Leaf Spy and Leaf Spy Pro

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calverajarda said:
Hi,
i have problem about consumption. I dont know what is right.
Yesterday driven 26km - car shows 12,4kwh/100km its 3224Wh
With leaf spy at start capacity 16,1kwh, at end 12,2kwh its 3900Wh
Consumption wit Leaf Spy135,1Wh/km - its 3512Wh
Whats right?
I searching true conusmtipon kwh/100km with clima, heating etc.
Thanks.
An exact Wh is not going to be possible. They are all estimates. A battery is not like a gas tank.

LeafSpy uses two different ways to calculate Wh used. One is based on a change in Gids and the other is based on battery energy level changes.

Wh per Gid is not a precise number. The default is 77.5 Wh per Gid but you can change that in Settings/Battery. Also Gids when SOC is high seem to have less energy than Gids when SOC is low. After a full change the first bar goes away pretty quickly compared to later in the drive.

The Battery energy level has <1Wh resolution which looks great but a battery can change its available energy just by having the battery temperature increase or decrease. Battery energy level changes also includes all accessory energy use.

LeafSpy's efficiency number (energy/distance) has the problem of energy listed above plus the fact that the odometer only changes in 1 km steps. It is not something I would have put in but was requested even with the short comings.
 
Turbo3 said:
calverajarda said:
Hi,
i have problem about consumption. I dont know what is right.
Yesterday driven 26km - car shows 12,4kwh/100km its 3224Wh
With leaf spy at start capacity 16,1kwh, at end 12,2kwh its 3900Wh
Consumption wit Leaf Spy135,1Wh/km - its 3512Wh
Whats right?
I searching true conusmtipon kwh/100km with clima, heating etc.
Thanks.
An exact Wh is not going to be possible. They are all estimates. A battery is not like a gas tank.

LeafSpy uses two different ways to calculate Wh used. One is based on a change in Gids and the other is based on battery energy level changes.

Wh per Gid is not a precise number. The default is 77.5 Wh per Gid but you can change that in Settings/Battery. Also Gids when SOC is high seem to have less energy than Gids when SOC is low. After a full change the first bar goes away pretty quickly compared to later in the drive.

The Battery energy level has <1Wh resolution which looks great but a battery can change its available energy just by having the battery temperature increase or decrease. Battery energy level changes also includes all accessory energy use.

LeafSpy's efficiency number (energy/distance) has the problem of energy listed above plus the fact that the odometer only changes in 1 km steps. It is not something I would have put in but was requested even with the short comings.

Ok, thanks for answer.
Which meter is more accurate for energy/distance? on board meter or LeafSpy kw/km meter? I mean LeafSpy. But both showing consmuption with all accesory, yes?
 
calverajarda said:
Which meter is more accurate for energy/distance? on board meter or LeafSpy kw/km meter? I mean LeafSpy. But both showing consmuption with all accesory, yes?

How granular do you want the data? Do you need a separate readout for each trip/day, or is a month long summary (possibly without many digits of precision) acceptable?

I think in general LeafSpy will give you more accurate (and precise) readings, especially if you are trying to track at the trip or daily level. But you would need to remember to run it each and every time if you are looking to gather data on a larger scale (like a month). For that, I think relying on the car's display is probably adequate. My routine is as follows:

On the first day of the month I note the various parameters in the driver's display (averge mi/kWh, distance, average mph, driving time) and reset all those. Taken across a whole year you can see variations due to seasons, and even the effect of battery degradation and things like different tires, etc.

Each time I charge the car I reset the center console meter. This was actually more useful in my old 2012 LEAF in that it was basically a daily activity, and the center console displayed the daily efficiency as a number--in my 2016 it only shows as a bar graph, plus I don't need to charge my 2016 daily, so the information it conveys is not as useful anyway. The idea behind this is that I could check daily efficiency and compare to the monthly running total and surrounding days, correlating with weather conditions and driving patterns (highway vs. surface streets).

The resultant data is not precise. You only get down to the 0.1 mi/kWh level, but big picture wise, this is probably sufficient accuracy for what I was using the data for.

If for some reason I needed highly accurate data for a particular trip, I would have no qualms using LeafSpy for that.

If you need highly accurate data for some other reason (you are trying to calculate exact costs of electricity), then you probably want to take a different approach altogether and put a meter on your EVSE so you can take into account charger losses as well.
 
calverajarda said:
Turbo3 said:
calverajarda said:
Hi,
i have problem about consumption. I dont know what is right.
Yesterday driven 26km - car shows 12,4kwh/100km its 3224Wh
With leaf spy at start capacity 16,1kwh, at end 12,2kwh its 3900Wh
Consumption wit Leaf Spy135,1Wh/km - its 3512Wh
Whats right?
I searching true conusmtipon kwh/100km with clima, heating etc.
Thanks.
An exact Wh is not going to be possible. They are all estimates. A battery is not like a gas tank.

LeafSpy uses two different ways to calculate Wh used. One is based on a change in Gids and the other is based on battery energy level changes.

