150000-170000 mi and 8 or 9 years of operation. At that point, I could either sell it or put a new battery in it (hopefully, from a third party manufacturer) and go another 50000 mi or so. That doesn't seem feasible now with batteries that don't last more than 40K or so. I'll likely sell it off after 6 or 7 years for a pittance. Fortunately, I ought to have a much batter selection to choose from by then.
 
johnlocke said:
Since I haven't heard anything from Nissan about an improved battery, it seems likely that I will have to do this again at about 90000 mi.

One must be wondering "what were they thinking?" when they offered a longer capacity warranty. I do suspect there was some sort of defect in a batch of early batteries, and the replacement pack will do better, which may be unfortunate as you might not be able to get another for free.
 
Valdemar said:
johnlocke said:
Since I haven't heard anything from Nissan about an improved battery, it seems likely that I will have to do this again at about 90000 mi.

One must be wondering "what were they thinking?" when they offered a longer capacity warranty. I do suspect there was some sort of defect in a batch of early batteries, and the replacement pack will do better, which may be unfortunate as you might not be able to get another for free.
I'm not so sure about the defective early batch hypothesis unless it was the entire model year '16 and some (to all?) of '17 run. We are seeing signs the model year '17 30 kWh batteries aren't holding up that well either.

I pointed to a '17 1 bar loser at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=527514#p527514 in the Washington DC area.

I could see defective batches but not necessarily just early 30 kWh.
 
More likely Nissan thought that they had corrected the critical flaw in the packs or BMS for '17, but were mistaken. Cwerdna, do you know if the '17 BMS behaves any differently than the '16?
 
Valdemar said:
johnlocke said:
Since I haven't heard anything from Nissan about an improved battery, it seems likely that I will have to do this again at about 90000 mi.

One must be wondering "what were they thinking?" when they offered a longer capacity warranty. I do suspect there was some sort of defect in a batch of early batteries, and the replacement pack will do better, which may be unfortunate as you might not be able to get another for free.

Other than possible charging/BMS practices with "some" regional distinctions, there is no evidence of any kind indicating a "line" of good packs and bad packs chronologically.
 
LeftieBiker said:
More likely Nissan thought that they had corrected the critical flaw in the packs or BMS for '17, but were mistaken. Cwerdna, do you know if the '17 BMS behaves any differently than the '16?

VERY unlikely since the noise did not reach a din until late 2016 giving little time for Nissan to react combined with their major focus not being on the product at hand but the product of the then near future.
 
If not a defective batch then they must have knowingly signed up for 1 or potentially 2 warranty replacements in hotter areas. I just cannot believe they didn't have the data after the original 11/12 pack debacle. Who knows, perhaps they ran the numbers and between the lower battery manufacturing costs and EV credits they still come out ahead overall, and it was simply a business decision.
 
Valdemar said:
If not a defective batch then they must have knowingly signed up for 1 or potentially 2 warranty replacements in hotter areas. I just cannot believe they didn't have the data after the original 11/12 pack debacle. Who knows, perhaps they ran the numbers and between the lower battery manufacturing costs and EV credits they still come out ahead overall, and it was simply a business decision.

I'm leaning towards this theory too, especially since they can use the "defective" packs in their new line of refurbished packs (possible as 24kwh replacements?).
 
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
Valdemar said:
If not a defective batch then they must have knowingly signed up for 1 or potentially 2 warranty replacements in hotter areas. I just cannot believe they didn't have the data after the original 11/12 pack debacle. Who knows, perhaps they ran the numbers and between the lower battery manufacturing costs and EV credits they still come out ahead overall, and it was simply a business decision.

I'm leaning towards this theory too, especially since they can use the "defective" packs in their new line of refurbished packs (possible as 24kwh replacements?).

Very good point.
 
Valdemar said:
If not a defective batch then they must have knowingly signed up for 1 or potentially 2 warranty replacements in hotter areas. I just cannot believe they didn't have the data after the original 11/12 pack debacle. Who knows, perhaps they ran the numbers and between the lower battery manufacturing costs and EV credits they still come out ahead overall, and it was simply a business decision.
Remember that this is a world-wide decision on their part. We are not hearing about battery failures in Europe or Japan so Nissan has probably decided to just bear the warranty costs. That is much cheaper than issuing a recall to replace defective batteries. First, it spreads the costs out over a longer period. Second, only obvious failures will be replaced so marginal batteries will remain in service. Third, you still have to go through the warranty process which will deter some and some procrastinators will time out on the warranty.