Wh per Gid is not a precise number. The default is 77.5 Wh per Gid but you can change that in Settings/Battery. Also Gids when SOC is high seem to have less energy than Gids when SOC is low. After a full change the first bar goes away pretty quickly compared to later in the drive.

The Battery energy level has <1Wh resolution which looks great but a battery can change its available energy just by having the battery temperature increase or decrease. Battery energy level changes also includes all accessory energy use.

LeafSpy's efficiency number (energy/distance) has the problem of energy listed above plus the fact that the odometer only changes in 1 km steps. It is not something I would have put in but was requested even with the short comings.

Ok, thanks for answer.
Which meter is more accurate for energy/distance? on board meter or LeafSpy kw/km meter? I mean LeafSpy. But both showing consmuption with all accesory, yes?

I think another way to understand the situation;

This is how I know when its time to change the remote access keypad battery for my garage. When the keypad fails and its Winter time ( Have yet to have it fail during Summer and I am an OLLLLD guy!)

I pull the battery out and rub it between my palms for about a minute. This heats up the battery enough to where it is able to power up and initiate the garage door opener. When I get tired of doing this, I change the battery! ;)
 
hi,

i am currently extensively testing my new leaf which i received yesterday! i am writing a german blog but here is a short high speed highway video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8RuaKMkmGw

leaf spy pro worked well with my european leaf, it seems it never lost connection with my lelink (v1) dongle but i didnt' evaluate the stored logs yet.

@Turbo3: there seems to be a little bug, the "outside temp" is shown in fahrenheit although i have everything set to Celsius. i am using the latest android beta version.

edit: another question, on the tablet display i saw regen values of more than 50kW but i can't see them in the log files? how is that? it only goes to -20596 as max value?
 
0x00 said:
@Turbo3: there seems to be a little bug, the "outside temp" is shown in fahrenheit although i have everything set to Celsius. i am using the latest android beta version.
Go into Settings/Units and select the option to Convert Outside Temperature.

There is no way for LeafSpy to tell the units used as that is not on the CAN bus only the temperature value.

I will need to look into you other question.
 
Turbo3 said:
0x00 said:
@Turbo3: there seems to be a little bug, the "outside temp" is shown in fahrenheit although i have everything set to Celsius. i am using the latest android beta version.
Go into Settings/Units and select the option to Convert Outside Temperature.

There is no way for LeafSpy to tell the units used as that is not on the CAN bus only the temperature value.

I will need to look into you other question.

ah, thank you! i seem to have missed this setting :)


is there a cool way to visualize the CSV files? what do other people usually use or which columns do you use for excel charts? i did some extensive tests and have 2x 2.5MB log files for 2 days and want to visualize my road trip. i am also thinking about a map showing my GPS coordinates with the associated infos but i am unsure how to do that.
 
another question, is it possible to somehow control the PTC heater and disable it via CAN bus (or leaf spy in the future)? in my tests i had no problems reaching 200km (124 miles) on the highway where the outside temperature was above zero. the next day i drove 165km (102 miles) and i barely made it with the 40kwh nissan leaf, the temp was a bit below zero and the heater element often kicked in. i also suspect the PTC heater besides strong wind and other topology.
 
brycenesbitt said:
The android store listing still recommends a different model!

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.Turbo3.Leaf_Spy_Pro
"The previously recommended Bluetooth Konnwei KW902 OBDII adapter is also no longer recommended "
"The recommended one is the LELink available from Amazon."

What recommendation are you seeing?
 
Ok.... when I got my LEAF, Hx was at 99.86% In 2 days, it went over 100% and has never looked back. I am now wondering if it is now a counter of sorts as its now at 115.34% and I had long given up predicting where it will peak.

In fact the pack and LEAF Spy readings have been VERY unusual.

I started

ahr = 115.05
SOH = 99.66
Hx = 99.86

"Every" day my ahr and SOH have dropped (a few times they stayed the same but those generally happened because I drove under 20 miles that day)

While my Hx has risen....meteorically.

Don't get me wrong, I am hardly seeing massive degradation. Current readings

ahr = 114.65
SOH = 99.25%
Hx = 115.34%

Sooo.... is there something wrong with LEAF Spy? Is anyone else seeing this?
 
A number of years ago I asked if you could calculate and display the battery resistance of the Leaf as the LeafDD device does.
If I remember correctly, you added it to your app on one of the screens. Now I can't find it. Have I overlooked something
or did you remove it? If it's still in your app, battery resistance values from the three Leaf batteries, 24/30/40 kWhrs, could
be measured and compared to better understand how battery degradation varies as a function of battery resistance.
Your info section indicates that Hx may be a measure of battery resistance.
 
Your info section indicates that Hx may be a measure of battery resistance.

This is pretty widely known - even I know it. Why are you looking for a measure of internal resistance other than Hx and SOH when they correlate so well with degradation?
 
LeftieBiker said:
Your info section indicates that Hx may be a measure of battery resistance.

This is pretty widely known - even I know it. Why are you looking for a measure of internal resistance other than Hx and SOH when they correlate so well with degradation?

From the other thread; http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=25519&start=40
I posted:


It would be insightful, if those with an '18 Leaf, or the 30 kWh, would use LeafSpy and post the value for the battery's internal resistance.
This would provide a key parameter of their battery chemistries and the thermal effects from multiple QCs/driving leading to battery
degradation. That data (battery resistance) for the earlier Leafs have been posted. If one assumes that the later Leafs have the same
battery thermal resistance to ambient, but a greater series resistance, those batteries would potentially remain hotter longer from
QCs/driving. The implication then, given the lack of TMS, is greater battery degradation than earlier Leafs.

If Hx is an actual measure of battery resistance (ohms or mohms), then assigning a % to doesn't make sense unless the Hx implies
a percentage of a battery resistance relative to 100% SOH. So with Hx equal to 115%, that would indicate battery resistance is now 115%
greater than when it was new - hard to believe. More likely if Hx is related to battery resistance, then it's in mohms and not %.
 
I saw that. You aren't explaining why comparing Hx and SOH among the three pack sizes (or the four or five chemistries) wouldn't accomplish just what you (and many of us as well) want: a way of predicting future degradation of the 40kwh pack.
 
LeftieBiker said:
I saw that. You aren't explaining why comparing Hx and SOH among the three pack sizes (or the four or five chemistries) wouldn't accomplish just what you (and many of us as well) want: a way of predicting future degradation of the 40kwh pack.

It would just provide info as to what's actually happening within the battery causing the effects, i.e. increased battery heat from increased
battery resistance which in turn reduces SOH - less Ahrs - increased rate of change of battery degradation over time versus earlier batteries
as the comparative graphs indicated. If the battery resistances are greater for the 30 & 40 batteries, they will develop more internal heat
and accelerate degradation.
 
We have Hx and SOH measurements for the older packs. We don't have records of the different measure of internal resistance you seek. It seems of little value to measure the oranges in the 40kwh packs and then compare them to the apples in the older packs.
 
LeftieBiker said:
We have Hx and SOH measurements for the older packs. We don't have records of the different measure of internal resistance you seek. It seems of little value to measure the oranges in the 40kwh packs and then compare them to the apples in the older packs.

You're missing the key point. Yes, it's has become apparent that a high percentage of the 30kWhr batteries have a higher rate of degradation.
That most understand and agree on. Most likely some specific parameter about the battery can account for this difference, e.g. potentially
higher internal resistance resulting on average a higher battery temperature during use. If that's the case and the 40kWhr batteries also
exhibit a higher internal battery resistance, then the 40kWhr batteries may also have a higher degradation rate. If so, both of the later
batteries may have necessitated the use of TMS more than the earlier batteries. All we need is some sample data from the 30 & 40
batteries. Based on reviewing Hx values posted, it's doubtful that it represents the battery's internal resistance, other than another
measure of lost capacity.

Here're my data from my '13.

11/20/14 -13,700 miles, 76 mohms per LeafDD, 20 Deg, 73% SOC
11/27 -13,800 miles, 67 mohms per LeafDD, 25 deg, 63% SOC
11/30 - 13,900 miles, 56 mohms per LeafDD, 27 deg, 71% SOC
12/2 - 14.100 miles, 55 mohms per LeafDD, 28 deg, 67% SOC
12/16 - 14,500 miles, 89 mohms per LeafDD, 15 deg, 93% SOC
12/27/14 - 14,800 miles, 103 mohms per LeafDD, 11 deg, 24% SOC
3/10 - 17,400 miles, 60 mohms per LeafDD, 30 deg, 73% SOC
3/14 - 17, 550 miles, 56 mohms per LeafDD, 32 deg, 47% SOC
4/14 - 19,100 miles, 59 mohms per LeafDD, 25 deg. 38% SOC
5/4 - 19,989 miles, 64 mohms per LeafDD, 24 deg. 48% SOC
5/15 - 20,400 miles, 73 mohms per LeafDD, 20 deg. 41% SOC
5/22 - 20,700 miles, 58 mohms per LeafDD, 28 deg. 50% SOC
12/10/15 - 28,000 miles, 90 mohms per LeafDD, 19 deg. 92% SOC
4/5 - 32,000 miles, 74 mohms per LeafDD, 24 deg, 55% SOC
5/16 - 33,700 miles,89 mohms per LeafDD, 22 deg, 47% SOC
5/16 - 33.700 miles, 58 mohms per LeafDD, 31 deg, 76% SOC
10/5 - 39,300 miles, 100 mohms per LeafDD, 22 deg, 50% SOC
10/6 - 39,400 miles, 61 mohms per LeafDD, 30 deg, 51% SOC
10/7 - 39,500 miles, 80 mohms per LeafDD, 25 deg, 56% SOC
10/15 - 40,000 miles, 71 mohms per LeafDD, 27 deg, 45% SOC
10/30 - 41,000 miles, 74 mohms per LeafDD, 23 deg, 66% SOC
12/26/16 - 43,000 miles, 110 mohms per LeafDD, 13 deg, 77% SOC
6/10/17 - 49,600 miles, 89 mohms per LeafDD, 19 deg, 70% SOC

Sorry this discussion resulted in being in this thread. The question for this thread relates to whether LeafSpy actually
provides a direct measurement of battery resistance, i.e. delta V / delta I.
 
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