Nissan doesn't seem to care about their reputation as an EV builder so I have to assume that the Leaf is ultimately just a compliance car built to allow Nissan to sell larger ICE vehicles like trucks and SUV's with much higher margins in the US. Leafs do well enough in Europe and Japan and maybe their plan is to cede the US market to Tesla and GM.
 
johnlocke said:
Valdemar said:
If not a defective batch then they must have knowingly signed up for 1 or potentially 2 warranty replacements in hotter areas. I just cannot believe they didn't have the data after the original 11/12 pack debacle. Who knows, perhaps they ran the numbers and between the lower battery manufacturing costs and EV credits they still come out ahead overall, and it was simply a business decision.
Remember that this is a world-wide decision on their part. We are not hearing about battery failures in Europe or Japan so Nissan has probably decided to just bear the warranty costs. That is much cheaper than issuing a recall to replace defective batteries. First, it spreads the costs out over a longer period. Second, only obvious failures will be replaced so marginal batteries will remain in service. Third, you still have to go through the warranty process which will deter some and some procrastinators will time out on the warranty.

Nissan doesn't seem to care about their reputation as an EV builder so I have to assume that the Leaf is ultimately just a compliance car built to allow Nissan to sell larger ICE vehicles like trucks and SUV's with much higher margins in the US. Leafs do well enough in Europe and Japan and maybe their plan is to cede the US market to Tesla and GM.

Are you saying this was a defective batch?
 
johnlocke said:
Valdemar said:
If not a defective batch then they must have knowingly signed up for 1 or potentially 2 warranty replacements in hotter areas. I just cannot believe they didn't have the data after the original 11/12 pack debacle. Who knows, perhaps they ran the numbers and between the lower battery manufacturing costs and EV credits they still come out ahead overall, and it was simply a business decision.
Remember that this is a world-wide decision on their part. We are not hearing about battery failures in Europe or Japan so Nissan has probably decided to just bear the warranty costs. That is much cheaper than issuing a recall to replace defective batteries. First, it spreads the costs out over a longer period. Second, only obvious failures will be replaced so marginal batteries will remain in service. Third, you still have to go through the warranty process which will deter some and some procrastinators will time out on the warranty.

Nissan doesn't seem to care about their reputation as an EV builder so I have to assume that the Leaf is ultimately just a compliance car built to allow Nissan to sell larger ICE vehicles like trucks and SUV's with much higher margins in the US. Leafs do well enough in Europe and Japan and maybe their plan is to cede the US market to Tesla and GM.

We also need to consider that a LOT of 30 kwh packs are performing very well. We seem to have taken the stance that the 30 kwh pack is a complete failure which is quite removed from reality.

So the question becomes a recall to gather several dozen packs sold in certain locations over simply budgeting 100 replacements? 200 replacements?

No way to predict the future but my pack was on pace to EASILY have 12 bars at 100,000 miles and I wasn't alone.
 
Valdemar said:
johnlocke said:
Valdemar said:
If not a defective batch then they must have knowingly signed up for 1 or potentially 2 warranty replacements in hotter areas. I just cannot believe they didn't have the data after the original 11/12 pack debacle. Who knows, perhaps they ran the numbers and between the lower battery manufacturing costs and EV credits they still come out ahead overall, and it was simply a business decision.
Remember that this is a world-wide decision on their part. We are not hearing about battery failures in Europe or Japan so Nissan has probably decided to just bear the warranty costs. That is much cheaper than issuing a recall to replace defective batteries. First, it spreads the costs out over a longer period. Second, only obvious failures will be replaced so marginal batteries will remain in service. Third, you still have to go through the warranty process which will deter some and some procrastinators will time out on the warranty.

Nissan doesn't seem to care about their reputation as an EV builder so I have to assume that the Leaf is ultimately just a compliance car built to allow Nissan to sell larger ICE vehicles like trucks and SUV's with much higher margins in the US. Leafs do well enough in Europe and Japan and maybe their plan is to cede the US market to Tesla and GM.

Are you saying this was a defective batch?
No, What I'm saying is that this is a design flaw and appears to affect all the 30 KWH batteries. They aren't heat tolerant enough for the South and Southwest U.S. Whether we see some early failures in the Midwestern states is still uncertain but we do have reports of some loss of capacity already. If you live in an area with short summers or highs of less than 90 degrees, there's a likelihood that your battery will last significantly longer. On the other hand, there's an eight year, 100k warranty period so Nissan has increased exposure. There could be a high failure rate toward the end of the warranty period even in areas with mild climates. We are two years into an eight year warranty period and we have already started to see warranty failures. A lot of the 24KWh packs made it to the 5 year mark without triggering the warranty. They are still degraded, just not badly enough to trigger a replacement.

Even if your battery does last for 100,000 miles, odds are that it will still be significantly degraded (70% or less) at that point. For most people that's not really acceptable. Even Nissan has said that the battery is only expected to retain 80% at 100k. It appears that 60-65% is the warranty trigger point. Will you be happy with with a 20KWH car?
 
johnlocke said:
Valdemar said:
johnlocke said:
Remember that this is a world-wide decision on their part. We are not hearing about battery failures in Europe or Japan so Nissan has probably decided to just bear the warranty costs. That is much cheaper than issuing a recall to replace defective batteries. First, it spreads the costs out over a longer period. Second, only obvious failures will be replaced so marginal batteries will remain in service. Third, you still have to go through the warranty process which will deter some and some procrastinators will time out on the warranty.

Nissan doesn't seem to care about their reputation as an EV builder so I have to assume that the Leaf is ultimately just a compliance car built to allow Nissan to sell larger ICE vehicles like trucks and SUV's with much higher margins in the US. Leafs do well enough in Europe and Japan and maybe their plan is to cede the US market to Tesla and GM.

Are you saying this was a defective batch?
No, What I'm saying is that this is a design flaw and appears to affect all the 30 KWH batteries. They aren't heat tolerant enough for the South and Southwest U.S. Whether we see some early failures in the Midwestern states is still uncertain but we do have reports of some loss of capacity already. If you live in an area with short summers or highs of less than 90 degrees, there's a likelihood that your battery will last significantly longer. On the other hand, there's an eight year, 100k warranty period so Nissan has increased exposure. There could be a high failure rate toward the end of the warranty period even in areas with mild climates. We are two years into an eight year warranty period and we have already started to see warranty failures. A lot of the 24KWh packs made it to the 5 year mark without triggering the warranty. They are still degraded, just not badly enough to trigger a replacement.

Even if your battery does last for 100,000 miles, odds are that it will still be significantly degraded (70% or less) at that point. For most people that's not really acceptable. Even Nissan has said that the battery is only expected to retain 80% at 100k. It appears that 60-65% is the warranty trigger point. Will you be happy with with a 20KWH car?

Heat is not the only factor since there are plenty of degrading packs in my area as well. In fact, I made a MAJOR change in charging habits based on a conversation with another who had early 2016 SV and saw almost 10% degradation under 10,000 miles and 6 months. Luckily I got my S30 a month before 2017's came out so I was able to practice these habits almost immediately.

My pack was well on its way to 100,000 miles with 12 bars intact. I love the extra range of my 2018 but can't help but wonder what we could have found out had I still had my S30
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
johnlocke said:
Valdemar said:
Are you saying this was a defective batch?
No, What I'm saying is that this is a design flaw and appears to affect all the 30 KWH batteries. They aren't heat tolerant enough for the South and Southwest U.S. Whether we see some early failures in the Midwestern states is still uncertain but we do have reports of some loss of capacity already. If you live in an area with short summers or highs of less than 90 degrees, there's a likelihood that your battery will last significantly longer. On the other hand, there's an eight year, 100k warranty period so Nissan has increased exposure. There could be a high failure rate toward the end of the warranty period even in areas with mild climates. We are two years into an eight year warranty period and we have already started to see warranty failures. A lot of the 24KWh packs made it to the 5 year mark without triggering the warranty. They are still degraded, just not badly enough to trigger a replacement.

Even if your battery does last for 100,000 miles, odds are that it will still be significantly degraded (70% or less) at that point. For most people that's not really acceptable. Even Nissan has said that the battery is only expected to retain 80% at 100k. It appears that 60-65% is the warranty trigger point. Will you be happy with with a 20KWH car?

Heat is not the only factor since there are plenty of degrading packs in my area as well. In fact, I made a MAJOR change in charging habits based on a conversation with another who had early 2016 SV and saw almost 10% degradation under 10,000 miles and 6 months. Luckily I got my S30 a month before 2017's came out so I was able to practice these habits almost immediately.

My pack was well on its way to 100,000 miles with 12 bars intact. I love the extra range of my 2018 but can't help but wonder what we could have found out had I still had my S30
I personally don't think that charging habits make much of a difference unless you leave the car at 100% charge for several days at a time. There are people on this forum who religiously charge to 80% and still show significant degradation and others who charge to 100% routinely without problem. Time and Temperature seem to be the only consistent factors. The 30KWH packs are only 2 1/2 years old at max and most are less than 2 years old. Early failures in Arizona, Texas, and Florida sure point to temperature as a major cause. The fact that you live in the Northwest probably has more to do with your battery's condition than your charging habits. If there are any people in Phoenix or Dallas following your charging recommendations, I would love to hear their experiences and what their battery conditions are.

Given Nissan's propensity to fiddle with the values of those bars, you could be down to 80% and still show 12 bars. Nissan turned what could have been a useful gauge into a glorified idiot light. As it stands now, they might as well change it to a single red light that says "change battery". Light comes on, change the battery. No point in any thing else since 4 bars gone is the only criteria for warranty repairs and the loss of range by the "guess-o-meter" is a better estimate of battery condition than the battery condition gauge.
 
Back
Top